Saddle doesn't sit completely on the bridge

Saddle doesn't sit completely on the bridge (Full Version)

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Ziyad H. -> Saddle doesn't sit completely on the bridge (Feb. 23 2020 4:58:09)
Hello there Foroflamenco community, I have a question, I noticed that my Alhambra 7fc's saddle doesn't completely sit on the bridge. What i mean by this is that when you look at the saddle, i see a very tiny space between the saddle and the bridge, Is that normal? I also see some sort of a very small forward tilt of the saddle toward the sound hole due to the fact that it doesn't sit completely on the bridge. Is that also normal? I read somewhere that luthiers make this intentionally to provide some down force and allow for more flamenco sound of some sort. A reply would be much appreciated. Thank you

Ziyad H. -> RE: Saddle doesn't sit completely on the bridge (Feb. 23 2020 12:20:36)
A picture of how the saddle is not completely sitting on the bridge Images are resized automatically to a maximum width of 800px

Andy Culpepper -> RE: Saddle doesn't sit completely on the bridge (Feb. 23 2020 12:35:31)
Unfortunately it looks like someone slightly butchered the bottom of the saddle slot. Hard to tell if it extends down the whole slot or it's just at the end. The slot should be square with the saddle sitting squarely on the bottom. The forward tilt seen on some guitars is likely just the result of time and string pull slightly twisting the bridge. It's not the end of the world but the guitar might work a little more efficiently if you got that fixed. Two things a luthier could possibly do - 1. re-rout the saddle slot to make it square since there is still enough wood to work with, or 2. make a new saddle with the bottom shaped to mate with the bottom of the slot.

Ziyad H. -> RE: Saddle doesn't sit completely on the bridge (Feb. 23 2020 12:45:47)
Now if you look at the right side of the saddle pathway, you would see some sort of a small bulge that extends all the pathway till the end... Images are resized automatically to a maximum width of 800px

Ziyad H. -> RE: Saddle doesn't sit completely on the bridge (Feb. 23 2020 12:52:53)
See if you look closely, you can actually see through the slight space between then bridge and saddle Images are resized automatically to a maximum width of 800px

Andy Culpepper -> RE: Saddle doesn't sit completely on the bridge (Feb. 23 2020 12:56:36)
Yep, that's daylight there. Certainly not ideal.

Ziyad H. -> RE: Saddle doesn't sit completely on the bridge (Feb. 23 2020 13:05:16)
Well that's unfortunate.. I bought this guitar a month ago and just today i realized this.. And also its so hard to find a good luthier to fix it for me..like where I live

Andy Culpepper -> RE: Saddle doesn't sit completely on the bridge (Feb. 23 2020 13:35:05)
Honestly, if you like the guitar I wouldn't worry about it too much. People forget that the saddle is still making contact with the bridge through the walls of the slot. We have a tendency to obsess or worry about these imperfections but again, if you like the the sound and playability of the guitar, don't let this ruin that enjoyment.

Ziyad H. -> RE: Saddle doesn't sit completely on the bridge (Feb. 23 2020 13:47:29)
Well im clearly obsessed about that thing but your words comforted me. I love this guitar so much. Its my first flamenco guitar ever. Thank you for your help, much appreciated. One more quick question, does this slight imperfection affect the action? Does it make it higher?

Andy Culpepper -> RE: Saddle doesn't sit completely on the bridge (Feb. 23 2020 13:57:24)
quote: One more quick question, does this slight imperfection affect the action? Does it make it higher? I guess I don't quite understand the question but the action height was presumably set with the saddle the way it is, so it's not affecting the action. I think you mentioned in your other post that the action was about 2.5 mm which is nice and low.

Ziyad H. -> RE: Saddle doesn't sit completely on the bridge (Feb. 23 2020 14:13:19)
Yeah it is 2.5mm. But i thought that if this issue was not there it would be even lower than 2.5mm since you can see that little space you know..

Andy Culpepper -> RE: Saddle doesn't sit completely on the bridge (Feb. 23 2020 14:16:46)
After a certain point lower does not = better as you start getting too much fret buzz. Most guitars can't tolerate much under 2.5 mm.

Ziyad H. -> RE: Saddle doesn't sit completely on the bridge (Feb. 23 2020 14:21:37)
This was really helpful. Thank you very much.

gerundino63 -> RE: Saddle doesn't sit completely on the bridge (Feb. 23 2020 16:12:52)
Maybe you can put a shim under the bone. That will solve a bit, if not the most of your problem.

