RE: Rumbas y los demás cosas. (Full Version)

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Message


bursche -> [Deleted] (Jan. 17 2013 21:58:49)

Post has been moved to the Recycle Bin at Jan. 17 2013 22:40:51




Erik van Goch -> RE: Rumbas y los demás cosas. (Jan. 17 2013 22:15:39)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricardo

quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik van Goch

quote:

ORIGINAL: KMMI77

Ericwhydidyoumakethisthreadsohardtoreadwithyour..........scroll=annoying?


How about you delete some of your ................................... and i will delete these ones?


If you also had read the text before and behind that long interruption you might have understand that it visualized the moment were the dancer was starting his escobilla and nothing happened for minutes :-) We were waiting and waiting and he just stood there waiting for inspiration that never came.



Your point was made and it's cute. But I need a microscope to view the Ipad screen. PLEASE EDIT IT!!!!!!!!


It's edited.

I also have a question. Since today the page-presentation of this site on my screen is totally different than before and for the first time i have to scroll horizontally to be able to read the text. Did the foro alter it's settings or have i somehow altered the settings on my computer? Did wrestle with adding a printer yesterday and might have changed settings in the process (to me computers are so much more difficult than bulerias ;-).




Erik van Goch -> RE: Rumbas y los demás cosas. (Jan. 17 2013 22:23:26)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik van Goch


I also have a question. Since today the page-presentation of this site on my screen is totally different than before and for the first time i have to scroll horizontally to be able to read the text. Did the foro alter it's settings or have i somehow altered the settings on my computer? Did wrestle with adding a printer yesterday and might have changed settings in the process (to me computers are so much more difficult than bulerias ;-).


Never mind i see it's only on page 5 and not on the other pages....it was probably a protest illustrating the annoyance of my long line of dots :-)




bursche -> RE: Rumbas y los demás cosas. (Jan. 17 2013 22:41:16)

maximum trolling undone.




KMMI77 -> [Deleted] (Jan. 17 2013 23:59:45)

Post has been moved to the Recycle Bin at May 27 2013 10:27:50




Erik van Goch -> RE: Rumbas y los demás cosas. (Jan. 18 2013 0:52:27)

quote:

ORIGINAL: zata

quote:

I'm surprised to hear you had the impression Moraito didn't ring a bell to dutch public and that they generally expected flamenco to be touristic
here in the netherlands he was already a big name.

It was no impression. I was hired specifically to introduce the show was because the organization wanted the audience to understand who Moraíto and Diego Carrasco were, and their importance in flamenco. Clearly, neither one was known in Holland at that time. The three of us travelled together from Jerez, and both Diego and Manuel talked a great deal about how they would be received.

Maybe because it was their first visit? Still many of us new Moraito from our visits to spain, his records, his video, spanish television and all the posts on youtube.

quote:

The director of the festival had, and still has the prime objective of banishing Dutch people’s misconceptions about flamenco, namely that it’s just clicking castanets, polkadots and sweaty ladies seducing sweatier guys.

Then can you explain why Farruquito and his family did only generated a reluctant applause for a applause fishing (tourist pleasing) bulerias and a standing ovation for a fabulous seguiriyas ? Should one not expect the opposite reaction from ignorant foreigners?

quote:

quote:

if you forget all the wonderful moments you probably shared with him [Diego Carrasco] among friends and only value the performance he gave that night..... would he pass your acid test?

I don’t remember ever seeing Diego Carrasco have an off night. He’s so instinctive, he manages to tap into his flamenco self as easily as most people breath in and out.

quote:

The only one that made me think i was watching tourists stuff was Diego Carrasco


Tourists don’t “get” Diego Carrasco. He’s best appreciated by hard-core flamenco fans.

I checked some youtube video's of him and you seem to be right....the only record i found so far were i like his contribution is the alegrias of Sanlucar. I guess the fact i don't speak the language and only focus on rhythm/tonal expression deprives me from a lot of fun, but musically speaking i can't enjoy him at all. If that makes me a tourist that's fine with me. Fact is that i never concentrate on text (not even when i speak the language fluently) because there are simply to many musical details to enjoy (details that are missed by many others). My mind is set on processing music from before i was born and the very first language i ever learned was the language of a well played guitar (Bach).




zata -> RE: Rumbas y los demás cosas. (Jan. 18 2013 3:39:15)

quote:

(Quote): It was no impression. I was hired specifically to introduce the show was because the organization wanted the audience to understand who Moraíto and Diego Carrasco were, and their importance in flamenco. Clearly, neither one was known in Holland at that time. The three of us travelled together from Jerez, and both Diego and Manuel talked a great deal about how they would be received. (unquote)

Maybe because it was their first visit? Still many of us new Moraito from our visits to spain, his records, his video, spanish television and all the posts on youtube.

I understand now, you're talking about the flamenco community, only a very small percentage of the audience. Of course at that point there was no one in flamenco who did not know who Moraíto was. When you're on the inside looking out, it's hard to imagine (for example) that "normal" people outside of Spain have never heard of Camarón, and Paco de Lucía is no household word either.

quote:

Then can you explain why Farruquito and his family did only generated a reluctant applause for a applause fishing (tourist pleasing) bulerias and a standing ovation for a fabulous seguiriyas ? Should one not expect the opposite reaction from ignorant foreigners?

I don't follow. Bulerías is the last thing I'd expect non-flamenco people to appreciate because it's a compás trip. Farruquito dances the same style for siguiriyas, bulerías or anything else, only the musical backdrop changes. But people who get off on compás can appreciate what he does with bulerías.




