RE: Any fans of Nuevo Flamenco? (Full Version)

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BarkellWH -> RE: Any fans of Nuevo Flamenco? (Jun. 10 2018 1:42:56)

Sabicas would perform solo guitar concerts when traveling to venues outside New York City. Nevertheless, apparently he had a fear of flying which narrowed his traveling and concert opportunities. In those days Carlos Montoya was performing almost constantly in various cities around the country and abroad. It is too bad Sabicas had a phobia about flying, as I'm sure he missed many opportunities to travel and perform.

Bill



estebanana -> RE: Any fans of Nuevo Flamenco? (Jun. 10 2018 5:47:31)

Sure, Sabicas was a non flyer. But how did he get along without the piezo electric guitar? O'preytell?



Richard Jernigan -> RE: Any fans of Nuevo Flamenco? (Jun. 10 2018 6:01:38)

The last time I saw Sabicas was at a solo concert in San Antonio, Texas. I don't know how he got to San Antonio from his home base in New York City. A few years earlier I had traveled from San Antonio to Baltimore MD by railroad, so he might have come on the train. Before and after the concert Sabicas was accompanied by a manager, though I don't know whether he traveled with the artist or was a local representative of the concert agency.

The concert was in the sold out 2000-seat auditorium of Thomas Jefferson High School. Sabicas played without amplification, on an Arcangel Fernandez guitar, according to the printed program. The auditorium, like the rest of the school is in a "Spanish" style. Sabicas buzzed a lot, the only time I had ever heard him do that. Sitting in the front row, you could hear the echo of the notes bouncing off the plastered back wall of the lively room.

[img]https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1725/41805970065_fcfb47dbae_b.jpg[/img]Thomas Jefferson HS by rnjernigan, on Flickr

RNJ



Ricardo -> RE: Any fans of Nuevo Flamenco? (Jun. 10 2018 19:22:50)

quote:

ORIGINAL: RobJe

quote:

“Sabicas plays too many notes. All that showoff stuff is not really flamenco.”


It is interesting that one of the greatest singers Antonio Chacón (1869-1929) was accompanied by Ramón Montoya and then briefly by a very young Sabicas. Both guitarists were accused of using “too many notes”. I remember in my younger days seeing singers really angry about having their flow interrupted by excessive use of falsetas by young guitarists. Usually this was expressed by angry glances or desperate appeals to heaven, but placing a hand over the strings was more a successful strategy!

Montoya is credited with (blamed for?) “inventing” the solo flamenco guitar, probably because he put together all the annoying falsetas he had gleaned from other players and recorded them as a series of solos in 1936 in Paris. To be fair he is also credited with introducing some techniques that are now regarded as standard. Guitarists who came to live and work in London after WW2 usually brought a set of Montoya 78s as their most valuable resource for learning.

No matter how much we express our likes and dislikes in this thread it won’t make much difference. Things change. If forced down off the fence I would say that I like guitarists who have “paid their dues” by immersing themselves in the flamenco that has the strongest links to the past. If these guitarists move onto other stuff I listen and often enjoy. Paco and Tomatito fit into this category.

Rob


But Chacón would sing last in a Juerga and say to everybody “ you enjoyed these singers with the other guitarists but now I will sing with montoya and you will all cry...”. It’s as if some aficionados focused on cante just can’t appreciate a good guitarist and what it adds to the voice or ambiente.... and at this point it’s quite tiresome to keep hearing the same silly opinion over and over when some folks “no sabe a distinguir”



pundi64 -> RE: Any fans of Nuevo Flamenco? (Jun. 11 2018 4:08:26)

When I was in High School, at different times I was lucky enough to have heard Sabicas, Carlos Montoya
and also for Classical guitar saw Segovia, this was at the old, (since torn down) Russ Auditorium in San Diego, CA. I feel very privileged to have heard
all three of these artists live.



JasonM -> RE: Any fans of Nuevo Flamenco? (Jun. 11 2018 14:56:00)

I love the way a good Neuvo flamenco guitarist shapes a cantoar with lots of fancy chords and rhythmic style. Makes all the difference.



BarkellWH -> RE: Any fans of Nuevo Flamenco? (Jun. 11 2018 14:58:02)

quote:

When I was in High School, at different times I was lucky enough to have heard Sabicas, Carlos Montoya
and also for Classical guitar saw Segovia, this was at the old, (since torn down) Russ Auditorium in San Diego, CA. I feel very privileged to have heard all three of these artists live.


You were privileged indeed. Aside from seeing Jose Greco's group on TV in the late '50s (a very young Paco de Lucia played with Greco's group) I first got into flamenco guitar in Phoenix, Arizona at the age of 17 with vinyl albums by Carlos Montoya in 1960. That same year I was privileged to attend a solo guitar concert by Carlos in Phoenix. Subsequently over the years I attended two more concerts by Carlos. And in 1982 I attended a classical concert by Segovia at the Kennedy Center in Washington, DC.

I regret that I never attended a live performance by Sabicas. Sabicas was, and is, my favorite flamenco guitarist, but he did not travel much (noted by my comment above that he apparently had a fear of flying), and he never performed at any place I happened to be at the time. I have vinyl albums and CDs by Sabicas, but I would have loved to see him perform live.

As much as I enjoy cante accompanied by guitar, I still treasure those early performances back in the '60s to the early '80s featuring solo guitar.

Bill



El Burdo -> RE: Any fans of Nuevo Flamenco? (Jun. 11 2018 19:44:22)

Hi Jason - is that the role of the guitarist though? To shape the singer? If a guitarist is playing jazz in a small ensemble, they would respond to the soloist and not direct them. There would be 'some looks', even 'some violence after the gig' if they directed the player.



JasonM -> RE: Any fans of Nuevo Flamenco? (Jun. 12 2018 2:31:24)

I agree with you El Burdo. What I meant to say is that a good accompaniment can add to the overall mood and flavor of the singer without getting in the way. With flamenco the guitarist is a big component of the music, unlike maybe a jazz ensemble rhythm player who has to stay out of the way of the bass player and the lead and mind as well not even be there until it’s their turn to play.



Leñador -> RE: Any fans of Nuevo Flamenco? (Jun. 12 2018 3:33:45)

Yeah I get what JasonM is saying, it's not that they're leading the singer, it's that they're following creates more interesting textures to compliment the singers leading.



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