RE: Picado. New to guitar and flamenco (Full Version)

Foro Flamenco: http://www.foroflamenco.com/
- Discussions: http://www.foroflamenco.com/default.asp?catApp=0
- - General: http://www.foroflamenco.com/in_forum.asp?forumid=13
- - - RE: Picado. New to guitar and flamenco: http://www.foroflamenco.com/fb.asp?m=211354



Message


amigo -> RE: Picado. New to guitar and flamenco (Sep. 26 2012 11:42:21)

Very good jg! String Crossing Exercise...




mezzo -> RE: Picado. New to guitar and flamenco (Sep. 26 2012 13:14:01)

quote:

After playing the C, you should leave that finger on the third string because it's going to play the A.

Norman is this going against the bip bip philosophy?




NormanKliman -> RE: Picado. New to guitar and flamenco (Sep. 26 2012 17:03:05)

Only you can prevent forest fires.[:)]




mezzo -> RE: Picado. New to guitar and flamenco (Sep. 26 2012 17:22:23)

quote:

Only you can prevent forest fires.

sounds like a translated letra.




Erik van Goch -> RE: Picado. New to guitar and flamenco (Sep. 26 2012 22:53:29)

I'm not a hero in playing picado but every now and then i have my share in enjoying (more than) acceptable levels. In general i promote totally relaxed fingers/hands since they produce the best sound, are more flexible in movement/sound coloring and on top seems to respond much quicker to new input than tensed fingers. I guess playing picado most probably has more to do with mind/finger control than with muscle power as well. To me finding myself the most optimal arm/hand/finger positioning seems to be a far better way to success than muscle-power training. You will be amazed what a huge difference even small alterations of hand/finger angle can make in overall feeling, control and power. Like mark indigo i promote economy of movement which in this case indeed means minimum movement. Paco de Lucia and Vicente Amigo are excellent examples of this approach.

In my opinion muscles should primary be used to move your fingers. My father (who severely studied both classical and flamenco techniques) noticed that flamenco players can/will lift there finger at a higher speed than classical guitar players when playing picado. He thinks this difference is a result of the fact that the flamenco player (unlike the classical player) has better developed muscles for opening the fingers (due to the rasgueado techniques). This inspired me (and as it turned out many others) to practice/use this muscles for the left hand as well.




mark indigo -> RE: Picado. New to guitar and flamenco (Sep. 27 2012 13:14:51)

quote:

No matter how much mental control you have over your tiny movements, you're still going to get tired unless your muscles have enough endurance to keep up.


Yes, and you still don't need a lot of strength, because strength and endurance are different things.

Strength is the muscle's power to overcome weight or resistance. Playing a guitar string is always going to require the same force, and therefore the same strength, no matter whether you hit the string once or a hundred times in succession.

Endurance (or stamina) is something else, the ability to keep exerting that same force repeatedly. It will depend on the build up of waste products in the muscles vs. the body's efficiency at removing them.


quote:

You're right that you don't need to be able to deadlift 400 lbs in order to be able to play fast, but there is quite a bit of physical training involved. Even what you're referring to as 'mental', is actually physical. You can't just simply will yourself to play fast.


I didn't mean that you need to be able to lift 400 lbs in order to be able to play fast, i meant you don't need the flexor and extensor muscles that move the fingers to be particularly big - for the reason above.

Neither did I mean to imply that you can just will yourself to play fast and it will magically happen

whenever you make a movement (except a reflex reaction, that's different and not relevant here) there is mental activity in the brain that ultimately sends a message via the nervous system to the muscle to tell it to contract. There is a lot of mental work involved in rapid and precise finger movements like picado.

I'm not really into the idea of a mental vs. physical split, because they work together, but in the same way as the movement starts as brain activity, I think it's more important, as Ricardo has said, to focus on the development of the mental control necessary.

While practising that the muscles will develop the necessary stamina as you say to "keep up".




mark indigo -> RE: Picado. New to guitar and flamenco (Sep. 27 2012 13:39:17)

quote:

Forget 'minimum movement' of the i and m fingers as well. Minimum movement is such a seductive concept but, and this is just my 'belief', the effort at minimum movement can introduce tension into the hand(s) in all but the most experienced players.


when i used the term "minimum movement" i mean the smallest amount of movement needed to achieve the desired goal (eg. hitting the string). That is always going to be the most efficient, as it will require the least work from the muscle.

