RE: New album by Vicente Amigo (Full Version)

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tele -> RE: New album by Vicente Amigo (Jan. 10 2013 23:21:59)

It's nice and beautiful, but maybe just a bit too simple and straightforward.



heavymellow -> RE: New album by Vicente Amigo (Jan. 11 2013 0:36:34)




rogeliocan -> RE: New album by Vicente Amigo (Jan. 11 2013 1:19:35)

talk about a curve ball...
I am no expert, it's nice easy listening but not flamenco at all. I still like it but it just loops and loops and will get boring to play... easy come easy go.

I am looking forward to the album the other video is nice too, too bad they cut it when the flamenco guitar comes in. That bit of guitar in the end reminds me of a melody... if I remember I will come back....

I got it, Oblivion - Piazolla
Here is a nice version, I like this Anderson guy, with their odd videos


And sorry if has nothing to do with the thread but this is worth seeing too... what the hell, it's not flamenco anyways.



Ramzi that is cool... AND FAST to post!



Erik van Goch -> RE: New album by Vicente Amigo (Jan. 11 2013 1:45:56)

You spotted those 2 links very well.....i guess Vicente develops the same problem i have...before you know it ends up sounding like Bach, de Lucia, Vicente, Piazzolla, Erik Visser or one of the other people that touched your heart 1 way or the other....

Piazzolla's fabulous tango nuevo quinteto produced the most beautiful sounds that ever entered my ears and the "zero hour" project is my personal point of reference for this universe (both the record and the life performances).



KMMI77 -> RE: New album by Vicente Amigo (Jan. 11 2013 1:49:42)

It just goes to show that Vicente is a such a humble guy, and a great all round open minded musician. Im just picturing him at the rehearsal in the above video saying to the other musicians. This is,

quote:

kinda boring


quote:

but the chord progression is way too predictable.


or,

quote:

It's nice and beautiful, but maybe just a bit too simple and straightforward.



Come on guys, He is having to work in with a bunch of musicians. A nice chord progression with lots of space gives all that room for tasteful orchestration.

He did a great job coming up with that progression IMO. And who knows if he had other melodies that the other musicians already knew, that he had to work around? What are they supposed to play? Some complicated fast falsetas in unison with a key change every 20 seconds to show how cool they are?

Flamenco or not I still prefer it to lots of "traditional" flamenco that's been recorded.



Leñador -> RE: New album by Vicente Amigo (Jan. 11 2013 1:55:34)

quote:

Some complicated fast falsetas in unison with a key change every 20 seconds to show how cool they are?


YES! [:D][:D]
That's an easy way to win my heart at least.....



Bulerias2005 -> RE: New album by Vicente Amigo (Jan. 11 2013 1:58:38)

quote:

ORIGINAL: KMMI77

It just goes to show that Vicente is a such a humble guy, and a great all round open minded musician. Im just picturing him at the rehearsal in the above video saying to the other musicians. This is,

quote:

kinda boring


quote:

but the chord progression is way too predictable.


or,

quote:

It's nice and beautiful, but maybe just a bit too simple and straightforward.



Come on guys, He is having to work in with a bunch of musicians. A nice chord progression with lots of space gives all that room for tasteful orchestration.

He did a great job coming up with that progression IMO. And who knows if he had other melodies that the other musicians already knew, that he had to work around? What are they supposed to play? Some complicated fast falsetas in unison with a key change every 20 seconds to show how cool they are?

Flamenco or not I still prefer it to lots of "traditional" flamenco that's been recorded.


I was referring more to the theory underlying the chord progression -- in some places it's cleverly voiced in terms of the guitar harmonies, but I'm hearing a lot of 2-5-1. It's not terribly difficult to orchestrate something over a 2-5-1 progression. Someone posted a Piazzolla video earlier, and actually Piazzolla had a lot of very harmonically interesting pieces where he had to work with 5 or 6 people in a band. It can work. And actually, the music in the Vicente studio video sounds much more interesting than "Roma". Maybe it's intended to be one of the more 'easy-listening' tracks, which would make sense since it's the one they're using to advertise the album.

