Mark2 -> RE: Juan Martin vs PdL (Dec. 13 2012 17:36:30)
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late to the party---Paco vs Juan= Godzilla vs. my 15 year old bichon frise I love the guy's post-he's wrong about everything. I've also met J. Martin, and seen him play. A buddy of mine used to live in Spain and study there. His teacher, commenting about Paco Pena said something like it was embarrassing that the guy could get gigs. I consider Pena a very solid player in his style, but he suffered from what some other expat Spainards did-a style frozen at the time they left the source. Be it by choice or not, it is what it is. I can only wonder what pros in Spain would have to say about J. Martin, but I think if they were being candid, it would not be flattering. that he compiled a bunch of traditional material into a method book or three does not remotely put him in the company of the top players, or for that fact, the weaker ones. This wouldn't be an issue if he was unknown, but since he has a career as a performing artist, it's inevitable that he is compared to others in the field. The comparisons are not to his advantage. I don't know where he was born but even guys of the era his playing is drawn from leave him far in the rearview mirror in terms of accomplishment and ability IMO. quote:
ORIGINAL: Ricardo I was having a discussion on a non-flamenco (but) music related board and got on the topic of Paco with some guy on there. Just thought I'd share this guys comments about Juan Martin vs PdL, since Mr Martin can be a hot topic at times: quote:
Well, although I'm not a musician , I know something about flamenco, and although he also did some pop records with electric instruments backing him (like Paco has done), Juan Martin seems to me to be far more of a flamenco purist. The purists of flamenco music (or so I've heard) often have a higher regard for Juan than Paco, even if he is less famous. Even when Juan has experimented with marrying it with other things, like ancient arabic music, or composed lengthy suites of tunes, he has kept the music to a strict flamenco form. To my ears, even when Paco plays guitar according to a strict flamenco form, the way he uses backing musicians often makes the music not 'feel' like flamenco at all and, therefore, it can sound soulless and the whole point of the music is gone. Juan has very rarely been guilty of that sin ('Through a Moving Window', recorded 1988, would be his cardinal offence!) and his playing seems to play more attention to the 'storytelling quality' which is fundamental to all forms of flamenco expression, guitar playing, singing etc. etc. I don't think I underrate Paco. I have several of his records, including a few old ones, and I think highly of him. My feeling as to why Paco hasn't done as much to expand the horizons of flamenco music as Juan is that Juan not only accepts the idea of flamenco as a way of life, but has studied the culture to such a degree, he seems able to raise flamenco musical expression to new artistic heights. Witness his Andalucian Suites album of 1990, or even the old Solo Album of 1985...they're like some pure flamenco poetry. Paco may have been the first to popularize rhumbas and Latin American forms in flamenco, but I've yet to hear something from him that has the same level of musical sensitivity to it as what Juan has done on recordings like these. To my ears, Juan has a greater capacity for expression on the guitar, and can play with finesse as well as he can with passion. But, as you say, this is largely a question of likes/dislikes... Just thought I'd share someone's point of view that is not really a flamenco guitar aficionado or student. I disagree with the guy of course! [:D] But no one can deny that Juan Martin has had a strong influence on the listening public. Ricardo
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