RE: NEW YORK TEACHER PLEASE

RE: NEW YORK TEACHER PLEASE (Full Version)

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Leñador -> RE: NEW YORK TEACHER PLEASE (Jan. 19 2014 18:51:36)
Ouch, I don't understand how he can hear other professionals and put himself on par with them......

mark74 -> RE: NEW YORK TEACHER PLEASE (Jan. 19 2014 19:29:30)
I thought I was the father of flamenco in the midwest

Leñador -> RE: NEW YORK TEACHER PLEASE (Jan. 19 2014 19:51:44)
Aight, I felt bad trashing the guy so hard so I went back and listened again. It IS as bad as I remember BUT, look how he holds the mic, I think he's arthritic, he evidently studied with Niño Ricardo so he's been at it a while... I dunno.... Gabe, check out alzapua falseta at 32:05 and tell me that's not dope. [:D]

mark74 -> RE: NEW YORK TEACHER PLEASE (Jan. 19 2014 20:03:55)
The crowd has no reaction what the hell? Thats why I don't like those kind of venues...better to play in tapas bar

KMMI77 -> RE: NEW YORK TEACHER PLEASE (Jan. 20 2014 5:26:36)
quote: Aight, I felt bad trashing the guy so hard so I went back and listened again. It IS as bad as I remember BUT, look how he holds the mic, I think he's arthritic, he evidently studied with Niño Ricardo so he's been at it a while... I dunno.... I think it's important to remember the time and era guitarists like this guy come from. It was extremely difficult and time consuming for outsiders to learn anything in those days. Many of them had to learn blind. Just a guitar and a record. The lucky ones could afford to travel to spain and have a few lessons every now and again. But we all know how many lessons we need to actually move forward. Imagine no other guitarists around ,no videos dedicated to teaching, no foro and no you tube videos and lessons. We have it so easy that many of us should be a lot better than we are. Someone who has played, promoted, shared, loved and listened to flamenco for as many years as this guy deserves some respect IMO. For him it is a lifetimes work.

mark indigo -> [Deleted] (Jan. 20 2014 10:08:32)
Post has been moved to the Recycle Bin at Jan. 20 2014 10:09:41

edgar884 -> RE: NEW YORK TEACHER PLEASE (Jan. 22 2014 5:27:39)
I really like what you said here KmmI77. Very thoughtful and true. And it makes me want to reiterate that I think we should all watch how we judge each other in life because words are poison. We never know someone else's true circumstances in life and things should be kept light and words chosen carefully ass to not hurt anyone or belittle someone else to make are selves feel better. With that said I do apologize for my quick judgments of Michael and Pedro. My deepest apologies. Edgar. May I better play Flamenco through the kindness in my heart. [:D]

KMMI77 -> RE: NEW YORK TEACHER PLEASE (Jan. 22 2014 9:54:01)
Hey Edgar, Nice post and well said! I was a little defensive due to my father teaching himself to play flamenco during a similar time. I often feel sad that he didn't have the same opportunities as i have to learn. I am however very grateful that he taught me what he knew. It took only 3 years to learn what had taken him about 20. It was a great start though. Especially considering his insistence from the very beginning on me playing in compas. Still he received a lot of joy out of playing and provided others with plenty as well. With regards to words and actions. I too often forget that what i say and do not only effects others but effects me just as much as well. There is not much worse than coming to the realization of the true intent, nature and consequences of things i have done. Whether it is instantly, days, weeks, months or years later. When the realization happens it does not feel good. And although often suppressed, that feeling stays with me permanently to remind me next time.

Erik van Goch -> RE: NEW YORK TEACHER PLEASE (Jan. 22 2014 17:11:48)
:-)

Leñador -> RE: NEW YORK TEACHER PLEASE (Jan. 22 2014 19:28:47)
I hear you KMM and like I said, afterwards I felt a little bad, but this guy I don't think had the same limitations as your father. He talked about living in Spain and studying with Niño Ricardo among other "great maestros".

chester -> RE: NEW YORK TEACHER PLEASE (Jan. 22 2014 20:09:59)
quote: I hear you KMM and like I said, afterwards I felt a little bad, but this guy I don't think had the same limitations as your father. He talked about living in Spain and studying with Niño Ricardo among other "great maestros". Hate hate hate. Are you really in a position to cast so much judgment on everything? You seem to have strong opinions on other people's playing ability and musical taste. What makes you so great? Oh, nothing? Just because you have an opinion doesn't mean it's worth something.

