RE: The new book Santos Hernandez

RE: The new book Santos Hernandez (Full Version)

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estebanana -> RE: The new book Santos Hernandez (Jun. 16 2023 1:38:35)
The Santos book and the Urlik book are both in stock at Brune’ shop now. Later I can pass in some information about Urlik book recordings and measurements

ernandez R -> RE: The new book Santos Hernandez (Jun. 16 2023 18:30:14)
quote: ORIGINAL: estebanana The Santos book and the Urlik book are both in stock at Brune’ shop now. Later I can pass in some information about Urlik book recordings and measurements Oh cool thanx! Looks over shoulder logging into PayBudy hoping the Boss doesn’t notice I’m order “another” guitar book… HR

Estevan -> RE: The new book Santos Hernandez (Jun. 18 2023 2:32:19)
quote: Some of the jewels in the crown- Santos just slays me, he’s so beautiful and yet not finicky intricate. Oh yes...thanks for the photos!

machopicasso -> RE: The new book Santos Hernandez (Jun. 19 2023 5:14:17)
quote: The best sounding guitar IMO was no. 13, maple Manuel Ramirez. It visually reminds me of my Sanchis that everybody loves and offers to buy from me. You mean your Sanchis Lopez 1F Arce?

Ricardo -> RE: The new book Santos Hernandez (Jan. 6 2024 21:10:21)
Finally got the book. Beautiful photos, probably the best of any of my coffee table guitar books. At a glance at the table of contents and flipping through I was disappointed at the slim flamenco section and no Ramon Montoya spread. However, under the large section called “Portfolio”, we find the hoped for spread on Segovia and Montoya. Montoya is on page 136-40, and very interesting to see the negra there (149). However I have to wonder if the inserted note “por Ramon Montoya”, as if constructed BY montoya, might refer to a different person with that same name. Otherwise, it has to mean that he commissioned the guitar, or rather specified the Rosewood/action (ridiculous high [:D]). Both Segovia’s and Montoya's guitars had high bridge set ups, but honestly I could already hear that on those early recordings. Conversely N. Ricardo’s guitar was like a banjo, strings slapping the fretboard. The Santos flamenco guitars I tried at Brune’s museum years ago, had very low bridge set ups, like normal modern flamenco guitars. Montoya has a very interesting statement that was used in his Paris concert (program notes or propaganda), explaining he doesn’t know if flamenco is gypsy or not, and that the gitanos were secretive about teaching the forms, such that he had to learn from blind street guitarists (who didn’t know they were “teaching”). It is interesting to me that Fuenllana was blind, and used that Rondeña tuning….maybe it is a “blind guitarist” thing? LOL! Surprising to see him gift that Leona guitar in 1936, practically right after he recorded with it. Perhaps that was how he could pay his travel expenses (Zayas footing the bills)? Otherwise, it tells me that the guitar was not so special in his collection, in other words, one he was ok to part with.

Echi -> RE: The new book Santos Hernandez (Jan. 6 2024 23:19:41)
quote: Both Segovia’s and Montoya's guitars had high bridge set ups, but honestly I could already hear that on those early recordings Are you sure about this? I have the book but didn't notice this information: Just judging by the pictures I guess is for 8 mm at the bridge and roughly 3 to 3.5 mm at the 12th fret, which btw was a set-up common also for classical guitar at the time. The Montoya 1922 guitar looks to be like one of the first flamenco negra guitars (knowing that the difference at the time wasn't as neat as today).

Ricardo -> RE: The new book Santos Hernandez (Jan. 7 2024 22:04:16)
quote: Are you sure about this? I have the book but didn't notice this information: Just judging by the pictures I guess is for 8 mm at the bridge and roughly 3 to 3.5 mm at the 12th fret, which btw was a set-up common also for classical guitar at the time. I am NOT sure, because we are only eyeballing it. But I typically eyeball every guitar I play and I don’t get surprised by the subsequent feel. So here is my Sanchis, which I feel is comparable to the two montoya guitars at the bridge. The 12th fret is two low (2.5 or so, too buzzy for me but I can’t raise the bone). An 8mm set up means a cigarette won’t roll under there. My 7mm conde would swish a cigarette. The sanchis is the same one I bled all over because of the bridge height. 1cm. The Segovia guitar is probably like 14mm or something. The guitars on page 129 and 146 MIGHT trap a cigarette. The two Santos I played at Brune’s would definitely squish a cigarette (super low, almost too low). The older known flamenco negra is on page 130-1, 1912 M. Ramirez. Sanchis, Montoya Blanca, Montoya negra, Segovia: Images are resized automatically to a maximum width of 800px

