RE: new build for 68' Conde style flamenco (Full Version)

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Tom Blackshear -> RE: new build for 68' Conde style flamenco (Jan. 30 2021 16:31:22)

up date:

Had to change the lining for the top to kerf rather than solid due to a complication, so I ordered port afford cedar for the job.

Some of this pre/cut and shaping from LMII seems to make a lot of sense the older I get. It's kind of like having an apprentice do some of the work for me. Sure seems to save quite a bit of wear and tear on my cutting equipment.

Still working on it.




Tom Blackshear -> RE: new build for 68' Conde style flamenco (Feb. 5 2021 22:25:59)

This is just to stimulate a little chat on the list.

I recently talked with Allied Luthrie about making a neck for the Reyes style, to as exact as possible, for all builders. We'll see how this goes: (A long time coming if it can be done.) Bridges are no longer a problem, as they are already done for the market. Adam says his CNC guy can copy just about any bridge style you want.

A seasoned builder is coming by tomorrow to get started with a Miguel Rodriguez style guitar, off the plan I drew for the GAL. He has pretty much nailed the Reyes plan, producing a very nice credible/saleable instrument.

I'm progressing on my Conde build, a little each day, working to glue on the top in a few days.




Tom Blackshear -> RE: new build for 68' Conde style flamenco (Feb. 27 2021 21:15:31)

Well, it turns out that the cold spell we had has dulled the time frame a little, so I'm working behind again.

So far the guitar is holding its shape and everything seems to be waiting for my hands to get started again.

The top is going to need some adjustments on its bracing before I install it on the sides. I'm going to trim the fan bracing down a little more and shave the horizontal cross bars a little more, to get what I call, a little more sustain in the treble end.

If the bars are too beefed up on the edges, then it can cause a little glassy sound on this particular pattern.




ernandez R -> RE: new build for 68' Conde style flamenco (Feb. 28 2021 3:28:50)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Blackshear


If the bars are too beefed up on the edges, then it can cause a little glassy sound on this particular pattern.


Tom, care to expand on this a little more? By too glassy do your u mean less grawly?

HR




Tom Blackshear -> RE: new build for 68' Conde style flamenco (Mar. 1 2021 2:38:05)

quote:


Tom, care to expand on this a little more? By too glassy do your u mean less grawly?



I have found that it causes a certain sensation of hardness to some top patterns; where re-leaving the edges brings more warmth to the tone.........more musical results.

I've built some Santos patterns that were hard on the edges but this compensated for their lack of projection/volume, even though they spoke in other ways to present their tone. Different patterns need certain shapes

If you look at the present Conde flamenco V you will see the cross bars to improve the tone were cut lower, to where the two center fan braces are higher to stiffen its projection, with the other lower fans to sweeten it.

I don't know who got to this style first, Conde or Gerandino.




Echi -> RE: new build for 68' Conde style flamenco (Mar. 1 2021 8:31:10)

The pattern is Esteso’s and it’s the main pattern used by the Conde in their concert guitars in the seventies and eighties. They also used a 5 + 2 struts pattern (the 5 bars being parallel) inspired to Barbero.

I second Tom’s observation.
I recently shaved a little the 2 outside struts of a classical guitar (in axis with the bridge) with a similar bracing pattern to make it sound more flamenco and I noticed the same. Nothing immoral here: it’s a guitar I made for my son years ago.
Trebles and separation got little improvement also.




Tom Blackshear -> RE: new build for 68' Conde style flamenco (Mar. 2 2021 17:27:24)

quote:

I second Tom’s observation.
I recently shaved a little the 2 outside struts of a classical guitar (in axis with the bridge) with a similar bracing pattern to make it sound more flamenco and I noticed the same.


Which brings us back around to the idea that there are many ways to fine tune guitars.

What I like about my technique is that I can understand it by a layman's term without being a physics professor. I can feel things happening in the wood by making small adjustments with fine sandpaper rubbed on a fan brace.

Naturally, this is not for everyone but a chosen few who want to investigate sound generation in a different way.

Has this technique been done before? The answer is yes, it has been employed by master builders in Spain for generations, but due to much factory involvement over the years, many of these older techniques have been lost due to time saving devices to improve a greater out-put.

There is now a force of sorts to create a design to be the end all for total sound generation without a tweaking process. Some of this certainly comes from the halls of higher academia, but is it necessary to construct a great guitar.

The answer should be yes and no, since there are people who want to know the en er-movement of guitars as well as those who just want to feel its response to a plucked string, or a thunderous rasgeado.




Tom Blackshear -> RE: new build for 68' Conde style flamenco (Apr. 11 2021 22:22:36)

Well Folks,

It appears that I'm out of business, with the possibility that I may or may not finish this current project.

Too many hospital visits and physical set backs to continue to build guitars.

My over all number of guitars built is about 330 instruments over a period of 58 years.

The guitars have enjoyed some collectable status for the past 25-30 years.

