My blanca sounds not good in spacious rooms (Full Version)

Foro Flamenco: http://www.foroflamenco.com/
- Discussions: http://www.foroflamenco.com/default.asp?catApp=0
- - General: http://www.foroflamenco.com/in_forum.asp?forumid=13
- - - My blanca sounds not good in spacious rooms: http://www.foroflamenco.com/fb.asp?m=356428



Message

hxwhf72752003 -> My blanca sounds not good in spacious rooms (Nov. 19 2024 17:10:36)

I am so confused that my blanca sounds really bad in a spacious room. The sound is incompact and week. But sounds great in small room. My Conde and my Gerundino and my Jesus de Jimenez have the similar situation. Here are some videos in big room.

my Jesus de Jimenez
【【弗拉门戈吉他】原创！一改Alegrias之前偏流行风格的版本，加深弗味】 https://www.bilibili.com/video/BV1K4421Q72b/?share_source=copy_web&vd_source=543497b797fdd19d04afa0542da46580

my Conde
【【弗拉门戈吉他】一段很经典的Tientos】 https://www.bilibili.com/video/BV1AJ4m1p7py/?share_source=copy_web&vd_source=543497b797fdd19d04afa0542da46580

my Gerundino
【【弗拉门戈吉他】续写一段Guajira】 https://www.bilibili.com/video/BV17e411m7yL/?share_source=copy_web&vd_source=543497b797fdd19d04afa0542da46580



hxwhf72752003 -> RE: My blanca sounds not good in spacious rooms (Nov. 19 2024 17:12:22)

quote:

ORIGINAL: hxwhf72752003

The sound is incompact and week.


Sorry for mistake. I mean weak. [:D][:D]



Manitas de Lata -> RE: My blanca sounds not good in spacious rooms (Nov. 19 2024 17:41:56)

sounds good to me , last one seems more faded , maybe mic is far?

At my house on a small room if the door is open and colder , the sound feels way more weak , if the room is warmer or with door close sounds great

Jesus Jimenez sounds very good .

Please do that Alegria step by step



sol512 -> RE: My blanca sounds not good in spacious rooms (Nov. 20 2024 3:20:04)

Firstly very nice playing!

Secondly, they all sound very loud, is the audio raw or you put some effects and makes the recording louder than the reality?

What mic do you use? Is it just iphone or something else?

The Jesus de Jimenez and Conde sound great!

Every time I try or hear a guitar of Jesus de Jimenez I am impressed!!
He is a great builder.



Echi -> RE: My blanca sounds not good in spacious rooms (Nov. 20 2024 7:47:36)

Simple answer is that in a small room the sound waves produced by the guitar are reflected back to the player , which gives him the idea of a loud and full sound. The basses are less directional than the trebles and in a small environement you have a much better return of a full tone.
Sound is spatial.
In a bigger room things change as many overtones and particularly those in the low frequency got easily dispersed and anyway less evident to the player. This is more evident with blancas as cypress is less a dense wood.
Negras are usually stronger when/if they are built for a good projection of the trebles.
Here is the difference between guitars built to play well in big rooms, properly a concert guitar, and guitars less projecting.
This is also the simple reason why players favour certain instruments for concert and other ones for recordings.
Different needs drive to different criteria to judge a guitar



hxwhf72752003 -> RE: My blanca sounds not good in spacious rooms (Nov. 20 2024 8:58:51)

I agree with you. Some room sounds better to me. For the last video,I think that because my phone is not in front of my guitar and Gerundino seems more faded.

My alegrias was not perfect at that time. I changed some notes because the rhythm. [:D]



hxwhf72752003 -> RE: My blanca sounds not good in spacious rooms (Nov. 20 2024 9:02:41)

Thanks man. These videos are original. I use my iphone to record them.
Jesus de Jimenez is a good guitar. When I play through a microphone, the sound is clean and powerful. But sounds weak in a big room for me. Maybe because I am not in front of the guitar. I know that spruce top sounds very different if you in front of it.



hxwhf72752003 -> RE: My blanca sounds not good in spacious rooms (Nov. 20 2024 9:10:14)

Wow. I see. Thank you for your explain Echi. If that's the case, can I say that all the Blancas are not concert guitars? But there are so many good guitar players using Blancas, such as Vicente Amigo, Joni Jimenez, Jose Fermin Fernandez.

My Jesus is from Solera Flamenca and was called a "concert guitar" by them.
When I accompanied for dancers, they think Jesus sounds great while I think it is weak in big room. Maybe it's caused by spruce? When you listen to the front and back of a spruce top guitar, the difference is quite significant.