If someone is making bigger movements than are necessary, and then tries to limit the size of those movements by doing something extra, they are likely to create tension because the extra limiting muscle work will be opposing the original muscle movements.

If they just change the size of the movements they make, and make smaller movements they will likely not create any tension. But this will require a high degree of mental control.

Better still learn to make only the smallest movements necessary in the first place.




Ricardo -> RE: Picado. New to guitar and flamenco (Sep. 27 2012 14:32:38)

Well, one more thing about the mental aspect of picado being important over the physical aspect. The bip bip bip thing being argued is the physical part to me....regardless of the science behind what muscle does what, my point is that this exercise helps develop control and efficiency.

Now to drive the point about mental "will yourself to play like paco" being ACTUALLY valid, I give this example. I said speed is really rhythmic control. In indian music you learn to SAY rhythms BEFORE you try a technique to play them... on any instrument. That means if you can verbalize the speed and timing, you have a better chance to actually do it physically. Now I experiment with this a bit and I can execute most of the rhythms I can say, but of course not all. THere will be bridges of technique that need to be built, at least I "know" what is on the other side.

So the speedy picado of Paco, can anyone SAY the rhythm verbal that fast? Is it necessary to do it? I say it will certainly help verses scale drills and such. Here the first scene Paco does palmas and verbalizes the picado scale of 16ths very fast while doing palmas "taka taka taka TAHka taka taka taka taka ....etc." For me it's no wonder he can play fast as his perception of the timing of the phrases at high tempos are well within his mental control vs just his fingers going for it.





Erik van Goch -> RE: Picado. New to guitar and flamenco (Sep. 27 2012 14:47:36)

Actually there are various ways to generate extremely fast notes which vary according to the desired expression, speed and amount of notes/strings involved. So various situations can be served with various approaches. The common factor seems to be complete relaxation and economy of moves

>>>> minimal movements and <plugging 1 finger/lifting the other> is 1 (simultaneous) movement, just like walking (the stairs)




z6 -> RE: Picado. New to guitar and flamenco (Sep. 27 2012 14:48:56)

Yes, but the 'minimum movement' principle, because it sounds so rational, is almost always trotted out when 'efficiency' is mooted.

I don't disagree about all the arguments in favour of minimum movement I just think that it's a bum steer for beginners. That is, there are more important things. Relaxation, for example. But we know that simply trying to relax or advising someone to relax will not induce the relaxation we mean when we are talking about playing guitar.

Norman, for example cited his observation of the best players always using minimum movement. Unfortunately, that does nothing to get us there. And also I would suggest that the term 'rest stroke' though it seems identical to picado (indeed 'is' picado) is entirely different... Something of a paradox... But I played many years with minimum movement yet picado was simply impossible for me. Minimum movement 'seems' right. And there's nothing wrong with it. But it must come after picado... it will not take you to picado. If it did, then I would have arrived many years ago 'at' picado.

All classical guitarists play with minimum movement but very few (or even 'none' that have not studied flamenco) can play something with the impact of a strong picado. The commonality is not minimum movement. That's why I'd suggest 'high and wide' or indeed any old way, as long as the result goes bip bip bip.

The only thing that matters is that bip bip bip leads us to picado. It leads to relaxation, efficiency. It leads us to control.

Screeds are written 'about' technique in the classical world but there seems little 'real' in it. It's a lot of talk. Flamenco seems to have hardly any talk anout technique outside the the techniques themselves... it's a continuum between the technique, the sound, the result. ( i.e. this is alzapua, this is picado, this is rasguedo, you can do it this way or that or make up your own way, but this is the thing.)

It's not really about whether tension is introduced by first doing this and then that or doing that from the start, it's about a foolproof method that leads to picado.

And there is one... bip.

But, for me, it required glue (to eliminate a hook nail) and flat filing before the magic could take effect. That's all it took. I could play Bach fugues thirty years ago but I could never play a picado until I got the nails right... then I could truly relax.