Erik van Goch -> RE: NEW YORK TEACHER PLEASE (Jan. 22 2014 20:14:27)
quote: ORIGINAL: Lenador He talked about living in Spain and studying with Niño Ricardo among other "great maestros". Still you might be surprised how much one can overlook/hear when things are not spelled out to you. ...i'm the living prove of that :-). Before i entered conservatory i only had sound recordings of flamenco (internet didn't exist and the first lesson videos still had to be made..... even flamenco cd's were quite rare yet). But even in close contact with the profs one can still miss more then one spot. At Paco Peña's flamenco course in Cordoba 1 amateur structurally chose to join the advanced group because well.... he came their longer then all the others so if anyone could call himself advanced :-).

Leñador -> RE: NEW YORK TEACHER PLEASE (Jan. 22 2014 21:15:24)
quote: Hate hate hate. Are you really in a position to cast so much judgment on everything? You seem to have strong opinions on other people's playing ability and musical taste. What makes you so great? Oh, nothing? Just because you have an opinion doesn't mean it's worth something. I'm sorry, I seemed to have missed the part of the foro rules that says keep your opinions to yourself...[8\|] But you're right, I hate, I hate a lot. I'm misanthropic bitter and angry, not sure why, just always been that way. Unfortunately for those who don't agree with me it's a part of my personality that I like. If you do something professionally you put yourself out there for criticism. I deal with it at my job as does EVERYONE else in the world so to give someone a pass because they're an "artist" is bullsh. Sometimes in my job I have to make design decisions, there is no right or wrong but I deal with the criticism that comes with the decision I made. It's called maning up and not being an over sensitive pussy. I'm very supportive to new players and amateurs on the foro and only criticize when asked to. But if you're a pro, you're fair game. Every pro on here though is top notch and I personally don't have anything to critize them on. However should some douche bag like Benise etc etc wander himself over to the forum, I'll speak my peace, and back it up too son. [;)] quote: Still you might be surprised how much one can overlook/hear when things are not spelled out to you. ...i'm the living prove of that :-). Before i entered conservatory i only had sound recordings of flamenco (internet didn't exist and the first lesson videos still had to be made..... even flamenco cd's were quite rare yet). I get you Erik, but again, if you're a pro, you're open to criticism.

pink -> RE: NEW YORK TEACHER PLEASE (Jan. 22 2014 21:49:08)
quote: ORIGINAL: chester quote: I hear you KMM and like I said, afterwards I felt a little bad, but this guy I don't think had the same limitations as your father. He talked about living in Spain and studying with Niño Ricardo among other "great maestros". Hate hate hate. Are you really in a position to cast so much judgment on everything? You seem to have strong opinions on other people's playing ability and musical taste. What makes you so great? Oh, nothing? Just because you have an opinion doesn't mean it's worth something. chester, ''Hate hate hate'' Three very strong words which you brandish freely with YOUR own opinionated version of what was said......not sure your opinion is worth jack.....its aggressive and totally unnecessary.....of course my words could be wrong, they are after all, only an opinion, but could be conceived in an aggressive hateful way which in turn could be taken as an act of war like for example invading a country and in turn could result in the deaths of millions.....but , wait a minute that's not what was said at all.....I know let's start again Hi Lenador, my name is chester ....not sure I agree with your comments because...... That sounds better....less aggressive ,in ya face, out there....bit more human Grow up , not meaning to sound hateful and all that. Best pink XX

edgar884 -> RE: NEW YORK TEACHER PLEASE (Jan. 22 2014 22:31:52)
Wow!!!!

chester -> RE: NEW YORK TEACHER PLEASE (Jan. 23 2014 0:08:43)
Clearing up some misconceptions... quote: I'm sorry, I seemed to have missed the part of the foro rules that says keep your opinions to yourself... I never said you're not allowed to express your opinion, I just estimated its worth. quote: If you do something professionally you put yourself out there for criticism. From your clients - sure, but some idiot on an anonymous internet forum talking sh1t is precisely that. I'm really spoon-feeding you here, but the fact that you see yourself fit to cast judgment in public over others doesn't speak well of you. quote: some douche bag like Benise etc etc wander himself over to the forum, I'll speak my peace, and back it up too son. Spelling and grammar mistakes notwithstanding; Oh-Kay [8\|] See my earlier point. quote: blah blah blah, Best pink XX I swear to god pink, that was probably the most coherent post I've seen you write here. What happened?

