RE: Picado and hand size. (Full Version)

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mark indigo -> RE: Picado and hand size. (Feb. 20 2014 12:49:17)

quote:

Good picado is simply part of good flamenco guitar playing. It's part of solid musicianship. The problem is it's so hard.

The problem of the difficulty means two things.
First, it takes a lot of practise to master, so it's necessary to learn a lot of falsetas using the technique.... and inevitably to play them, leading to that "overuse" thing people don't like.
Second, that there are a lot of questions that a lot of us have, or have had, about how to do it, how to practise it, how to master it, which means it inevitable takes up a disproportionate amount of space in discussions.

Really I think anyone who has a problem with picado or Conde should just avoid those threads and/or start a new thread about something they are interested in.



guitarbuddha -> RE: Picado and hand size. (Feb. 20 2014 13:03:09)

Grisha introduced an interesting simile. I was excited because I thought maybe the conversation would develop, but alas no.

Just because the same circular argument about picado bores you doesn't mean you have a problem with it. The precise opposite is just as likely.

D.



Miguel de Maria -> RE: Picado and hand size. (Feb. 20 2014 15:12:01)

D, high notes is a big deal to amateur singers. Go to some forums and you'll see that the main newb question is not being able to sing above E4. The second question, posed by the eternal intermediate, vocal version, is how to get the high heavy metal screams. And the third and main question is how to get the "money notes" (in popular music), E4-A4, to sound full and "like chest voice".



Miguel de Maria -> RE: Picado and hand size. (Feb. 20 2014 15:14:29)

quote:

ORIGINAL: aeolus

Picado is a bravdo display not a musical one. it's quien es mas macho with the picado. amusing but pointless.


Aeolus, time for you to post a vid of that Chinese kid you have a "Death in Venice" like obsession with...



guitarbuddha -> RE: Picado and hand size. (Feb. 20 2014 15:45:01)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Miguel de Maria

D, high notes is a big deal to amateur singers. Go to some forums and you'll see that the main newb question is not being able to sing above E4. The second question, posed by the eternal intermediate, vocal version, is how to get the high heavy metal screams. And the third and main question is how to get the "money notes" (in popular music), E4-A4, to sound full and "like chest voice".


I have worked with singers and they mostly make a backside of lines because they try and sing high notes instead of lines. So they overblow go sharp get timid go flat and forget how the line goes.

A well constructed line navigates itself through obstacles leaving the singer amazed that they ever had any difficulty.

Some singers like Elizabeth Schwartzkopf love to make a meal of every obstacle and destroy the lines. And a lot of opera people like this. I try not to think of them as retarded.

People talk about high notes because they are concretely defined. The discussion which lies on the ground can't fall down.



aeolus -> RE: Picado and hand size. (Feb. 20 2014 16:20:55)

quote:

Aeolus, time for you to post a vid of that Chinese kid you have a "Death in Venice" like obsession with...


Well, ok if you insist. but he has grown quite a bit since the earlier vids and what made them so mesmerizing was his tiny presence with such a very high level as a guitarist. Here he plays a tremolo with musicality if not the blazing speed of Trần Trung.




Miguel de Maria -> RE: Picado and hand size. (Feb. 20 2014 16:57:35)

I chatted with a couple opera singers at a gig recently. The tenor told me that Toscanini said, "There's estupido, molto estupido, and il tenore!!"



Grisha -> RE: Picado and hand size. (Feb. 20 2014 17:24:52)

And yet, it's tenors that get all the workout in the opera. Basses have it the easiest.

guitarbuddha, you are welcome to open a new thread discussing that simile that I introduced. I have lately been thinking of these things...



mark indigo -> RE: Picado and hand size. (Feb. 21 2014 0:02:28)

quote:

Just because the same circular argument about picado bores you doesn't mean you have a problem with it. The precise opposite is just as likely.
you mean I don't have a problem with picado? or I don't have a problem with threads about picado? or I don't have a problem with other people having a problem with threads about picado (which anyway now seems to be about opera - muy flamenco)? just what do you mean?



guitarbuddha -> RE: Picado and hand size. (Feb. 21 2014 0:05:05)

quote:

ORIGINAL: mark indigo

quote:

Just because the same circular argument about picado bores you doesn't mean you have a problem with it. The precise opposite is just as likely.
you mean I don't have a problem with picado? or I don't have a problem with threads about picado? or I don't have a problem with other people having a problem with threads about picado (which anyway now seems to be about opera - muy flamenco)? just what do you mean?


Perhaps you could concern yourself more with whatever your problem might be ? I would appreciate that.

D.



mark indigo -> RE: Picado and hand size. (Feb. 21 2014 0:26:23)

quote:

Perhaps you could concern yourself more with what your problem might be ? I would appreciate that.
I only asked what you meant....



guitarbuddha -> RE: Picado and hand size. (Feb. 21 2014 0:33:43)

Choose from the three options you suggested as you see fit Mark.

D.



Miguel de Maria -> RE: Picado and hand size. (Feb. 21 2014 3:20:18)

Grisha,
the anecdote was shared after the two singers admitted they had a lot of problems with timing. Because after, all, singing is hard! and they have to concentrate! But I wonder if you're a bass, G, they're always in great demand, I hear.



ToddK -> RE: Picado and hand size. (Feb. 21 2014 6:55:44)

quote:

singing is hard!


Nope. Singing is one of the most natural things a human can do.

We get derailed as children when our parents constantly "shush" us
and tell us to be quiet. This encourages us to stop using our
diaphragms. We start breathing with our chests, and pushing way
too much air through the vocal folds.

