Yamaha CG171 Review

Yamaha CG171 Review (Full Version)

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Kalo -> Yamaha CG171 Review (Feb. 13 2013 18:13:25)
Hi All, I hope this is the correct place to post my review of my USED Yamaha CG171 It came in Monday and was delivered at Guitar Center. Well, I must say I was surprised. The guitar looks BRAND new like it had never been played on, no scratches or dings on the body! The neck is STRAIGHT! While I was at GC I played it in the accoustic room and the notes are pretty clear all the way up and down the neck.. The action isn't bad either, I haven't measured the height yet, but, will do so.. As for the tone, well, I recorded the guitar via webcam and compared it to my Fransico Navarro Student I had TWO years ago... I have to say and maybe this is because I am depserate for a guitar, but, I only noticed slight difference in the tone....The Yamaha isn't that bad... For the money I paid for this guitar, I am going to keep it and upgrade the bridge from plastic to BONE!!! Maybe have the guitar action tweaked just a little as well... The bad side is I will have to spend 55.00 for a set up and 45.00 to up grade... the bridge.. I know some might say, Kalo, just do it yourself, but, I AM CHICKENED, LOL!!! Anyhow, I am at least grateful that I at least have a proper guitar to learn.. Believe me this is a big difference between my Takamine!!!! I will try to post something, soon!!! Oh, and this will probably keep me happy until, I can hopefully, get a handmade Andy Culpepper guitar [:D] Kalo

HolyEvil -> RE: Yamaha CG171 Review (Feb. 13 2013 23:28:24)
Let a qualified person to do that bone saddle. and get them to set it up for you. My old CG171SF had best feel for my left hand, NOT the neck shape (Which is slightly bigger D shape) but more like how to fretboard is, I can use the minimal pressure to push on the frets and with no buzziness. This is comparing to my Eliasson, Macias and De Jong, which all needed more pressure on the left hand to fret cleanly. Enjoy your guitar.

Leñador -> RE: Yamaha CG171 Review (Feb. 13 2013 23:39:45)
I worry the Luthier you go to may not be familiar with Flamenco set up and give you a high saddle. You may want to tell him the exact height you want the saddle at...........There are tons of threads here that go into it, or just make sure he knows what's up with Andalucian acoustic hardcore..........[:D]

Sr. Martins -> RE: Yamaha CG171 Review (Feb. 13 2013 23:55:08)
Remember that regarding the nut you can test yourself if it needs to go lower (open the slots a bit more). Quick and easy, just place a capo at the 1st fret.. if it makes a huge difference in playability, then you probably have a nut that needs some cutting.

Kalo -> RE: Yamaha CG171 Review (Feb. 14 2013 0:13:51)
quote: Let a qualified person to do that bone saddle. and get them to set it up for you. My old CG171SF had best feel for my left hand, NOT the neck shape (Which is slightly bigger D shape) but more like how to fretboard is, I can use the minimal pressure to push on the frets and with no buzziness. This is comparing to my Eliasson, Macias and De Jong, which all needed more pressure on the left hand to fret cleanly. Enjoy your guitar. Hi HolyEvil, What you described regarding the left had as it being the best feel is CORRECT for me as well... Yep, I agree that with regards to the fretboard, I too use minimal pressure to push on the frets and it has no buzz as well..Not even my Navarro felt like this. And yep the contour of the neck is slightly bigger then D shape...At first this worried me, but, I am getting used to playing it and it all feels fine!!! quote: I worry the Luthier you go to may not be familiar with Flamenco set up and give you a high saddle. You may want to tell him the exact height you want the saddle at...........There are tons of threads here that go into it, or just make sure he knows what's up with Andalucian acoustic hardcore.......... Yeah, I hear you Lenader!!! Actually scowered the foro and have tons of prints on how low I want it the saddle dropped...But ya know, I am also wondering if he can look at the old Saddle that is in there and go by that as well....If the saddle wasn't plastic I would just leave well enought alone, but, Garry my repair guy said this guitar will sound even better with bone, and I agree!!! Tonight I will measure the 12th fret Low E and see where it is at... quote: Remember that regarding the nut you can test yourself if it needs to go lower (open the slots a bit more). Quick and easy, just place a capo at the 1st fret.. if it makes a huge difference in playability, then you probably have a nut that needs some cutting. Thanks Rui Martins...Actually the Nut is FINE!!!! I am just going to change out the plastic saddle to bone... Okay, so, this guitar totally works and I am SHOCKED!!!!! Seriously, I owned a Student Navarro and this sounds pretty darn close to one...Maybe it was just my luck...But, this will be a great practicing guitar!!! Kalo