Ziyad H. -> RE: Saddle doesn't sit completely on the bridge (Feb. 23 2020 16:44:19)
I don't know were to get one of those and properly install them.. I saw some videos and they require some technique. But thank you for your suggestion

gerundino63 -> RE: Saddle doesn't sit completely on the bridge (Feb. 23 2020 19:58:56)
With a shim I mean a tiny strip of wood that fist between the bridge and the saddle. On that way, the bone makes contact again. Most cigar shops sell cederwood to light the cigars, so there you probably can buy a piece of cederwood.

Ziyad H. -> RE: Saddle doesn't sit completely on the bridge (Feb. 23 2020 21:50:43)
I'll look for it Thanks again, Much appreciated ✋

Ricardo -> RE: Saddle doesn't sit completely on the bridge (Feb. 23 2020 22:21:33)
quote: ORIGINAL: gerundino63 Maybe you can put a shim under the bone. That will solve a bit, if not the most of your problem. I was gonna say that .... also it is almost as if a piezo were designed to seat in that slot.

Tom Blackshear -> RE: Saddle doesn't sit completely on the bridge (Feb. 23 2020 22:56:00)
Ziyad, I once had a woman visit my shop and she complained that her Ramirez guitar had a loose saddle that leaned forward and ruined the harmonics. So I replaced the saddle and gave a lower and better action to the guitar. She played it and then she put the old saddle back; saying that the old saddle made the guitar sound better..........go figure:-)

El Burdo -> [Deleted] (Feb. 23 2020 23:09:21)
Post has been moved to the Recycle Bin at Dec. 21 2022 21:49:34

Andy Culpepper -> RE: Saddle doesn't sit completely on the bridge (Feb. 24 2020 0:53:16)
quote: For example, https://www.stewmac.com/Luthier_Tools/Types_of_Tools/Files/Saddle_Slot_Levelers.html StewMac has thought of everything, haven't they :D It's actually interesting to think about why it's important to have good contact between the saddle and the bottom of the slot. If you're supposed to lose tone and volume from not having good contact, that means that some of the energy from the vibration of the strings is being dissipated without going into the top or is not moving the top effectively. But where is that energy going exactly. Of course I build my guitars with the saddle flush to the bottom of the slot but it would be interesting to do an A/B comparison with this.

Ziyad H. -> RE: Saddle doesn't sit completely on the bridge (Feb. 24 2020 1:17:44)
Thank you for your advices, people. Now i have an idea or two about how to deal with this issue. Im just too afraid to ruin this beautiful guitar. It's really hard to take any decision haha

mrstwinkle -> RE: Saddle doesn't sit completely on the bridge (Feb. 24 2020 7:58:41)
Replacement bone saddles are cheap. Hit up ebay. Keep the original as a template / insurance and sand down a nrw one.

El Burdo -> [Deleted] (Feb. 24 2020 11:28:34)
Post has been moved to the Recycle Bin at Dec. 21 2022 21:50:00

Tom Blackshear -> RE: Saddle doesn't sit completely on the bridge (Feb. 24 2020 13:49:35)
El Burdo, This has already been done before with many ways of contact to the bridge, even a friend of mine used circuit board material for translating sound; even saddles with split groves of contact.

JasonM -> RE: Saddle doesn't sit completely on the bridge (Feb. 24 2020 15:45:05)
Maybe there is a point of diminishing return so to speak. Like the saddle transfers vibration like electricity and only needs so much continuity to transfer adequately. I don’t know I put an undersized saddle I had lying around on my new guitar while I was doing a setup. Basically a 1/8th saddle in a 3/32 slot. I just needed something in the slot temporarily. A few days went by and I forgot about the saddle and tuned up the guitar. I could not tell a difference! The saddle had no business being in there under tension! As far as saddle thickness, I think Trevor Gore talks about minimizing the area of contact between the string and the saddle. Seems contrary to logic.

Tom Blackshear -> RE: Saddle doesn't sit completely on the bridge (Feb. 24 2020 15:58:31)
I know this has been done to death but this is why I developed fine tuning, to adjust these slight differences in tonal value which might be effected by parts of the guitar. Normally the treble end comes out clean and clear with the tuning adjustments. This is what I finally arrived at when I'd tried most other sound techniques under the sun:-)

El Burdo -> [Deleted] (Feb. 24 2020 19:30:45)
Post has been moved to the Recycle Bin at Dec. 21 2022 21:50:20

El Burdo -> [Deleted] (Feb. 24 2020 19:36:34)
Post has been moved to the Recycle Bin at Dec. 21 2022 21:50:44

Tom Blackshear -> RE: Saddle doesn't sit completely on the bridge (Feb. 24 2020 21:30:46)
quote: Hi Tom - Was there a conclusion? Yes, I found that the phenolic material in the circuit board gave a better transfer of sound but that its appearance was not that great, so years later I developed fine tuning.

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