Echi -> RE: The new book Santos Hernandez (Jan. 8 2024 12:19:11)
Now, I don't know exactly to what Segovia guitar you are referring to. The main guitar used by Segovia (a 1912 made by Santos currently at the Metropolitan) was used till 1937 and well documented by Richard Bruné. Bruné clarifies the 2 ways used by Santos to determine the bridge: the thing here is about neck angle but generally speaking the bridge for a flamenco guitar was set by Santos at about 6 mm + 2 mm of bone. Classical could be 2 mm more. Segovia aimed for a very high action though and therefore used different saddles for the purpose. Interestingly enough Segovia had more than one word in the design of the Ramirez classical guitars and he asked for a low bridge and a high action. It's always useful to read the Bruné's article about the origins of Spanish classical guitars to have an idea about the average action at the time

Ricardo -> RE: The new book Santos Hernandez (Jan. 11 2024 18:13:15)
quote: ORIGINAL: Echi Now, I don't know exactly to what Segovia guitar you are referring to. The main guitar used by Segovia (a 1912 made by Santos currently at the Metropolitan) was used till 1937 and well documented by Richard Bruné. Bruné clarifies the 2 ways used by Santos to determine the bridge: the thing here is about neck angle but generally speaking the bridge for a flamenco guitar was set by Santos at about 6 mm + 2 mm of bone. Classical could be 2 mm more. Segovia aimed for a very high action though and therefore used different saddles for the purpose. Interestingly enough Segovia had more than one word in the design of the Ramirez classical guitars and he asked for a low bridge and a high action. It's always useful to read the Bruné's article about the origins of Spanish classical guitars to have an idea about the average action at the time Of course the guitars are in the book we are discussing (yes 1912 M. Ramirez). In fact I realize, despite montoya and Segovia having Santos hands-on constructions, it is really MANUEL RAMIREZ, that was the main innovator, his name on the label of both. So what that he did not physically build these, they are his by design. I realize also Amalia Ramirez has an older flamenco negra in her collection, 1911 (again, M. Ramirez label, regardless who built it physically). There is one M. Ramirez in this Santos book where Santos having a hand in it is only conjecture. About action, I am just going on eyeball, and the recordings. High action period. Classical guitar enthusiasts almost never care about bridge height, only action over fingerboard, so it is rare to see these numbers (which triangulate to flamenco players to give true playability impressions before picking it up and trying it.) in printed guitar descriptions, even for sale. I could be wrong I admit, we need to see a ruler in the photo. Anyway, it is amusing to me how I am savoring the photos in the book like they are exquisite beauties, however, most of these guitars are beat to hell. The photo of Montoya with Leona on the album has a guitar in nice condition, but it was obviously not cared for properly by the Zayas family with all those cracks and marks on the back, etc., horrible. One thing I am noticing is the variety in the supposed “Brazilian” Rosewood. Only one guitar is admitted Indian, however, I find it hard to believe people can actually tell all those woods are the same species (D. Nigra) without doing some tests under microscope. How can they tell for sure? Cypress and maple are very obvious, but the non-figured rosewood all looks like Indian to me.

Joan Maher -> RE: The new book Santos Hernandez (Jan. 22 2024 17:13:11)
Yes it's a great book. I got my before xmas and really think it is quality and a great reference for any builder.