Segovia's first teacher was a poor flamenco player. His dad moved the flamenco guy into his house for three weeks then, when Segovia had learned all he needed, they chucked the guy out. (This is my memory from reading his autobiography years ago. Indeed, there was a foreword in the book in which Segovia bragged about writing the thing himself. He shouldn't have written it himself. He was an important guitarist but a tiny, horrible man.)

I reckon three weeks with a flamenco player is enough to learn everything a classical guitarist would need to do everything Segovia did... technically. And I realize that the accepted wisdom is that flamencos 'took' from classical.

I know I'm harping on about this but the reason is because it's so huge. With the right nail shape and a simple exercise that requires no analysis, it's possible to develop a technique for playing single line music on nylon strung guitar capable of anything in any repertoire... a 'real' technique, available to anyone, not just the 'prodigies' who happen upon it or are 'born with it'.

I reckon Segovia's 'revulsion' to the noisy flamencos was nothing but a cover up, a deflection, a red herring. I have witnessed many similar 'denials of reality' from classical guitarists in their reactions to flamenco dexterity and command of the instrument.

Apologies for my off-topic ramblings. I always think I might be connecting to someone in the same boat. Someone who most people would describe as an accomplished player but who once thought what flamenco players did seemed 'impossible', and now sees it's just a matter of practise.

But the nails must be right. (Or one can do it 'nail-less' but it is so much harder to do... much, much harder.)




n85ae -> RE: Picado. New to guitar and flamenco (Sep. 27 2012 15:01:45)

I think what you're saying is completely valid Ricardo, my original point
was that I think it requires some patience on the part of the person
learning. Because the muscles need to develop as well. You can't simply
learn to play picado at speed until the fingers can physically do it.
Regardless of the science, etc, etc. If you don't practice properly it will
be a difficult thing.

For me a lot of stuff came together when I learned simply how
to tap my foot and play against it. Amazing how usefull that is. But
a lot of people can't do that.

Regards,
Jeff




chester -> RE: Picado. New to guitar and flamenco (Sep. 27 2012 20:07:24)

quote:

ORIGINAL: mark indigo
whenever you make a movement (except a reflex reaction, that's different and not relevant here) there is mental activity in the brain that ultimately sends a message via the nervous system to the muscle to tell it to contract. There is a lot of mental work involved in rapid and precise finger movements like picado.

I'm not really into the idea of a mental vs. physical split, because they work together, but in the same way as the movement starts as brain activity


I don't disagree with anything you said but when I hear 'mental' it sounds to me like a matter of willpower (I know that's not what you meant but I wanted to clarify my point). The command to move your fingers does come from the brain, but from the way I understand it it's very much a physical thing. The 'roadways' (nerves) these messages pass through get wider (thus better at transmitting information) with use, and the muscles that are supposed to react to the messages get conditioned to react faster. That's why practice makes us better.

Of course conceptualizing the fast rhythms through verbalizations such as takataka etc are important but that's mainly fine tuning already-honed physical ability. Being able to verbalize a fast run isn't going to make your body be able to handle the messages unless you condition it to.

Please take into account that I'm not a neuroscientist (though I do have a pretty decent picado[:D]). Please correct me if I have any misconceptions.




chester -> RE: Picado. New to guitar and flamenco (Sep. 27 2012 20:11:55)

I think we're actually all in agreement here (except for z6 - I dunno what's he's going on about - segovia etc) but talking about different aspects of the same thing.

We can all agree that picado - as simple as it may seem, is a complex technique that requires different skills to master. So turn on that metronome (on a slow speed) and start bipping.




z6 -> RE: Picado. New to guitar and flamenco (Sep. 27 2012 23:02:20)

Chester, to illuminate:

The term 'rest stroke' was used. I wanted to differentiate. I wanted to make a point about the actual existence of picado as opposed to all the stuff about muscles and movement. I was saying that Segovia was taught by a flamenco guitarist, in the first instance. I thought maybe people who were not aware of that fact might find it interesting.

Classical guitarists cannot play picado. Why? A rest stroke and a picado stroke are the same thing. Classical guitar 'technique' is steeped in ideas related, ultimately, to Segovia. Why can't classical guitarists play picado? It doesn't make any sense.