Some prices are reflected from early instruments at 3,500 to 50,000 over the years.

Thanks for the memories,

Tom Blackshear, guitar maker




RobF -> RE: new build for 68' Conde style flamenco (Apr. 12 2021 1:39:30)

Take care, Tom, and stay in touch, if you’re so inclined.




BarkellWH -> RE: new build for 68' Conde style flamenco (Apr. 12 2021 2:12:52)

Very sorry to hear about your health issues, Tom. I'll be pulling for you and hope things improve. Regardless, you have made your mark as a luthier. Keep in touch as the opportunity permits.

Bill




Ricardo -> RE: new build for 68' Conde style flamenco (Apr. 12 2021 15:31:44)

quote:



quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Blackshear

Well Folks,

It appears that I'm out of business, with the possibility that I may or may not finish this current project.

Too many hospital visits and physical set backs to continue to build guitars.

My over all number of guitars built is about 330 instruments over a period of 58 years.

The guitars have enjoyed some collectable status for the past 25-30 years.

Some prices are reflected from early instruments at 3,500 to 50,000 over the years.

Thanks for the memories,

Tom Blackshear, guitar maker


Bummer. Well I for one have enjoyed your videos on progressive models over the years and was lucky to play a couple, and including the Pedro de Miguel you fine tuned to good results. Take care sir.




Escribano -> RE: new build for 68' Conde style flamenco (Apr. 12 2021 16:30:07)

Sorry to hear that Tom. As I age, I know the feeling of not being to do what I love some days. I hope you will find some strength to enjoy yourself again, but slowly.




Tom Blackshear -> RE: new build for 68' Conde style flamenco (Apr. 12 2021 21:21:08)

Thanks guys and I will definitely try to stay in touch, as fair weather permits.

It's always difficult to just fade away[8|]

But I have had so many wonderful attachments to this list that it makes sense to hang around.




constructordeguitarras -> RE: new build for 68' Conde style flamenco (Apr. 13 2021 3:13:37)

Jeez, Tom, I wish you well. Maybe you'll feel stronger again and be back at it.




Tom Blackshear -> RE: new build for 68' Conde style flamenco (Apr. 13 2021 19:26:33)

Thank you but what I look forward to now is watching you guys progress to a higher level in the art than has ever been achieved before.

This will all happen if this list openly shares their wisdom freely. When all our little mistakes come together in a finished product, then a miracle happens.




ernandez R -> RE: new build for 68' Conde style flamenco (Apr. 13 2021 21:52:21)

Wow Tom, wish this damn coved didn't have us locked down, I would have my ass down there ASAP and help you wrap up that guitar and get you going on a couple more.

I hope you understand that your legacy of over 300 guitars will forever live, no one can take that from you or the gift of knowing a few generations to come and more will make music on bits of wood and glue you scraped and shaped into harmony with your human hands. Olé Sr. Blackshear, Olé!

HR



quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Blackshear

up date:

Had to change the lining for the top to kerf rather than solid due to a complication, so I ordered port afford cedar for the job.

Some of this pre/cut and shaping from LMII seems to make a lot of sense the older I get. It's kind of like having an apprentice do some of the work for me. Sure seems to save quite a bit of wear and tear on my cutting equipment.

Still working on it.




Tom Blackshear -> RE: new build for 68' Conde style flamenco (Apr. 14 2021 16:00:55)

quote:

I hope you understand that your legacy of over 300 guitars will forever live,


Perhaps but there are many other stories; one about Sabicas that I heard, can't remember from who, that the company that hired him to record an album used to pay him a certain amount of money upon completion, since he didn't trust any kind of royalties for his work.

And his fee for most of his concerts was $6,000 toward the end of his career. At least, this is what was charged for his last San Antonio concert.




Ricardo -> RE: new build for 68' Conde style flamenco (Apr. 15 2021 5:12:02)

quote:

$6,000


Jeez! That is almost double my fee!!![:D]




gerundino63 -> RE: new build for 68' Conde style flamenco (Apr. 15 2021 10:46:56)

Stay strong Tom.
All the best, and, stay in touch if you wish and can. Always appreciate your posts




Tom Blackshear -> RE: new build for 68' Conde style flamenco (Apr. 18 2021 16:54:35)

Mil Gracias everyone,

This forum seems to be the only chat list with as much information about flamenco guitars and their place in history. Over time I think this list has developed into a cohesive program of thought to expound upon a deeper search for what makes a guitar tick.

To my way of thinking, I don't believe that any builder has an edge with innate sensibilities but being driven to search for the right path and find the way to expound his building practice.. This can be had by guitar makers getting together and sharing information; especially from those who have a gift of sharing what they know with others.

This started with me trying to make money with building rather than very few playing gigs that were available 50 years ago. But today, most students can make a credible first guitar that is as good as what took me 25 years to achieve, with all the current/accumulative information floating around.