Sr. Martins -> RE: Yamaha CG171 Review (Feb. 14 2013 0:21:07)
Maybe a bit off topic but... Anyone knows if the Alhambra 4F models are a smooth D shape vs "flat D shape that leaves corners that hurt the thumb"?

BarkellWH -> RE: Yamaha CG171 Review (Feb. 14 2013 1:16:48)
Hi Kalo, Glad you found your CG171, and that you are pleased with it. This guitar should suffice to provide you with enough to practice until you decide to purchase a more upscale model. I would strongly suggest you eventually order a great hand-made guitar by one of the luthiers on the Foro, like Stephen Faulk, for example. A finely-made guitar will provide the incentive to play up to its level. Cheers, Bill

Ramon Amira -> RE: Yamaha CG171 Review (Feb. 14 2013 1:50:19)
quote: Maybe a bit off topic but... Anyone knows if the Alhambra 4F models are a smooth D shape vs "flat D shape that leaves corners that hurt the thumb"? The neck of the Alhambra 4F is a "smooth" D - no edges/corners. But if you're thinking of buying the 4F, get the 5F instead. Ramon

Sr. Martins -> RE: Yamaha CG171 Review (Feb. 14 2013 2:07:17)
Thanks Iam trying to decide between the Alhambra 4F (is the orange really bright or more like a brownish color? Its hard to understand with the pics and vids around the internet..) and a Francisco Bros. 20F with a few modifications but based on the model description. Both of them are around 320€ with shipping. Ive played Alhambras (7P, 7C..etc) but none of them were flamenco models, I just hope them to be well setup as I dont want to file another bridge lol

Kalo -> RE: Yamaha CG171 Review (Feb. 14 2013 2:22:25)
quote: Thanks Iam trying to decide between the Alhambra 4F (is the orange really bright or more like a brownish color? Its hard to understand with the pics and vids around the internet..) and a Francisco Bros. 20F with a few modifications but based on the model description. Both of them are around 320€ with shipping. Ive played Alhambras (7P, 7C..etc) but none of them were flamenco models, I just hope them to be well setup as I dont want to file another bridge lol Rui Martin, I hope you get a nice guitar in your price range. If I were you I would talk to prominent Critic!!! He knows his guitar and can really hook you up with one in your price range. From what I understand he inspects all guitars before they go out!! Something to think about! Kalo

Sr. Martins -> RE: Yamaha CG171 Review (Feb. 14 2013 2:26:26)
You guys keep mistaking me for Juan Martin jajaja [:D] Iam portuguese, it wouldnt be practical or cheap to send a guitar from America. I can only receive recommendations from the other side of the atlantic but no guitars :p

rombsix -> RE: Yamaha CG171 Review (Feb. 14 2013 8:37:35)
quote: Okay, so, this guitar totally works and I am SHOCKED!!!!! Seriously, I owned a Student Navarro and this sounds pretty darn close to one...Maybe it was just my luck...But, this will be a great practicing guitar!!! Yayyyyyyyy! [:D]

FlamencoD -> RE: Yamaha CG171 Review (Feb. 14 2013 14:31:27)
Glad you're happy with your new guitar. I have played several of the Yamaha's and one of them played nicely, ie low action and low left hand pressure. The sound quality wasn't up there, but I remember it being OK for the money. Also, remember that comparing sound of a web cam recording isn't going to get you all of the sound quality you would hear in person from the instrument. So it could be there's a bigger difference but the webcam doesn't have the capability of distinguishing enough between two guitars.