P.S. I know this is only tangentially related, but the Brazilian musician Hermeto Pascoal is my personal favorite when it comes to orchestrating harmonically dense music for multi-instrument ensembles. Check his stuff out, it's very good music!



Erik van Goch -> RE: New album by Vicente Amigo (Jan. 11 2013 2:49:12)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bulerias2005

P.S. I know this is only tangentially related, but the Brazilian musician Hermeto Pascoal is my personal favorite when it comes to orchestrating harmonically dense music for multi-instrument ensembles. Check his stuff out, it's very good music!


Thanks for the tip, he seems pretty interesting indeed. It also seems that he has some kind of agreement with Vicente......Hermeto plays Libertango but leaves out the small part that might or not might have inspired Vicente (compare vicente's 0:45 "missing link" with above piano duo that embeds the part at 1:55).

still Vicente's melody very much sounds like a typical Vicente melody despite it's flavor of Oblivion and Libertango.




kikkoman -> RE: New album by Vicente Amigo (Jan. 11 2013 3:11:37)

that violinist in the vicente amigo band video has dismal left hand technique



Erik van Goch -> RE: New album by Vicente Amigo (Jan. 11 2013 3:16:30)

quote:

ORIGINAL: kikkoman

that violinist in the vicente amigo band video has dismal left hand technique


Vicente seems to approve it (0:43)...maybe with feighned enthusiasm but still...



Anders Eliasson -> RE: New album by Vicente Amigo (Jan. 11 2013 9:09:42)

Next album from V. Amigo will be new age meditation music.
If he goes simpler and elaborates his things a lot slower, making each number some 10 minuts long, then he might have a winner and make a lot of new positive friends.
Right now he´s a bit inbetween two chairs.



Thomas -> RE: New album by Vicente Amigo (Jan. 11 2013 9:43:56)

quote:

Next album from V. Amigo will be new age meditation music.
If he goes simpler and elaborates his things a lot slower, making each number some 10 minuts long, then he might have a winner and make a lot of new positive friends.
Right now he´s a bit inbetween two chairs.


hmmm...I wonder how you would feel if someone else rated your own skills as a luthier in such a patronising manner



el carbonero -> RE: New album by Vicente Amigo (Jan. 11 2013 13:46:58)

that is elevator music.

same harmonie like before,mucho repetition.
boring.

I respect vicente but paseo de gracia y this album,not at all flamenco



Ricardo -> RE: New album by Vicente Amigo (Jan. 11 2013 14:48:16)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Thomas

quote:

Next album from V. Amigo will be new age meditation music.
If he goes simpler and elaborates his things a lot slower, making each number some 10 minuts long, then he might have a winner and make a lot of new positive friends.
Right now he´s a bit inbetween two chairs.


hmmm...I wonder how you would feel if someone else rated your own skills as a luthier in such a patronising manner



It's ok we got him already on the soundport thing. He don't care. [:D]

I only found it boring cuz guitar wise it's the same old 5+7 buleria pattern PDL learned from mclaughlin (meeting of spirits) and Vicente used himself like a dozen songs already, and in THIS one it is infact THE ENTIRE SONG.[:D] Harmonically its the circle of 5ths which is always pretty, I never knock anybody from using it, its about unavoidable as trying to do physics without mathematics.



Anders Eliasson -> RE: New album by Vicente Amigo (Jan. 11 2013 14:56:29)

quote:



quote:

Next album from V. Amigo will be new age meditation music.
If he goes simpler and elaborates his things a lot slower, making each number some 10 minuts long, then he might have a winner and make a lot of new positive friends.
Right now he´s a bit inbetween two chairs.



hmmm...I wonder how you would feel if someone else rated your own skills as a luthier in such a patronising manner


Why is it patronising? I actually mean what I say.... I like New age meditation music and I listen a lot to it in my workshop. Its very relaxing. If he made that album, I would maybe find it more interesting than ´Roma´
I have an enourmous respect for Vicente Amigo. Besides being a very good guitarists, I consider him to be a real artist that might need more space to work than flamenco can give him. And I have absolutely no problem (on the contrary) with him doing other things. I just find this one a bit mediocre and lacking some clear ideas.
I also play celtic music myself, so its very easy for me to listen to this music, but I must admit that if I want to get a relaxing celtic feel, then I prefer the first 4 or 5 albums by ´Clannad´.
Still, we have only heard 1 number, so I prefer to wait with being to judgemental.



rogeliocan -> RE: New album by Vicente Amigo (Jan. 11 2013 14:59:51)

quote:

Next album from V. Amigo will be new age meditation music.