Ricardo -> RE: The new book Santos Hernandez (Aug. 12 2024 16:47:23)
quote: Montoya has a very interesting statement that was used in his Paris concert (program notes or propaganda), explaining he doesn’t know if flamenco is gypsy or not, and that the gitanos were secretive about teaching the forms, such that he had to learn from blind street guitarists (who didn’t know they were “teaching”). Actually I realize this whole statement is given in French and translated to English and it is full of curious things that interest me. For example in French “tempo, rhythm, measure” is translated to English as “tempo rhythm and timing” which would have been better said as “meter” or “time signature” referring to compás measures or counts. Does anybody have or know of an original statement in SPANISH? I Would really like to see Montoya’s exact vocabulary. I guess it is possible it does not exist and is only known in French, or was translated by someone in Paris at the time, being dictated verbally. It is clearly stated that he believes the word “Flamenco” means “Gypsy”.

Fawkes -> RE: The new book Santos Hernandez (Oct. 11 2024 2:08:56)
Data!

Ricardo -> RE: The new book Santos Hernandez (Oct. 11 2024 12:19:21)
Sol (G) to "between Sol y Sol sostenido" (between G and G#), is "a minor third". [:D] well I think I am used to the A frequency on most guitars ringing strong and I think I was told the back is ringing at A and the top F# or G. That relation (F# to A) is a minor third....but I still can't hear it much.

Ricardo -> RE: The new book Santos Hernandez (Jan. 25 2026 17:06:34)
Now a video interview to go with the book:

Echi -> RE: The new book Santos Hernandez (Jan. 27 2026 11:35:52)
It’s a great video. These people of Roma Expo guitars are really passionate about guitars. I used to chat with them often in the a Italian Delcamp forum in 2005-2008 when the main guy barely was able to play but was very curious about guitars and Lutherie. He often asked me things (at the time the informations were few really). His passion brought him to organise the fair in Rome (close to Trevi Fountain) with his guitar teacher (Massimo Curciotti, the first guitar player) and today it’s really a nice meeting point for luthiers and players. Unfortunately very few of it is related to flamenco.

Ricardo -> RE: The new book Santos Hernandez (Jan. 27 2026 15:45:26)
quote: His passion brought him to organise the fair in Rome That is cool! Someone needs to convince Martinez to do the same type of book project for the iconic Esteso/Conde Hermanos with emphasis on the flamenco guys. That would be the ultimate coffee table flamenco guitar book IMO.

Echi -> RE: The new book Santos Hernandez (Jan. 27 2026 19:30:32)
https://www.calameo.com/read/007824162dfccac54716d This is the only Orfeo magazine related with flamenco.

constructordeguitarras -> RE: The new book Santos Hernandez (Jan. 28 2026 13:35:51)
If you really loved us you would post a link of where to get it. https://www.mebrune.com/books "Sold Out"

Ricardo -> RE: The new book Santos Hernandez (Jan. 28 2026 16:19:45)
quote: ORIGINAL: Echi https://www.calameo.com/read/007824162dfccac54716d This is the only Orfeo magazine related with flamenco. Cool thanks. 90E back issues and only up to no. 15? Maybe I can find one of those used online (Guitar salon has $129 for 5 issues in a bundle). But pretty skimpy on the flamenco there, I mean I appreciate of course Conde and Barba, Marvi. But that Santos book is so focused and perfect. What I envision would be archival photos and stuff going back to cover the history between Niño Ricardo and Friends up to say the Morao family, and HD close ups of existing historic guitars. Like M. Morao's book biography has some cool pics close up of his Picasso Conde etc., that kind of thing for aficionados of guitar and flamenco culture...I think it would be a good seller as I envision it, since almost every player except Sabicas has been caught with a Conde in their hands in front of a singer or solo at some point until recent times. I think it would be epic, and a cool historical documentary as well in large form like the Guitarrero encyclopedias. Perhaps it could appeal even to aficionados outside of the guitar nerd circle.

Echi -> RE: The new book Santos Hernandez (Jan. 28 2026 20:29:52)
https://shop-caminoverde.com/gb/accueil/91-santos-hernandez-9791090267626.html Here is the Online shop of Camino Verde. Re: the issue about flamenco guitars: I would find it extremely interesting but I don't think the author is informed enough in the matter. Also, the Conde/Esteso are already spoken about in this Orfeo issue while Santos is covered in the Santos Book... I for one would find interesting a book about Marcelo Barbero.

