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You cannot start an Alegrias falseta on six.

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what about cante?

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I sometimes see someone starting Alegrias at 12, sometimes at 1 . Same with Bulerias.

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what about cante?

If this were a foro flamenco, instead of a foro flamenco guitar, this thread would not even exist

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If we were all Sapnish we'd be too lazy to post.
I kidding I kidding......
There's tons more dancers in LA then guitarists, wonder why dancers don't have a thriving forum....

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Hey it feels good to have a good old-fashioned compás debate here no the Foro!

Here is what I meant by starting an Alegrias falseta on 6.

I play 2 compases of strumming, ending on 10. Beats 11-5 are silent and the falseta begins on 6 with the first G# chord landing on 10. Then come 4 more cycles of 12 in the falseta.
The half compas of silence or tapado is not something I would use every day, but it certainly CAN be done for effect if desired. Those kinds of things can be useful for accompanying baile too.

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"you can't start an alegrías falseta on 6"

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After thinking about what he's saying, I know he's right, with the "you can't start an alegrías falseta on 6"

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Ramon "please just add up the total number of beats in the falseta starting on Six. That's all - just tell me how many beats there are altogether in the falseta alone."

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Andy "the falseta begins on 6 with the first G# chord landing on 10. Then come 4 more cycles of 12 in the falseta."

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Ok, Ramon tiene razón.
After thinking about what he's saying, I know he's right, with the "you can't start an alegrías falseta on 6"
It's a bit tricky, think about it again

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Ramon "please just add up the total number of beats in the falseta starting on Six. That's all - just tell me how many beats there are altogether in the falseta alone."

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Andy "the falseta begins on 6 with the first G# chord landing on 10. Then come 4 more cycles of 12 in the falseta."

Is this what you mean Ramon?

6,7,8,9,10,11,12
1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12
1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12
1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12
1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10

Total 53

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Thank you Orson. So this Alegrias falseta has a total of 53 beats. Remember, Andy agreed we are talking about playing in compas - you have to begin on Six and stay in compas. An Alegrias falseta has twelve beats - or a multiple of twelve - twenty four, thirty six, etc. No matter how you slice it up, fifty three beats is out of compas. So that example doesn't work.

Ramon

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An Alegrias falseta has twelve beats

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ORIGINAL: Ramon Amira

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Ramon "please just add up the total number of beats in the falseta starting on Six. That's all - just tell me how many beats there are altogether in the falseta alone."

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Andy "the falseta begins on 6 with the first G# chord landing on 10. Then come 4 more cycles of 12 in the falseta."

Is this what you mean Ramon?

6,7,8,9,10,11,12
1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12
1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12
1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12
1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10

Total 53

Thank you Orson. So this Alegrias falseta has a total of 53 beats. Remember, Andy agreed we are talking about playing in compas - you have to begin on Six and stay in compas. An Alegrias falseta has twelve beats - or a multiple of twelve - twenty four, thirty six, etc. No matter how you slice it up, fifty three beats is out of compas. So that example doesn't work.

Ramon

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ORIGINAL: Leñador

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An Alegrias falseta has twelve beats

That's where we have the problem, the rest of us believe this is a false statement.

Imagine if a dancer was dancing solo keeping the compas, you could start your falseta at THEIR 6 no problem.

Andys falseta has 53 beats, the other 43 beats can be "rhythm playing" to keep compas, that could be tapao, resting, strumming, a dancers feet, doesn't matter…..

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An Alegrias falseta has twelve beats - or a multiple of twelve - twenty four, thirty six, etc. No matter how you slice it up, fifty three beats is out of compas.

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An Alegrias falseta has twelve beats

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in PDL track Barrio La Viña there are, I think, at least 3 examples of media compás.
After the first media compás he must then be starting the following falsetas on 7.
At least one of the falsetas starts on the off beat after 12/6

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for an example of medio compas in Alegrias listen to Paco de Lucia's Barrio la viña, at around 1.40 (the first picado run) he adds an extra six beats.

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That is what St. Martins meant above when he said "Of course you can't start an Alegrias falseta on Six - silence is music too."

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That is what St. Martins meant above when he said "Of course you can't start an Alegrias falseta on Six - silence is music too."

Right now Iam unsure if Iam being part of a major trolling or wtf just happened here.

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Orson said the falseta had 53 beats. I didn't count it - I took Orson's count of 53 beats. Anyway, you can add in a media compas or whatever you want, but an Alegrias falseta with 53 beats is out of compas no matter what you do. In any case it doesn't matter - even if it's in compas it doesn't make the slightest bit of difference to my original point. What I have said is that you can't begin an Alegrias falseta on beat Six. I stand on that statement.

Here is why. If you say you are starting on beat Six, then you have established that there are beats One, Two, Three, Four, and Five -five beats preceding that beat in the compas. These five beats of silence or "rests" are therefore part of the falseta. A silence or rest is an integral part of a falseta. There are hundreds of falsetas that are comprised of a combination of rests and notes.

There is no end of falsetas that include rests, sometimes at the beginning, sometimes at the end, and sometimes any place in the middle. Obviously these rests are part of the falseta no matter where in the falseta they occur, including the beginning, and are included in the compas count.

So by definition, beats One, Two, Three, Four, and Five, are part of the falseta. So the falseta is starting on the first beat, not the sixth. The mistake you have made is this - the NOTES start on Six, but the falseta starts on One.

That is what St. Martins meant above when he said "Of course you can't start an Alegrias falseta on Six - silence is music too."

And just in case you would like to try saying that those first five beats don't count, it doesn't do you any good. First of all, they have to count - you yourself have counted them in by saying you are starting on Six. But even if they didn't count, then what you have called Beat Six is no longer Beat Six, but then becomes Beat One. It can only be Beat Six if it has those five beats preceding it. So either way the falseta begins on Beat One, not on Beat Six.

Ramon

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Anyway, back on topic, here is another example of coming in off the 6'th beat, and I repeat it in the middle too.

http://youtu.be/YtZPNzDvw_0