Sorry if it seems unrelated to you. But all the stuff about muscles and minimum movement and the like is identical to classical technique and does not lead to 'a' picado. (Note I'm not taking about a 'better' picado... just 'a' picado)

But you say you have a pretty decent picado. My posts are for people who want 'a' picado. (I would emphasize here that 'a' picado means just that... it is not about speed. I've heard a lot of talented people here. I've heard people play fast picado-like passages on other threads but that is not the thing I mean when I use the term.)

I don't think picado is a 'hard' technique, as you claim. What does 'hard' mean? So why was it denied to me for years? And why is it denied to so many? (not you, but me and many others)

Things are being said in an offhand manner. You say it's a 'complex technique' for example, after the bip bip 'road' has claimed (I would say 'established') that it is not.

You say 'practise makes us better' but of course, you know that is not the case. Practise actualizes what we practise in our playing. 'Practise makes permanent' as they say.

What I find, from this conversation, is this: Ricardo says things that have enormous value (as do others) but there are also comments being made that sound like the same stuff I've heard for years and none of it leads to the answer. It obfuscates important information.

Talking about my comments 'sideways'... 'what he's on about' is very rude. If you do not understand what I'm 'on about' talk to me, as you would if we were in the same room, and I'll try to explain 'what I'm on about'. Or pm me if you're too embarrassed at talking down so far. I get that you post to make pals. I post for different reasons, but no need for the cheek.

All the talk about muscles and strength is basically s h i t. And I know this because I've said the same things many times myself.

Also, I would say, and I think it's important, that the metronome is not required for this at all. Not to 'get' 'a' picado. It's taken me years to isolate this technique and when it happened it happened overnight, in a 'wunner'.

I'm not underestimating the role of the metronome but it has nothing to do with getting 'a' picado. If you find my posts boring please just block them, and I'll promise to take into account that you are not a neuroscientist (as you requested) when you talk about:

quote:

The 'roadways' (nerves) these messages pass through get wider (thus better at transmitting information) with use, and the muscles that are supposed to react to the messages get conditioned to react faster. That's why practice makes us better.


Lucky you mentioned you were not a neuroscientist. The above quote might have thrown me. Please, if I, or anyone else, wants to mention Segovia or classical guitar or our personal experiences in relation to these matters know that it doesn't sound any less dumb than the My Name is Earl Guide to Neuroscience.

If you think I'm being a little cheeky please explain to me the difference between a rest stroke and picado (leaving out all the stories about nerves and muscles... just keep it simple, just tell me the difference).




chester -> RE: Picado. New to guitar and flamenco (Sep. 27 2012 23:44:07)

Buddy, I was just joking with that remark. I found it funny that you went on a rant about classical guitarists and Segovia. I'm sorry if I've offended you.

btw - there are a few guitarists here on the foro that are steeped in what you call 'classical technique' and they have a killer picado. Go figure...




z6 -> RE: Picado. New to guitar and flamenco (Sep. 28 2012 1:31:35)

Well then Chester, I apologize for extracting offence that was not intended. And for casting aspersions on your neuroscientific credentials. I'd suggest actually addressing the person making the rant rather than telling someone else you 'don't know what he's going on about'.

And I get that Grisha has a monster picado. But why is it that classical guitarists can't do picado, I ask again? Even though all the elements are apparently identical?

I read one of Grisha's posts from a long time ago where he said he'd taken out all the ligados from Bach's chaconne and played it for John Williams and Williams told him to put them back.

That's what I'm on about. Why didn't he hug him and recognize him as the future of classical guitar? Because Williams isn't used to getting his derrier kicked maybe? He's droned on enough about Segovia treating him like s h i t but Segovia gave him a career.

You see the question I'm really trying to highlight is how come (so many) flamenco players 'can' do picado? (Yes, bip bip bip, the rest really is ranting.)




