At what point does it stop being "flamenco"? (Full Version)

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soclydeza85 -> At what point does it stop being "flamenco"? (Apr. 5 2017 4:42:50)

I'm still getting a handle on general flamenco structure. I know compas is very important, as well as technique (you can't play in 4/4 with a pick and call it flamenco), but at what point(s) does flamenco end and another style begin?



Leñador -> RE: At what point does it stop being "flamenco"? (Apr. 5 2017 5:00:52)

When the cantaor can't identify the palo.



estebanana -> RE: At what point does it stop being "flamenco"? (Apr. 5 2017 7:24:42)

When the member 'PeakCrackers' decides. The decider.



JohnWalshGuitar -> RE: At what point does it stop being "flamenco"? (Apr. 5 2017 9:04:46)

Lenny, that could equally just be a case of the singer needing to educate himself. I've seen and met plenty of singers in Spain who only sing and really know a few palos.
Singers aren't all the be all and end all ya know [;)]



Piwin -> RE: At what point does it stop being "flamenco"? (Apr. 5 2017 9:10:27)

I remember playing Sabicas's Zapateado en Re during a lull at the pena. One guy told me to stop messing around with that classical sh*t and play some flamenco...
[&:]



Ricardo -> RE: At what point does it stop being "flamenco"? (Apr. 5 2017 10:43:31)

quote:

ORIGINAL: soclydeza85

I'm still getting a handle on general flamenco structure. I know compas is very important, as well as technique (you can't play in 4/4 with a pick and call it flamenco), but at what point(s) does flamenco end and another style begin?


If one is to make a deliberate fusion of styles, the elements of each style should be clearly identified. For example "Chiquito" by Paco de Lucia....the melody is Anda Jaleo a la Garcia Lorca...the compas is Alegrias or Solea por Bulerias (as opposed to the original setting of the melody por bulerias), but the harmonies used are pretty "jazzy" if you will, and then the section of chord progression having nothing to do with the main melody is a "chart" of chords over which improvisations are made, very much from "jazz school".

So that is one example, but as you see it comes down to specifics.



rombsix -> RE: At what point does it stop being "flamenco"? (Apr. 5 2017 12:57:32)

If it was played by Paco de Lucia, then it's flamenco. [:D] That's what he said. [8D]



Leñador -> RE: At what point does it stop being "flamenco"? (Apr. 5 2017 13:19:15)

quote:

Singers aren't all the be all and end all ya know

Shhhhh one may hear you, then we're all in trouble! [:D]
I suppose I was being a bit sarcastic, but it should be identifiable by a real aficionado.



BarkellWH -> RE: At what point does it stop being "flamenco"? (Apr. 5 2017 14:11:50)

As you can tell from the responses to your question, from Lenny suggesting a cantaor, or a "real" aficionado (however that is defined) would know, to Ramzi suggesting anything Paco de Lucia plays is flamenco, there is no defined point at which flamenco ends and another "style" begins. I would wager that if you got a group of "real" aficionados in a room, they would not agree on when flamenco has gone off a cliff and become something else. We can all agree on "core" flamenco palos and playing, but when you get to the outer edges of becoming an "ensemble" and, as Ricardo suggests, becoming much more "jazz," that's where definitions break down, even among aficionados.

Bill



Ricardo -> RE: At what point does it stop being "flamenco"? (Apr. 6 2017 19:16:37)

quote:

ORIGINAL: rombsix

If it was played by Paco de Lucia, then it's flamenco. [:D] That's what he said. [8D]


No, he said he only knew how to be a flamenco guitarist...not that he didn't attempt to play other music, AS a flamenco guitarist. He also admits trashing falsetas that were not "flamenco" enough for his own taste.



Erik van Goch -> RE: At what point does it stop being "flamenco"? (Apr. 6 2017 21:47:48)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricardo

No, he said he only knew how to be a flamenco guitarist...

If i'm not mistaken he also said something like "i call everything i like "flamenco" (wether it was actual flamenco, Bach, Chick Corea or whatever touched his heart :-).



Miguel de Maria -> RE: At what point does it stop being "flamenco"? (Apr. 6 2017 22:08:15)

To truly approved as flamenco, you must submit a recording to the Office of Flamenco Purity (OFP), located somewhere in Jerez, but only the locals know where for sure. It it also speculated that the OFP is actually located on the internet and consists of a virtual Star Chamber of disinterested foreign judges.



rombsix -> RE: At what point does it stop being "flamenco"? (Apr. 6 2017 22:15:53)

quote:

To truly approved as flamenco, you must submit a recording to the Office of Flamenco Purity (OFP), located somewhere in Jerez, but only the locals know where for sure. It it also speculated that the OFP is actually located on the internet and consists of a virtual Star Chamber of disinterested foreign judges.


AKA the flamenco police.



Miguel de Maria -> RE: At what point does it stop being "flamenco"? (Apr. 7 2017 5:40:51)

AKA InterFlamenPol



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