However, the problem with first time builds is that some students are satisfied with it and go no further to attain future results. It almost seems that they lose the passion, or just decide that it was too easy and they go on to other projects. Well, I can tell you, it is not easy to gain a life time of accumulated results that go into a fine instrument.




JasonM -> RE: new build for 68' Conde style flamenco (Apr. 18 2021 18:16:38)

Tom Sorry to hear about all the health issues slowing you down. Thanks for sharing all your knowledge and experience here, hope that you can stick around the foro




Escribano -> RE: new build for 68' Conde style flamenco (Apr. 18 2021 19:11:12)

quote:

It almost seems that they lose the passion, or just decide that it was too easy and they go on to other projects. Well, I can tell you, it is not easy to gain a life time of accumulated results that go into a fine instrument.


Talking from a little experience, there is a wealth of information and tools that were just not around when I was young. Now embarking on an electric guitar making effort, I can see where you are coming from. Modern parts, kits, CNC and off-the-shelf components means most don't even make an electric guitar, they just assemble it.

Flamenco and classical are exceptions in this, I am sure, but I am planning my second guitar, as the paint dries on the first and indulge myself in researching necks and my own pickups.

Trouble is, the weather and my health have been against me recently, so I do empathise with you.

All the best.




RobF -> RE: new build for 68' Conde style flamenco (Apr. 19 2021 0:06:34)

quote:

To my way of thinking, I don't believe that any builder has an edge with innate sensibilities but being driven to search for the right path and find the way to expound his building practice.. This can be had by guitar makers getting together and sharing information; especially from those who have a gift of sharing what they know with others.

Well said, Tom.




Tom Blackshear -> RE: new build for 68' Conde style flamenco (Apr. 21 2021 16:29:15)

Since I no longer have time for classes at my shop other then some finish up, I'm open for questions about guitar building, to some extent.

I'll answer all questions if I can, knowing that I'm limited to my accumulated knowledge over the years.

I'd like to see this list prosper with as much knowledge as possible, while I'm still here. There has never been a more opportune moment to share knowledge than at this time.




RobF -> RE: new build for 68' Conde style flamenco (Apr. 23 2021 1:28:13)

Well, one thing that I think could be very interesting to the Foro is how you do the top up style of building. I realize this is covered to some extent in existing videos.

You’ve mentioned you like to build with the top flat, but also mention the use of shims at the heel (and I think I recall something about the lower bout sides) which suggest that there is some level of doming. It seems to me you’re doing something similar to Romanillos or Bogdanovich, but they both build top down, so I’m not sure. I have a pretty good idea of what they are doing, but hearing more about you're technique would be great.

I’ve only built the Spanish top down way and also the North American/Germanic way with separate dove tailed neck to body joins, so it would be interesting to hear about the top up style the way you do it.




Tom Blackshear -> RE: new build for 68' Conde style flamenco (Apr. 23 2021 14:32:29)

Rob,

This issue is covered in my Miguel Rodriguez tutorial, however, if you give me some time, I'll go to the shop and try to take a new video of the process. But it may take some time.

The top is essentially flat but with a raised end block at the bottom that tapers from the bottom end block down around the side about 1/16" in line with the bridge. This gives the back of the bridge a little dome effect but remains flat across the top in front of the bridge.

Reyes raised his neck about 2.5mm at the nut but use your own neck set for your proposed saddle height. Going from the bottom of the sound-hole to the bottom of the top, should remain flat in its center.

I generally shave some wood off the upper bout to accommodate the neck angle; making sure not to off set the sound-hole too much.




Tom Blackshear -> RE: new build for 68' Conde style flamenco (Apr. 28 2021 17:14:01)

Just got a call from a player in California who bought a pre-owned LUCIO Y TOMAS classical from RE Brune. These guitars, only 5-6 built, were replicas of the 1977 Miguel Rodriguez. If you can find one, it would be a great value for money paid.

This model has always been a popular build for me, and I keep thinking that if I get well, maybe I should build it again.............or maybe not, since many student and a few professional builders seem to have found my plan at the GAL[;)]




Tom Blackshear -> RE: new build for 68' Conde style flamenco (May 2 2021 20:01:09)

Don't remember if I mentioned this but GSI has a preowned 1977 rosewood spruce guitar of mine for sale. I appears to be in real good shape, for $3,500........a steal for performing or collect-ability.

Almost forgot to put the URL in.............

https://www.guitarsalon.com/product/tom-blackshear/




chicagoguitar -> RE: new build for 68' Conde style flamenco (May 7 2021 4:16:51)

Wishing you the best Tom! Hope your health gets better. I own #313!




Tom Blackshear -> RE: new build for 68' Conde style flamenco (May 8 2021 20:23:15)

I liked your guitar a lot after I heard Brune play it.

Here is a current video of a good guitarist playing one of Mark Usherovich's guitars.

Mark is one of my very serious students in guitar building. I'm very proud of him.





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