Erik van Goch -> RE: Picado. New to guitar and flamenco (Sep. 28 2012 13:49:07)

quote:

ORIGINAL: z6


I read one of Grisha's posts from a long time ago where he said he'd taken out all the ligados from Bach's chaconne and played it for John Williams and Williams told him to put them back.....That's what I'm on about. Why didn't he hug him and recognize him as the future of classical guitar? Because Williams isn't used to getting his derrier kicked maybe?



If-this-text-was-spo-ken-by-a-com-pu-ter-on-a-mo-no-tone-rhy-thm-and-tone-you-most- pro-ba-bly-will-have-the-sound-of-music-with-out-bin-dings.

Thats one of the reasons why bindings are applied. If John Williams has one weakness it's not a lack of technique but an overdose of technical skills. As a result he can play (and record) a piece of music in the time others need to open the book. Drawback of his ability to play a piece of music instantly is that it skips/lacks the necessary time for musical reflection. As a result his music often fails the right finesse...even the best wine needs some (additional) time to mature.

Many, many flamenco players indeed have excellent technical skills but the real skill is to use it to serve the music.

One of the reasons so many (young) players can do picado so well might be the simple fact they (rightfully) assume they just can....than the battle is already half won.

Personally i can often play my right hand fingers faster than necessary, so that's not the real challenge......LR-hand-synchronisation and string walking however is.




z6 -> RE: Picado. New to guitar and flamenco (Sep. 28 2012 14:36:03)

quote:

One of the reasons so many (young) players can do picado so well might be the simple fact they (rightfully) assume they just can....than the battle is already half won.


That's a good point, and I know you're right about Williams but he got even better over the years, it seems.

But! Why do you limit this possible effect to young players? I remember walking the streets in Spain many years ago and thinking sheeyit, every one of these guys just playing in the streets is a virtuoso (maybe the wine I drunk accentuated their skills but, at the time, it seemed phenomenal).

Young players now have different standards, just as athletes do, but even years ago flamenco players just seemed incredible. It's hard to define but I mean (kind of) on average.




n85ae -> RE: Picado. New to guitar and flamenco (Sep. 28 2012 15:33:57)

That's easy, don't get a job, and sit around all day every day with a guitar
and a bunch of friends all doing the same thing, you'll get better also.

quote:

But! Why do you limit this possible effect to young players? I remember walking the streets in Spain many years ago and thinking sheeyit, every one of these guys just playing in the streets is a virtuoso (maybe the wine I drunk accentuated their skills but, at the time, it seemed phenomenal).




z6 -> RE: Picado. New to guitar and flamenco (Sep. 28 2012 16:16:55)

Ha, I think you nailed it n85ae.




Erik van Goch -> RE: Picado. New to guitar and flamenco (Sep. 28 2012 17:22:45)

quote:

ORIGINAL: z6

quote:

One of the reasons so many (young) players can do picado so well might be the simple fact they (rightfully) assume they just can....than the battle is already half won.


That's a good point, and I know you're right about Williams but he got even better over the years, it seems.

But! Why do you limit this possible effect to young players? I remember walking the streets in Spain many years ago and thinking sheeyit, every one of these guys just playing in the streets is a virtuoso (maybe the wine I drunk accentuated their skills but, at the time, it seemed phenomenal).

Young players now have different standards, just as athletes do, but even years ago flamenco players just seemed incredible. It's hard to define but I mean (kind of) on average.



Funny enough the only reason i mentioned <young> was that i (wrongfully) thought you used it in your previous post as well. At the same "young" players have indeed different standards, both in classical- and in flamenco guitar. The easy access to good examples/material/teachers has raised average level dramatically over the years. Television/LP/CD recordings already gave a boost in the 60/70/80/90ties and future genetations can now enjoy the "limitless" possibilities of the internet as well.

When my father (1 of only a hand full top players in the netherlands in the 50ties) stumbled on his very first Bach suite for the lute, that discovery was the result of severe surging in specialized university libraries on a regular base. In those days it could take months or even years before you found yourself another Bach suite for the lute. Over the years he found/played all of them and now (60 years later) he still plays them...in the 70ties he upgraded to an 11-string alto-guitar and nowadays he favors playing them on a real lute. The technical abilities that made him stand out in the 50/60s are now standard level. His musical taste and (teaching) abilities however are still quite rare.