Ramon Amira -> RE: Yamaha CG171 Review (Feb. 14 2013 14:32:03)
quote: I owned a Student Navarro and this sounds pretty darn close to one...Maybe it was just my luck...But, this will be a great practicing guitar!!! Thanks for the recommendation. I’m happy you like the Yamaha. It’s the perfect guitar for you at this point, and it will suit your purposes until you can afford – and your playing level justifies – a luthier guitar. But for the benefit of anyone in similar circumstances, who is trying to decide what to buy, I have to point out that there is no comparison whatsoever between the Yamaha 171SF and a Student Navarro blanca. The Navarro is a true luthier guitar, constructed and signed by Marlon Navarro, and it fully looks and sounds like one. It’s apples and oranges both in looks and sound between the two. Ramon

Kalo -> RE: Yamaha CG171 Review (Feb. 14 2013 14:45:53)
Hi Prominent Critic! I totally respect you! You know your stuff... Can you answer a couple of questions regarding the Navarro Guitars?? I was going to go with another one myself, but, last Summer, I bought another student flamenco guitar... Fretting on the left hand was horrible! It felt as though the strings were so tight that you could here my hands make the screeching noise! The was after I had it adjusted! A friend of mine went to Paracho and met Fransico and bought his top of the lineF Franisco Grand Concert Model... Because he bought directly from Fransico, he bought it for half price....He had a luthier lower the action and guess what?? He experienced the samething I did! TIGHT strings and hard to fret even with the action lowered, couldn't move his hands with out tons of screeching like he was fighting it... So, he went to Zavaletta's in Tucson who pointed him to a awesome repair guy and he had to re set the neck in order for it play right... For an expensive guitar, you would think he wouldn't have to do it.... I would be more than happy to give this Yamaha back and grow with a Navarro, but, I am scared!!!!! I do have a 30 day return rate! Maybe, I should PM you and we could talk in detail [:D] I really respect you and your knowledge is quite helpful!!! Kalo

Ramon Amira -> RE: Yamaha CG171 Review (Feb. 14 2013 16:19:16)
Hi Kalo – Don’t return the Yamaha. As I said, it’s the perfect guitar for you at this point in your development. I hardly know where to begin with respect to what you said about Navarro guitars – student and SGC. First, a quote from you: “I was going to go with another one myself, but, last Summer, I bought another student flamenco guitar... Fretting on the left hand was horrible! It felt as though the strings were so tight that you could hear my hands make the screeching noise! THIS WAS AFTER I HAD IT ADJUSTED!” (my caps). The question becomes, why – and how – did you have it adjusted? Was the fretting horrible before you had it adjusted? Or after? You can see the point. I have played any number of Navarro student blancas, and have never seen any of the problems you mention, not have I seen any need for adjustment. A luthier guitar is constructed with a fine balance of numerous aspects, all made to work with each other. It is not infinitely malleable. You cannot change or modify one aspect without affecting the whole. ” A friend of mine went to Paracho and met Francisco and bought his top of the line Francisco Grand Concert Model... Because he bought directly from Francisco, he bought it for half price....HE HAD A LUTHIER LOWER THE ACTION (my caps) and guess what?? He experienced the same thing I did! TIGHT strings and hard to fret even with the action lowered, couldn't move his hands with out tons of screeching like he was fighting it...” It’s the same thing again – in spades. He tinkered with the equation. I have played several of Francisco Navarro’s SGC Reyes models, and I perform on one myself, and I cannot conceive of any reason to lower the action. Mine plays like a dream, and sounds fantastic. So I’m at a loss. I would only suggest that if and when the time comes for you to get a luthier guitar, that you discuss your needs and preferences beforehand with the luthier, so that he can build it to suit you, to preclude any modification after the fact. Ramon

Kalo -> RE: Yamaha CG171 Review (Feb. 14 2013 16:31:43)
HI Ramon, Thanks for HELPING! When I bought the guitar in Texas, (won't meniton any names) the seller said that I would definetly need to have the guitar set up and adjusted in action!!! He said the Navarro makes all his guitar with a medium action!! . When I received the guitar it felt tight before the setup was done! After the set up was done, i could tell the strings were lower, but, the neck just didn't feel right at all.. Not trying to diss Navarro in any way, believe me!!! He makes great guitars at a GREAT price... Thanks again for your input!!! Kalo!