Ricardo -> RE: The new book Santos Hernandez (Jan. 29 2026 17:12:57)
quote: Re: the issue about flamenco guitars: I would find it extremely interesting but I don't think the author is informed enough in the matter. The Orfeo issue has an intro by G. Castro Buendia who does an excellent short summary, so they are doing the right thing deferring to experts (in case you missed it I constantly refer to his 3000page dissertation on flamenco from 2014 lol), and the rest is interviews which are fine. I considered that 5 issue bundle but I am not really interested in the other issues. Still on the fence.

Echi -> RE: The new book Santos Hernandez (Jan. 30 2026 15:50:36)
Well, I meant flamenco guitar making. These books are mostly about luthiers and guitars. Flamenco guitars lutherie unfortunately is a niche. Nowadays I think a book about Hauser would sell way more than a book on Reyes or Barbero or Esteso.

Ricardo -> RE: The new book Santos Hernandez (Jan. 31 2026 14:48:47)
quote: These books are mostly about luthiers and guitars. Flamenco guitars lutherie unfortunately is a niche. the Santos was the special case where we see the importance of several historical figures of both genres putting the Santos on a pedestal. That would be Segovia, Regino, and many friends, then you have Montoya, Javier Molina, Manolo de Huelva, etc, on the other end of the spectrum. I mean, to photograph those beat to hell beauties says it all. After Santos we don't see this, other than maybe Ramirez III, instead the luthiers you name have dominated the Flamenco market. I get that, it and those guys are niche. I also get that Segovia/Bream and Hauser is the next best book seller to the classical guys, with only Escudero messing with that instrument. To me the fact that those beat up Santos guitars prompted enough interest to have large flamenco discussions in that book (some anecdotal I had never heard before this compilation) reveals an untapped market, with Conde at the center due to all the "hype" and historical drama. I mean Leonard Cohen, Al Dimeola, etc, all using the same type of guitar as Manuel Morao I think is interesting to a broader market. They have these books for Strats and Les Pauls so why not? Well, I will continue to dream then. [:D]

Echi -> RE: The new book Santos Hernandez (Feb. 3 2026 16:46:47)
Just an update regarding the books 90 € also the book with the nn. 21-25 of the Orfeo magazines. https://shop-caminoverde.com/gb/books/99-orfeo-21-25-english-edition-9791090267688.html Content is: N° 21 - France Mirecourt, cradle of French lutherie Bertrand Ligier, the cabinetmaker Bastien Burlot, the innovator Simon Burgun, the romantic Thomas Dauge, the autodidact Pierre-Alexandre Bellest, the voyager N° 22 - Germany Gernot Wagner, pioneer of the double-top Dennis Tolz, the successor Friederike Linscheid and Adrian Heinzelmann Stefan Nitschke, faithful to the Spanish tradition Lisa Weinzierl, a young prodigy N° 23 - Río de la Plata The guitar in the Río de la Plata region The guitar in Argentina The golden age of the Uruguayan guitar Ariel Ameijenda, luthier, musician and composer (Uruguay) Alexis Parducci, winner in Granada in 2022 (Argentina) Diego Contestí, in search of balance (Argentina) Mateo Crespi, from music to lutherie (Argentina) N° 24 - Switzerland Philippe Mottet, heir of Christian Aubin and Robert Bouchet Ermanno Chiavi, 6, 7, 8, 10, 11, or 13 string guitars Thomas Zahnd, from jazz to classic The high quality of Swiss spruce Florinett: spruce in the heart of the Swiss Alps Swiss Resonance Wood: Jura spruce N° 25 - Flamenco The origins of the flamenco guitar Conde, a family of luthiers History of Conde Guitars Felipe Conde Jr Andrés Marvi, innovation and perfection René Baarslag, inspired by Bouchet and Marín Francisco Barba and his sons, guitars crafted by six hands

Ricardo -> RE: The new book Santos Hernandez (Feb. 3 2026 18:36:24)
It says shipping is only 9 E...what about to USA? I am assuming the extra 20 bucks at guitar salon balances out pretty much? Also, I have not gotten any mail in a week thanks to the snow here. [8D]

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