Manitas de Lata -> RE: My blanca sounds not good in spacious rooms (Nov. 20 2024 9:31:49)

some guitars (even flamenco ) are wider . I think they use it for accompanying (cante/baile), more sound but less something that i cant remember , maybe tone or articulation ( i think its that way)

whats the name of the Alegria?



hxwhf72752003 -> RE: My blanca sounds not good in spacious rooms (Nov. 20 2024 9:51:39)

I didn't name it. This alegrias is mine[:D]



Manitas de Lata -> RE: My blanca sounds not good in spacious rooms (Nov. 20 2024 11:04:01)

I ilke it a lot , for modern flamenco thats a style that i enjoy

those arpeggios are familiar to me , cant remember who , Chicuelo/Vicente?



Ricardo -> RE: My blanca sounds not good in spacious rooms (Nov. 20 2024 12:00:58)

Sounds good, great playing, nice guitars. So Echi says "concert guitar" which is not to mean a guitar you might use to perform a concert, or simply a professional level instrument. It was literally the marketing point for distinguishing between Flamenco and Classical guitars back in the day of M. Ramirez and friends. Why they didn't just say that back then? Cuz some flamenco guys would just use classical guitars and stick a tap plate on, and a cypress skinny guitar might work fine for classical music. Jose Ramirez I marketed the "Tablao" guitar....so it is not like these instruments could serve only one function. IN the flamenco dance world, you see similar distinctions such as Baile for the theatre vs tablao, singers that sing pa tra, or pa lante, or "festero", etc. Generalizations that are not always helpful, as it implies things must run this way or that way.

flamenco "Negras" are concert guitars just a as much as classical guitars, and I have heard terms like "macho" for guitars that have wide sides or long scales, big sound, stiff action, etc.

Here is the deal. Conde guitar have a balanced sound typically, especially the Blancas. In a room other makes with more robust bass notes seem sonically superior. But guess what? In a noisy dance class, every time I brought in some "cannon" powerful guitar, it failed dynamically. Like it sounded fine played normal but it bottoms out. The Conde blanca with its small voice, just gets louder and more clear as you start driving her harder and she cuts through the noisy stomping and palmas like a razor sharp ginsu. I don't totally get why myself, but I feel it is due to the balanced MID RANGE.

As much as I like your other two guitars, and your Conde is low and buzzy by comparison, I can already tell how it would function better in a noisy environment and cut through. If nothing more, your videos reveal the trebles brightly projecting unlike the other two.

The year of the Gerundino? Younger than 1994?



hxwhf72752003 -> RE: My blanca sounds not good in spacious rooms (Nov. 20 2024 12:26:58)

Thank you Ricardo!

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricardo


The year of the Gerundino? Younger than 1994?


My Gerundino is not from Father. It was made by son in 2017. But I sold it because one of my friends like it and gave me a good price. I think that is one of the best guitars I have played with wide feeling and powerful sound.

As you said. Can I say that "Concert guitar" is just a artificial definition and there is no differences between normal blancas and concert blancas？

In addition. I agree with you that good mid-frequency sound is crucial for accompaniment. I used my Conde to accompany for Ursula Lopez and everyone in the workshop liked the sound because it was so clear and was not masked by noisy footsteps when they started Escobilla.



hxwhf72752003 -> RE: My blanca sounds not good in spacious rooms (Nov. 20 2024 12:28:31)

I think maybe El amir. I noticed that there is a arpeggio with the similar chord in his alegrias. [:D]



Manitas de Lata -> RE: My blanca sounds not good in spacious rooms (Nov. 20 2024 14:14:53)

theres on youtube somewhere some explaination , flamenco guitars for solo and guitars more apropriate to baile/cante , even for some palos.

cant remember where i saw that , but if i remember , for cante/baile would be better with a blanca (or whatever) with bigger and wider "box" .
And this include some palos , can recall which and the wood choice , some will sound nicer with cedar , some with spruce , some with dark wood.
Like for Buleria , Sevilhana , fandango one more apropriate guitar and for other palos other guitar choice . For baile/cante or even solo .

The explaination maked sense when i saw it , but i dont know nothing about this theory.
Ricardo must know if this is real or not , since he talked about the "macho" guitar, and his experience



Ricardo -> RE: My blanca sounds not good in spacious rooms (Nov. 20 2024 14:40:38)

quote:

there is no differences between normal blancas and concert blancas？


More so that there is no such thing as "concert blanca". Concert by definition is going to be rosewood type thing to generalize a classical guitar. This is therefore trickier for negras in general, if one really really really wants to distinguish a flamenco "negra" from a classical guitar. Perhaps the neck angle is the best way to do that (since a tap plate on a classical guitar doesn't change the guitar), so a lower bridge can occur, but still both instruments would be considered "concierto" guitars, or "concert guitars". Honestly it is this cypress thing, that makes almost any guitar with that wood NOT a concert guitar (marketing wise), even if it was a classical guitar by design (by percentage this will be rare).