Sr. Martins -> RE: Yamaha CG171 Review (Feb. 14 2013 16:33:45)
I dont understand how lowering the action can make it harder to play... are you sure you're not using the death grip with your left hand? If your action was high and it was hard to play, then you'll have to adjust the strenght you're using on your left hand after you've lowered the action.

Kalo -> RE: Yamaha CG171 Review (Feb. 14 2013 16:42:27)
quote: quote: I dont understand how lowering the action can make it harder to play... are you sure you're not using the death grip with your left hand? If your action was high and it was hard to play, then you'll have to adjust the strenght you're using on your left hand after you've lowered the action. When the guitar came to me it had a medium action and strings felt tight!!! It was hard to play! And even after the adjustment it was hard to play... It wasn't my grip...I couldn't even do vibrato on it because it at all!!! I had previously owned another Student Flamenco Navarro in 2010 which played nice!! Could it be on this last Navarro I purchased have a slightly different neck angel? Like I said, I wasn't the only one that experienced this...My friend who plays professionally also experienced this with his Navarro Reyes model!!! He had Zavaletta's in Tucson look at it! He felt something was going on with it and pointed him to a great luthier! Who had to re set the neck for the strings to feel relaxed....Loweirng the action on it had nothing to do with the guitar being hard to play. Nonetheless, I am not trying to disrespect Fransico Navarro guitars!!! He makes great gutiars.... Kalo

Sr. Martins -> RE: Yamaha CG171 Review (Feb. 14 2013 16:48:36)
Well.. did you try changing strings? Some brands HT feel like rubber and some brands LT feel like barb wire.. just a thought.

Kalo -> RE: Yamaha CG171 Review (Feb. 14 2013 16:52:03)
From what I understood the guitar was strung with Normal Tension!!! And, they were Savarez!!! Now, on my previous Navarro, I played with HT and didn't have a problem...I took them off because my nails from Ras, were getting chafed...LOL!!! Kalo

GuitarVlog -> RE: Yamaha CG171 Review (Feb. 14 2013 17:11:35)
quote: ORIGINAL: Kalo]The bad side is I will have to spend 55.00 for a set up and 45.00 to up grade... the bridge.. I assume you meant to upgrade the saddle and not the bridge. This is for a CG171 or a CG171SF? Here in the San Francisco Bay Area, the last going rates for that work were $35 for a set-up (nut, saddle and truss-rod if applicable but replacement strings are extra) and $75 for an upgrade to a bone saddle. We have some of the highest rates in the US here.

Kalo -> RE: Yamaha CG171 Review (Feb. 14 2013 17:40:20)
quote: I assume you meant to upgrade the saddle and not the bridge. This is for a CG171 or a CG171SF? Yes, GuitarVlog, you assumed right [;)] quote: /Here in the San Francisco Bay Area, the last going rates for that work were $35 for a set-up (nut, saddle and truss-rod if applicable but replacement strings are extra) and $75 for an upgrade to a bone saddle. We have some of the highest rates in the US here. quote: This guitar doesn't have trust rod, it might just have the action lower just a little and yeah, up grade the saddle to bone! Kalo

GuitarVlog -> RE: Yamaha CG171 Review (Feb. 15 2013 15:58:44)
I had installed my own bone saddle and bone nut for my Yamaha CG171SF using pre-cuts that I ordered from Taiwan. Both still needed adjustments and fine-shaping but it cut down on a lot of time versus shaping bone blanks. The strings I use are the Savarez Cantiga-Alliance mixed tension set (hard tension for the basses and normal tension for the trebles). I feel that this set brings out the best tone from my CG171SF. Your guitar might respond differently and you might also prefer a different tension. Enjoy your guitar!