Funny you say that because as I was shaving this morning I was thinking that I like the Roma piece but I just don't want it coming from Vicente Amigo. And I was thinking that this is the same as Enya starting to come out with flamenco pieces, her fans might think it is good (or not...) but it would not line up with her work.

So could be, soon Vicente and Enya will be sharing the stage maybe...



rogeliocan -> RE: New album by Vicente Amigo (Jan. 11 2013 15:01:56)

quote:

hmmm...I wonder how you would feel if someone else rated your own skills as a luthier in such a patronising manner


maybe if he started building violins...[:D]



heavymellow -> RE: New album by Vicente Amigo (Jan. 11 2013 20:04:26)

All this talk about the album being "Non-Flamenco"....
The description of the new release was never described as a Flamenco album. Vicente is an artist with a broad palette - this is just an extension of what he is capable of.
Like it or not, Flamenco or New Age, he is a master at his craft and combining genres will only help people learn more about Flamenco.
Excuse me while I duck under cover...I think I hear grenades being thrown...:)



Anders Eliasson -> RE: New album by Vicente Amigo (Jan. 12 2013 7:43:36)

quote:

All this talk about the album being "Non-Flamenco"....
The description of the new release was never described as a Flamenco album. Vicente is an artist with a broad palette - this is just an extension of what he is capable of.
Like it or not, Flamenco or New Age, he is a master at his craft and combining genres will only help people learn more about Flamenco.
Excuse me while I duck under cover...I think I hear grenades being thrown...:)


I agree with what you write, but please remember that this is a flamenco forum and we are used to deal with V. Amigo as a flamenco player.



Pimientito -> RE: New album by Vicente Amigo (Jan. 12 2013 7:55:18)

I Kind of agree except that Vicentes first 3 albums were very flamenco. I still rate Vivencias imaginadas as one of my top flamenco albums. When i first listened to paseo de gracia I really didnt like it. Then I put it on in the car and started to listen to it as a music album, not as a flamenco album and I started to like it. If you are a flamenco purist, you are not going to like Vicentes later work but the general public love it. Hes sold thousands of albums and won a Grammy which is amazing for a flamenco guitarist. As a guitarist I have to agree with Ricardo, its kind of boring to listen to especially when you know what he is capable of playing.



Anders Eliasson -> RE: New album by Vicente Amigo (Jan. 12 2013 9:22:28)

quote:

I still rate Vivencias imaginadas as one of my top flamenco albums.


So do I. Its really a masterpiece.



Doitsujin -> RE: New album by Vicente Amigo (Jan. 12 2013 11:18:20)

ok I listened to it more and like it each time even more. Its well structured, building up in phases. really good.

One thing in life is..you recognize only significant things whereas you don´t see things u r used to, even if they are good. And within things that significantly moved your feelings.. you remember more the bad things than the good things. Thats a problem... because it makes most people blind, not able to appreciate, what good things there are and were.
The good thing about this song especially for me is, after thinking through, that there is no singer popping in for like 5 sec, shouting like ****, destroying the harmony, making me doing ugly faces, getting headache, making me think in a loop "why the heck can´t some damn singers just SHUT IT?!", making it difficult for me to show my friends, who are unexperienced with flamenco showing em good stuff, good music.."because shouting isn´t good" and because they cant handle that ugly shouting... (e.g. duquende and all singers of the new rosario CD, especially in tangos and the one in the middle of "hermanos"....man these shouters make my fingernails roll up...horrible). In short, its so good because Vicente spared out the ugly voices! :)
.



XXX -> RE: New album by Vicente Amigo (Jan. 12 2013 12:58:55)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Doitsujin

ok I listened to it more and like it each time even more. Its well structured, building up in phases. really good.