So I would just basically say negra=concert guitar, when the term comes up, since negra might even be not politically correct to use these days, blanca neither.



gerundino63 -> RE: My blanca sounds not good in spacious rooms (Nov. 20 2024 15:05:48)

In my own experience, I tend to play harder in bigger rooms or in open air to get the same sound as I am used to hear at home or is a small room.
This way I have a tendency to “overplay” myself.
This make the sound “bad” to my ears.
As soon I am used to the new environment, or playing outside, it feels and sounds comfortable again.



Manitas de Lata -> RE: My blanca sounds not good in spacious rooms (Nov. 20 2024 15:18:57)

like these?

https://guitarrasramirez.com/en/producto/flamenca-negra/

At the end of the 19th century, José Ramírez I created the “Tablao Guitar” that revolutionized the world of the flamenco guitar, and it was his disciple and younger brother Manuel who later developed this model to achieve our current flamenco guitar, which even today is the reference of modern flamenco guitar.
This model is built with Indian rosewood back and sides, which will add depth and warmth to the sound, as well as a more powerful bass. This type of guitar is most often used for concert solo guitar.

https://guitarrasramirez.com/en/producto/de-tablao-2/





Morante -> RE: My blanca sounds not good in spacious rooms (Nov. 20 2024 15:39:18)

¿Donde está la guitarra??




Manitas de Lata -> RE: My blanca sounds not good in spacious rooms (Nov. 20 2024 21:52:42)

Alegria Metheny



Echi -> RE: My blanca sounds not good in spacious rooms (Nov. 20 2024 22:51:39)

Just to rectify a misunderstanding. With concert -rosewood guitar I meant a negra, not a classical guitar.
I agree with Ricardo the point is the right freq balance : Good Conde are quite effective somehow.



hxwhf72752003 -> RE: My blanca sounds not good in spacious rooms (Nov. 21 2024 6:43:36)

It works. Thank you man[:D]



hxwhf72752003 -> RE: My blanca sounds not good in spacious rooms (Nov. 21 2024 6:45:48)

I think new Ramirez is not as good as old. It sound like a guitar with wire. The voice is light and ethereal. [8|]



hxwhf72752003 -> RE: My blanca sounds not good in spacious rooms (Nov. 21 2024 6:48:38)

Maybe I should have a Negra for big room play lol[:D]



hxwhf72752003 -> RE: My blanca sounds not good in spacious rooms (Nov. 21 2024 6:56:04)

I see. There was a Negra conde when I bought my conde blanca. But I have some bad stereotype of negra. They are too "classical", too “gentle”, too “Thick”.

I used to play a Faustino Conde negra and I didn't like it because it was not easy to play(maybe my finger strength was not enough at that time). Looking back on it now, Faustino Conde negra is a crazy monster. No matter how hard you play, it can withstand it. [:D]



Manitas de Lata -> RE: My blanca sounds not good in spacious rooms (Nov. 21 2024 9:57:01)

i tried one negra once (not conde) , it was great , i still have remorses to not buy it , and the price was amazing... , Were talking about all master woods with several years . square thin neck , lots of power with very nice tone and sustain etc.
Spruce and Indian Rosewood , the only issue (if there was) the weight , was quite heavy.

From time to time i go to local classifieds searching for her



Echi -> RE: My blanca sounds not good in spacious rooms (Nov. 21 2024 10:09:54)

quote:

I think new Ramirez is not as good as old. It sound like a guitar with wire.

Don’t agree with that.
People now look for pre-65 spruced topped Ramirez but some new one are quite the same.
Ramirez is paying an unfortunate historical cycle but should be regarded among the most influential guitar makers ever.
Being a small factory you have a lot of variety ( or inconsistency, depending from your stand point) but you can say the same for other makers.
Some new spruce topped flamenco guitars are great guitars, some other ones are average.
I own a 84 Ramirez everybody wants to buy from me.

It is to consider also that Ramirez has some models with double sides and some other with single sides.



hxwhf72752003 -> RE: My blanca sounds not good in spacious rooms (Nov. 21 2024 11:54:07)

Maybe it's just my personal preference.[:D]



Manitas de Lata -> RE: My blanca sounds not good in spacious rooms (Nov. 21 2024 12:23:56)

please check your PM box



hxwhf72752003 -> RE: My blanca sounds not good in spacious rooms (Nov. 21 2024 14:57:59)

I don't know it. Could you please tell me where I can find it



Page: [1] 2    >   >>

Valid CSS!




Forum Software powered by ASP Playground Advanced Edition 2.0.5
Copyright © 2000 - 2003 ASPPlayground.NET