Ricardo -> RE: Rumbas y los demás cosas. (Jan. 18 2013 6:56:28)

quote:

I don't follow.


jeeez...he is saying you didn't give dutch audience enough credit and assume the entire lot (except handful of insiders) to be complete
ignorants of what flamenco is and who is involved. He is saying THEY ARENT...they knew what was up and were let down after all and insulted.



quote:

the only record i found so far were i like his contribution is the alegrias of Sanlucar.


And then shame on you ERIK after all for proving zata right...you didn't know what's up. Diego's toque will melt your hagen daas:




ANd edit the last dots on page 5. Estebanana too.




Erik van Goch -> RE: Rumbas y los demás cosas. (Jan. 18 2013 22:37:16)

quote:

ORIGINAL: zata


I understand now, you're talking about the flamenco community, only a very small percentage of the audience. Of course at that point there was no one in flamenco who did not know who Moraíto was. When you're on the inside looking out, it's hard to imagine (for example) that "normal" people outside of Spain have never heard of Camarón, and Paco de Lucía is no household word either.


Point taken.

quote:

quote:

Then can you explain why Farruquito and his family did only generated a reluctant applause for a applause fishing (tourist pleasing) bulerias and a standing ovation for a fabulous seguiriyas ? Should one not expect the opposite reaction from ignorant foreigners?


I don't follow. Bulerías is the last thing I'd expect non-flamenco people to appreciate because it's a compás trip. Farruquito dances the same style for siguiriyas, bulerías or anything else, only the musical backdrop changes. But people who get off on compás can appreciate what he does with bulerías.


Non-flamenco people obviously don't understand the compas of either of these palos but in general highly favor a bulerias over a seguiriyas because they love it's speed and temperament.

The applause fishing part of above quote only applied to an elderly member of the family who had no stage experience and applied a "i did 10 passes... so how about a huge applause right now" strategy. Farruquito himself obviously did a much better job and was already a huge name over here so the creme de la creme of the dutch flamenco community was present to enjoy this rare and unique chance to see him (they can fill a small concert hall if they all show up). The expectations were sky high but i'm afraid the general lack of preparation (and inspiration) did not live up to our expectations that night. I'm pretty sure the over majority of us were able to fallow/understand/appreciate his bulerias very well, but we are not blown away when someone is just doing a good job (that's the least we expect). But every now and then (and not even in every concert) 1 (part of a) piece stands out that really lift things up to a completely different level. That night only the seguiriyas had that rare and extra quality.

The other huge applause was generated when the sound equipment was officially declared dead (after a couple of very welcome drop outs). That really saved the evening because before that moment the guitar was really a disturbing factor (way to much base and delay, completely killing the staccato effect of the fired rasgueados).
Without amplification the guitar suddenly was a 1000 times more rhythmical :-).


PS are you going to see Carmen Linares or Israel Galvan this weekend in Rotterdam?




zata -> RE: Rumbas y los demás cosas. (Jan. 18 2013 23:08:06)

quote:

PS are you going to see Carmen Linares or Israel Galvan this weekend in Rotterdam?


I saw Carmen here in Nimes on Wednesday night, and the review is up at: http://www.deflamenco.com/revista/resenas-actuaciones/carmen-linares-ensayo-flamenco-2012-1.html

I'm not going to the Dutch Bienal this year...the program wasn't my cup of tea, and it begins the day Nimes ends...too long to be away from my kitty.




Erik van Goch -> RE: Rumbas y los demás cosas. (Jan. 18 2013 23:23:10)

28 years ago Carmen Linares and Pepe Habichuela openend the flamenco institute i went to study. I haven't seen her on stage since. Back then that duo was fantastic because they played the same program quite often and Pepe had developed some extremely refined harmonics. Still, other recordings i heard from the same pieces didn't came close to the atmosphere of the recording i made that day (way more inspirational then the official record and the radio concert they gave). I wish i could hear that concert again at precent day (back then i had no idea of the concept compas yet). Obviously i have enjoyed/studied those tapes numerous times.




estebanana -> RE: Rumbas y los demás cosas. (Jan. 19 2013 1:12:37)

Well then I edited my dots on page 5....Ahem!




estebanana -> RE: Rumbas y los demás cosas. (Jan. 19 2013 1:17:38)

quote:

Diego's toque will melt your hagen daas:


Not only that but he has an occasional sense of humor thrown in his playing that is refreshing. Besides being a driving articulate no nonsense power house.




KMMI77 -> [Deleted] (Jan. 19 2013 2:32:45)

Post has been moved to the Recycle Bin at May 27 2013 10:28:21




Erik van Goch -> RE: Rumbas y los demás cosas. (Jan. 20 2013 13:08:54)

quote:

ORIGINAL: KMMI77

quote:

ell then I edited my dots on page 5....Ahem!


Man, what a mission to get page 5 sorted out[:D]

Come on Eric. It's down to you now. Second last post on page 5. Edit required.


I just did and to my amazement that page restored to normal proportions right away...what a relieve :-)

The thing is when i entered all those dot's in my original post about the dancer i made sure it still fitted on 1 line. I guess problems might have started when others commented/imitated those long line, but i'm not sure. It's a good thing i did find some time in between the Dutch Flamenco Biënnale and the IFFR to visit the foro.

Yesterday there was a marvelous concert of Carmen Linares, now i'm gone visit Israel Galvan and there is also a series of masterclasses in CANTE JONDO at my old school with Arcangel and Miguel Angel Cortes.... and lots of other concerts/masterclasses (Isabel Bayon is visiting my old school for a couple of days as well).




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