Leñador -> RE: NEW YORK TEACHER PLEASE (Jan. 23 2014 0:33:36)
quote: From your clients - sure, but some idiot on an anonymous internet forum talking sh1t is precisely that. Sorry to burst your bubble but my work is in magazines and on architectural websites, I've seen it criticized by "idiots" on internet forums. You know what, sometimes I look back and say, "Sh1t, he's right….". Thems the breaks. I never once claimed my opinion is worth more than anyone else's by the way. But since you wanna go there. Here's an idea of how it breaks down. Concerning flamenco: Diego Del Morao's opinion is worth more the Ricardo's, Ricardo's is worth more then mine, mine is worth more then someone who's brand new. Does it mean that persons always right? No, but depending on credentials it carries more or less weight. Being that I've been playing music since I was 12 I feel as though my opinion about music carries "some weight". Anyways, I wish the best to Mr. Hauser but it's quite obvious he's CURRENTLY not in the same class as the other PROFESSIONAL flamenco players. Don't be scared of criticism Chester, embrace it, it's not bad. I put my stupid little videos up and embrace every criticism I get, some I take to heart some I choose to disregard. It's life bro, maybe some day you'll be comfortable enough to put your neck up on the chopping block and post a video, until then, understand you've given us nothing by which to gauge the weight of your own opinion.

guitarbuddha -> RE: NEW YORK TEACHER PLEASE (Jan. 23 2014 0:37:13)
Clearing up some misconceptions... quote: ORIGINAL: chester quote: If you do something professionally you put yourself out there for criticism. From your clients - sure, but some idiot on an anonymous internet forum talking sh1t is precisely that. The key question here seems to be Chester ....... are you a client of Lenador's or are you the other fella ? I mean I know I'm really spoon-feeding you here, but the fact that you see yourself fit to cast judgment in public over others doesn't speak well of you. You never used to Troll you would get a little peeved and vent. Len and Pink are friendly and regular contributors I am genuinely surprised that you are pursuing this tack. D.

Leñador -> RE: NEW YORK TEACHER PLEASE (Jan. 23 2014 0:42:07)
I'm not helping the matter. [:D] Life's been dishing me lemons lately so I just kinda felt like fighting anyways, I'm headed to the boxing gym later to finish blowing off steam, hopefully my next stupid little video is sans black eye. lol

Sr. Martins -> RE: NEW YORK TEACHER PLEASE (Jan. 23 2014 0:44:38)
I have something to confess. I've seen that video a while ago and I wasn't paying much attention so I thought that "the first guy" was someone from that place who decided to show everybody that he new some bits and pieces of flamenco guitar before the real guitar player came along. Ok, now I feel better. [:D]

mark74 -> RE: NEW YORK TEACHER PLEASE (Jan. 23 2014 2:45:46)
I agree with you We joke around about music and I don't take it seriously, because I don't pretend I'm an authority....in fact I don't want to be, I have enough serious **** in my life with my father having died of cancer and my having to try and teach blind kids to do math and deal with my financial stress but if you put yourself out there as an authority you will be seen and you will be judged..you can either roll with the punches and try and learn from them and have a sense of humor about it or you can be total pretentious pussy

chester -> RE: NEW YORK TEACHER PLEASE (Jan. 23 2014 6:02:45)
It seems there's something you're not getting... I'm not giving any opinions here. Just pointing out the crap that's coming out of some people's mouths. quote: if you put yourself out there as an authority you will be seen and you will be judged.. How is being in a youtube video 'claiming to be an authority'? If anything he's providing some people with entertainment. If you don't like it, don't watch. Unless you get a kick out of pointing and laughing... quote: Don't be scared of criticism Chester This isn't about criticism. This is about needlessly badmouthing people. Did you write the guy you called an 'abomination' and give him pointers? Or did you just badmouth him behind his back on the internet? Other people see this and think it's cool, then next thing you know there are a bunch of posts about amateurs from youtube and how much they suck. You don't like it? Move along. Does badly played music offend you so much? You know that even Diego del Morao sucked when he just started out right? You say the world's going to hell. Well, you're part of the people who are taking it there.

mark indigo -> RE: NEW YORK TEACHER PLEASE (Jan. 23 2014 10:39:32)
quote: I'm not giving any opinions here. Just pointing out the crap that's coming out of some people's mouths. you think people are talking crap? that's quite an opinion you have there[8\|]

Miguel de Maria -> RE: NEW YORK TEACHER PLEASE (Jan. 23 2014 14:50:37)
quote: ORIGINAL: mark indigo quote: I'm not giving any opinions here. Just pointing out the crap that's coming out of some people's mouths. you think people are talking crap? that's quite an opinion you have there[8\|] Definitions-- Critique: a detailed analysis and assessment of something, esp. a literary, philosophical, or political theory. Talking ****: something that happens on the internet that does not fall under the above definition

Leñador -> RE: NEW YORK TEACHER PLEASE (Jan. 23 2014 15:24:40)
I didn't critique anyone, I criticized them. I feel like that keeps getting mixed up. I think criticizing peoples work is okay, mine included. Critique is great but I'll take a simple "That sucks.". https://www.google.com/search?q=define+criticize&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en&client=safari People need to thicken their skin, everyone wants to be coddled. This lets give everyone a trophy attitude is lame. Humanity would have never moved forward if we were always such (insert p word here).