One thing in life is..you recognize only significant things whereas you don´t see things u r used to, even if they are good. And within things that significantly moved your feelings.. you remember more the bad things than the good things. Thats a problem... because it makes most people blind, not able to appreciate, what good things there are and were.
The good thing about this song especially for me is, after thinking through, that there is no singer popping in for like 5 sec, shouting like ****, destroying the harmony, making me doing ugly faces, getting headache, making me think in a loop "why the heck can´t some damn singers just SHUT IT?!", making it difficult for me to show my friends, who are unexperienced with flamenco showing em good stuff, good music.."because shouting isn´t good" and because they cant handle that ugly shouting... (e.g. duquende and all singers of the new rosario CD, especially in tangos and the one in the middle of "hermanos"....man these shouters make my fingernails roll up...horrible). In short, its so good because Vicente spared out the ugly voices! :)
.


Thats why outside Andalucia, where this type of singing is a part of culture, only weird people like flamenco.



Castelat -> RE: New album by Vicente Amigo (Jan. 18 2013 3:53:47)



The clip was made at Santiago de Compostela, capital city of Galicia, north of Spain. That celtic influence in his new album is not precisely from Britain, but from Galicia, I think, but I might be wrong, so that can explain why vicente has decided to make this fusion, the music from Scotland and Galicia isn't so differente, check this out:

Galician folk music Pablo Quintana


Spain is not only guitar and flamenco [;)]. So, I think this album will be a mix of flamenco and some northwest traditional folk music(Galician/Asturian). But as I said I might be wrong though.



kudo -> RE: New album by Vicente Amigo (Jan. 19 2013 12:47:40)




Elie -> RE: New album by Vicente Amigo (Jan. 19 2013 20:33:20)

thank you for the links Castelat



rombsix -> RE: New album by Vicente Amigo (Apr. 14 2013 22:08:16)



New and improved tutorial...



KMMI77 -> RE: New album by Vicente Amigo (Apr. 14 2013 22:37:37)

Hey Ramzi,

Did you notice the way he flattens the first finger to create a bar during the first chord? Also in this video he plays your chord at 2:18 on the second fret.

I also notice that he is playing with the a and m fingers together during the majority of the arpeggio, rather than dragging the a finger over two strings.

anyway, just small details.




rombsix -> RE: New album by Vicente Amigo (Apr. 15 2013 0:44:07)

Agreed Kris that he is flattening the finger. The D chord he does play on the second fret. I blame Paco Navarro for mixing my brain up on that one. I was playing it like Vicente in my earlier tutorial, but the image of Navarro got stuck in my brain and I copied his way. I agree also about the dragging versus m+a right hand technique. I did the tutorial without reviewing the video (especially the one you pointed out), and I also realize that the A chord I am playing in the middle of the fretboard is also not identical to the way Vicente does it. However, I am trying to be more of an "80-20 rule" kind of guy nowadays because after years of being quite anal and trying to come up with stuff "100% accurately", now I am realizing that that might not be the most cost-effective thing to do in regards to my time. If it would have taken me 20 minutes to review the video and get the voicings exactly like Vicente, I probably would have missed the chance of being able to put in 20 more minutes in preparing for Monday's work day by reading about my patients. I guess I'm starting to have to become less of a perfectionist and more of a realist. If the viewers of the video tutorial of mine get lost because of the differences (which likely they won't notice) we both recounted, that would be the least of my worries. Once someone starts paying me to make these tutorials, I'll go back to being as anal as I was in the past. And even then, I'm not sure I'll do what I used to try doing some years ago because this is music and this is life and this is flamenco and many-a-time the artists/composers themselves never give the same performance identically twice.

Cheers my friend, and thanks for the comments!



KMMI77 -> RE: New album by Vicente Amigo (Apr. 15 2013 0:57:38)

quote:

The D chord he does play on the second fret. I blame Paco Navarro for mixing my brain up on that one.


I know what you mean. Jai and I have started playing a dou version of this tune together at gigs, And due to so many versions appearing, I have relearnt the chord progression three times now[:D][:D]

I think it's great that you take time to make your videos. For sure your work has helped and inspired many guitarists. Keep doing what your doing.



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