Kalo -> RE: Yamaha CG171 Review (Feb. 15 2013 16:11:17)
GuitarVlog, Thanks for all your help!!! So, maybe I should have him change the nut out as well???? For a cheap guitar, I am really enjoying to practice on it.... And, thanks for the string advice... I am not sure what brand of strings are on it now, but, there is defiently some where on it... It feels like normal tension which I like.... Kalo

GuitarVlog -> RE: Yamaha CG171 Review (Feb. 15 2013 18:57:53)
quote: ORIGINAL: Kalo So, maybe I should have him change the nut out as well???? No. I did it mainly because I wanted to have a matching bone saddle and nut. I installed it purely for aesthetic reasons (and because I had learned how to do it well). There are some who say that a bone nut improves the tone but I certainly don't think it did anything. The original hard plastic saddle was fine after a luthier adjusted the nut action. Is yours made in Hangzhou (People's Republic of China) or Kouhsiung (Taiwan)? Some of the first ones that came out of the Taiwan factory had ebony fretboards. I think they switched to rosewood after the first year of production.

Kalo -> RE: Yamaha CG171 Review (Feb. 15 2013 22:47:50)
Just looked at the label and it say made by Hangzhou, Yamaha Corporation. And, this the fretboard is rosewood... Okay, so I won't change the nut, but, for sure think changing the plastic saddle will improve the sound even more...Oh, and changing the strings can't hurt either [:D] If I didn't think of selling this guitar in the future, I would upgrade the tuners to ebony...But for the money I would sink in, I probably couldn't get it back on a resell... Kalo

HolyEvil -> RE: Yamaha CG171 Review (Feb. 15 2013 23:10:45)
quote: ORIGINAL: Kalo Just looked at the label and it say made by Hangzhou, Yamaha Corporation. And, this the fretboard is rosewood... Okay, so I won't change the nut, but, for sure think changing the plastic saddle will improve the sound even more...Oh, and changing the strings can't hurt either [:D] If I didn't think of selling this guitar in the future, I would upgrade the tuners to ebony...But for the money I would sink in, I probably couldn't get it back on a resell... Kalo Hey Kalo, don't do anything fancy to it. Just bone saddle and get it setup to your liking, lowering the nut would help immensely too.. So 1 - Bone saddle 2 - lower the nut, the shop can either sand the bottom of the nut or increase the slot depth. Bone nut would only affect the open strings, so if you play with a capo or fret a note, it's effect is out of the picture. You can do it if you want, but it's not as important as point 1 and 2. other than this 2 things, upgrading tuners are just being fancy, save that money for your luthier made guitar!

GuitarVlog -> RE: Yamaha CG171 Review (Feb. 16 2013 0:15:21)
quote: ORIGINAL: Kalo If I didn't think of selling this guitar in the future, I would upgrade the tuners to ebony...But for the money I would sink in, I probably couldn't get it back on a resell... I decided that I'd probably not part with my CG171SF since it's already acquired a lot of sentimental value. Besides, it's nice to have a flamenca that I can bring around and not have to worry too much about. I don't think I'd be able to get another one as good as it is for the price that I paid. I did upgrade the tuning machines of an even cheaper guitar to one with ebony buttons (you can click on the pictures in that link for enlargements). Again, however, it's because I learned how to do it and knew where I could get all the parts for about $20. BTW, HolyEvil gives good advice. Just get the saddle replaced, have the nut action adjusted (that's normally part of a set-up), and have the 12th fret action adjusted.

Kalo -> RE: Yamaha CG171 Review (Feb. 16 2013 0:16:19)
quote: Hey Kalo, don't do anything fancy to it. Just bone saddle and get it setup to your liking, lowering the nut would help immensely too.. So 1 - Bone saddle 2 - lower the nut, the shop can either sand the bottom of the nut or increase the slot depth. Bone nut would only affect the open strings, so if you play with a capo or fret a note, it's effect is out of the picture. You can do it if you want, but it's not as important as point 1 and 2. other than this 2 things, upgrading tuners are just being fancy, save that money for your luthier made guitar! Hey HolyEvil!! Thanks for the advice!!! Yeah, I probably will just bone the saddle... I play with and without capo, so, the I will probably NOT bone!!! Yeah, you're right, not expensive tuners, as I will save even more for my handmade guitar [:)] Kalo

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