Don Dionisio -> RE: NEW YORK TEACHER PLEASE (Jan. 23 2014 18:01:17)
So after all that...Did you ever find a teacher, Edgar?

Miguel de Maria -> RE: NEW YORK TEACHER PLEASE (Jan. 23 2014 19:49:50)
criticizing = talking ** I just wanted to clarify the critique angle because most people hide behind that concept when they really just want to talk **. Sounds like you're up front about it.

Leñador -> RE: NEW YORK TEACHER PLEASE (Jan. 23 2014 20:26:02)
quote: So after all that...Did you ever find a teacher, Edgar? HAHAHAHA, poor Gabe, lol, if it's any consulation Pedro killed it the other night! I thought he was good in those videos but in person he was a total monster. quote: I just wanted to clarify the critique angle because most people hide behind that concept when they really just want to talk **. Sounds like you're up front about it. Indeed, I expect people to do it about me and I am going to do it about people. It's healthy for advancement. Like I said before, I felt a little bad about my first way of going about it because I'm sure he's a good guy trying his best but my opinion about his playing remains the same. If something/someone is highly offensive to me though I'll "talk " aggressively with no remorse. PS Sometimes talking is done in slander or libel and that's not right. I don't do that. Not all ** talking is okay.

pink -> RE: NEW YORK TEACHER PLEASE (Jan. 23 2014 20:48:57)
quote: ORIGINAL: chester Clearing up some misconceptions... quote: blah blah blah, Best pink XX I swear to god pink, that was probably the most coherent post I've seen you write here. What happened?...... ''blah blah blah'' .....You clearly pulled your speciality by putting three words in my post that weren't there in the first place ......much as you did with Lenador's . ''Hate hate hate'' Still you have the satisfaction of knowing the most coherent of my posts was that way because of the words you kindly added. Your input. Thanks Chester for being there so selflessly. Best pink xxx

Mark2 -> RE: NEW YORK TEACHER PLEASE (Jan. 23 2014 22:42:39)
Absolutely correct. And we don't know what the guy sounded like 20-30 years ago when he was likely in his prime. The flamenco scene remains very small in the US. I didn't know MH, but I'd heard of him. Guys who started playing ten years ago and put down guys who were into it 40 years ago just don't know what it was like trying to learn in the 60's , 70's 80's. Even records were hard to come by, then if you slowed down a record, it would drop an octave. transcriptions-there were few, and compared to today's prices, expensive. One guy said he learned compas by smoking weed and taping speakers to his body while he blasted bulerias. He became a very good guitarist. Until Jason moved to the Bay Area in the 90's no one here could do fast picado. No one could really play modern style, much less explain it. Really the only way to learn was to study with someone who knew, and they were far and few between, or simply go to Spain for as long as possible. I've written before when people started putting down Anita Sheer, unless you know people that are in their 50's and 60's who learned when they were young, you have no idea what it was like. As I wrote then, one day in the near future, people will watch videos recorded today by people some of you respect, and they will say how much they suck. I'm not surprised at all that Pedro killed it, but I remain amazed that a guy with limited experience could deduce that he wasn't worthy to teach.......... quote: ORIGINAL: KMMI77 quote: Aight, I felt bad trashing the guy so hard so I went back and listened again. It IS as bad as I remember BUT, look how he holds the mic, I think he's arthritic, he evidently studied with Niño Ricardo so he's been at it a while... I dunno.... I think it's important to remember the time and era guitarists like this guy come from. It was extremely difficult and time consuming for outsiders to learn anything in those days. Many of them had to learn blind. Just a guitar and a record. The lucky ones could afford to travel to spain and have a few lessons every now and again. But we all know how many lessons we need to actually move forward. Imagine no other guitarists around ,no videos dedicated to teaching, no foro and no you tube videos and lessons. We have it so easy that many of us should be a lot better than we are. Someone who has played, promoted, shared, loved and listened to flamenco for as many years as this guy deserves some respect IMO. For him it is a lifetimes work.

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