Also, just fyi, there is no such thing as "chest voice" or "head voice".
Its complete and total BS made up by crappy vocal teachers that
have no idea what they're talking about.

ICYDK, my wife is one of the best vocal coaches on the planet.
TK



Ruphus -> RE: Picado and hand size. (Feb. 21 2014 8:16:33)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ToddK

quote:

singing is hard!


Nope. Singing is one of the most natural things a human can do.

We get derailed as children when our parents constantly "shush" us
and tell us to be quiet. This encourages us to stop using our
diaphragms. We start breathing with our chests, and pushing way
too much air through the vocal folds.


Well put!
One unlearns how to you use it.

Even the Callas lost it after a while of not using her singing voice, while together with Onassis.

It is like with swimming. If there be no pause, you´ll know how to do naturally.
Singing, dancing, swimming, drawing, sculpturing are talents in men´s natural range, but they need to be employed.

Ruphus



guitarbuddha -> RE: Picado and hand size. (Feb. 21 2014 10:18:19)

There are, from where I stand, three main barriers to musical development. The refusal to sing, the inability to listen and impatience.

A lack of talent or a challenging physicality may indeed prove problematic but the other three are deadly..... but soluble.

D.



Miguel de Maria -> RE: Picado and hand size. (Feb. 21 2014 14:22:39)

Well, I don't disagree, having a little one of my own, I've observed how easily they can scream for hours. Resonance, endurance, volume, squillo--it's all there. My road in singing has been simply trying to unlearn all the inhibitions and bad habits and get back to the vocal freedom I must have had at birth! But I think most of us have aquired these bad habits, so perhaps it's true that singing does become hard.



ToddK -> RE: Picado and hand size. (Feb. 22 2014 12:10:21)

This guy is using 3 fingers, as well as double stroking, and
getting amazing results.




mark indigo -> RE: Picado and hand size. (Feb. 22 2014 14:57:06)

quote:

Choose from the three options you suggested as you see fit Mark.

you have a fine line in f*ck offs.



Miguel de Maria -> RE: Picado and hand size. (Feb. 22 2014 15:07:03)

Cool find, Todd. He should use a Sharpie and write "Conde" on the label!



aeolus -> RE: Picado and hand size. (Feb. 22 2014 16:08:58)

Regarding Faucher tabs discussed earlier, I have received my 19Euro copu of Morente and I must say it's a rip off. You would think for that amount of money they could provide Guitar Pro transcriptions. Check the right hand fingering . I didn't know one could write that small!


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Ricardo -> RE: Picado and hand size. (Feb. 23 2014 6:56:18)

quote:

and I must say it's a rip off.


Can foro members please stop feeding trolls useful information. Thanks.



mark indigo -> RE: Picado and hand size. (Feb. 24 2014 9:07:33)

quote:

Regarding Faucher tabs discussed earlier, I have received my 19Euro copu of Morente and I must say it's a rip off.
You are paying for him to have a better ear than you.

You are paying for his time sitting down with the record and working it out.

He has been making these transcriptions since at least the 80's, maybe earlier, so it was probably made before he even had a computer.

They used to be cheaper but his sales fell when people started mass sharing via the internet, and he put his prices up to compensate.

If you buy lots of tabs at once the price comes down and he gives you extra free ones.

But you are still better off learning piami tremolo from on Oscar Herrero vid than a tab of Vicente, whatever the format it comes in.[;)]



mark indigo -> [Deleted] (Feb. 24 2014 9:11:18)

Post has been moved to the Recycle Bin at Feb. 24 2014 10:25:27



aeolus -> RE: Picado and hand size. (Feb. 24 2014 11:16:14)

quote:

He has been making these transcriptions since at least the 80's, maybe earlier, so it was probably made before he even had a computer.


It shows. At least if he would have used a softer pencil rather than the nail he used it would help. If he is stuck in the pre-computer age and his product is at the level it is he should show an example of what he offers as fair warning.



mark indigo -> [Deleted] (Feb. 24 2014 13:35:38)

Post has been moved to the Recycle Bin at Feb. 24 2014 13:35:45



Ricardo -> RE: Picado and hand size. (Feb. 24 2014 16:51:44)

There are people who want to learn flamenco, then there are the people who bitch and moan why they can't learn it.



aeolus -> RE: Picado and hand size. (Feb. 24 2014 17:03:41)

Si, maestro.



mark indigo -> RE: Picado and hand size. (Feb. 25 2014 14:01:36)

quote:

At least if he would have used a softer pencil rather than the nail he used it would help. If he is stuck in the pre-computer age and his product is at the level it is he should show an example of what he offers as fair warning.


which would you rather have; a beautifully typeset but inaccurate transcription, or a hand-written but accurate transcription?

think of it as "hand-made"[:D][:D]



aeolus -> RE: Picado and hand size. (Feb. 25 2014 14:43:14)

quote:

which would you rather have; a beautifully typeset but inaccurate transcription, or a hand-written but accurate transcription?

think of it as "hand-made"


The thing is I can't read it without a magnifying glass which makes it hard to play the guitar and hold the glass at the same time. I know--bitch, bitch bitch. But having paid 19 Euros I think I have a right to state my opinion even if the owner of this forum thinks otherwise.

I have nothing against hand made scores. I came across a performance on YouTube of a composition by Gerardo Gandini entitled Seie Tientos and ordered the score. Here is an enlarged fragment:



The performer played from the score-- no mean feat! I would like to have just tried to read through it for fun but it's too small and squiggly.

I'm going to transcribe Morente to Guitar Pro and see how it goes compared to the anonymous tabs I used before.

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