When he visited Spain for the first time in the 80s (to study the art of Flamenco guitar) the first guy he met was "one of the locals" who basically street-played 24/7 during the whole week. Unlike other flamenco-corse guitar participants (who didn't bother to stop and watch this guy at all) my father spent every second available studying this guys incredible skills. At that moment of time my father was the number 1 classical guitar teacher of Rotterdam University of Music and he and Paco Peña were in the process of offering professional flamenco guitar lessons at university level as well. Presuming this guy represented "the average local" my father almost decided to abandon his flamenco aspirations because "this was totally unbeatable".

Long time has past since and my father did indeed became a formidable teacher in the art of flamenco guitar. The first generation of students were a struggle to educate but for the later generations of students "discipline and playing correctly" simply became "standard procedure" and the same happened as in the streets of Spain..... when everybody in your surrounding can play it, obviously so can you.

Oh, and that first local my father met back then (the one with the monstrous technique who kept on playing for hours and hours without making a single mistake) later turned out to have a certain reputation himself.......his name was Gerardo Nuñez :-)




mark indigo -> RE: Picado. New to guitar and flamenco (Sep. 28 2012 18:26:08)

quote:

But all the stuff about muscles and minimum movement and the like is identical to classical technique and does not lead to 'a' picado.


well.... you had a big rant about classical guitar/ists in you last post, but I'm not a classical guitarist, I don't play classical guitar, only flamenco guitar, and I don't know anything much about classical guitar or classical guitarists so I can't really comment on that.

But what I will say is that when I watch great flamenco guitarists like PDL, Sanlucar, Gerardo, Riqueni etc. etc. one of the things I see is that they all have very great economy of movement, they all seem to only do the absolute minimum movement necessary and nothing more. These guys are my point of reference.

It's not necessary to know about the theory to play well - if you have a good picado etc. and no problems then you don't need to know about these ideas!

The "bip, bip," staccato exercise that has been discussed here (also something I practise btw) is not an alternative to the idea of minimum movement, if anything it is an exercise in minimum movement, or as Ricardo said;
quote:

This trains your fingers to prepare super early for efficiency and get a good sound and control volume and ultimately rhythmic control which truly what speed is about.
I hope Ricardo will forgive me if I have misunderstood or misquoted him, but I am equating minimum movement with efficiency.

It's not either/or, it's just a basic fact that the minimum movement necessary to achieve the goal is gonna be more efficient than using more movement than is necessary. Just because someone in a different musical genre espouses this also, or just because someone who knows about it plays badly doesn't make it wrong.

Again, if you have a playing technique that is good enough to play the music you want to the standard you want, and if you don't have any problems with tendonitis or anything like that, then you probably have no need for looking into the anatomy and physiology or any of these ideas.
If it ain't broke don't fix it!

But having wrong anatomical ideas can lead someone to develop problems, either of faulty technique affecting the musical results, or of RSI type problems. so I have tried to point out and correct a few errors. That's all.




Ricardo -> RE: Picado. New to guitar and flamenco (Sep. 29 2012 17:44:25)

quote:

Oh, and that first local my father met back then (the one with the monstrous technique who kept on playing for hours and hours without making a single mistake) later turned out to have a certain reputation himself.......his name was Gerardo Nunez :-)


[:D] Great story man!!!




el.toro -> RE: Picado. New to guitar and flamenco (Sep. 29 2012 20:59:52)

ok... time for the noob to ask again.

What part of the finger is the contact point for sounding the note? Is it the flesh or... is it the nail?
I have just started playing.... so I don't really have proper nails yet.

I find it really difficult to Bip the top string. The others are good but I am at a loss for that bass string. lol




el.toro -> RE: Picado. New to guitar and flamenco (Oct. 1 2012 3:00:38)

Anyone?.... Bueller?




machopicasso -> RE: Picado. New to guitar and flamenco (Oct. 1 2012 9:07:32)

quote:

Is it the flesh or... is it the nail?


Both. (cf. the Gerardo Nuñez Encuentro DVD).




machopicasso -> RE: Picado. New to guitar and flamenco (Oct. 1 2012 9:09:25)

quote:


When he visited Spain for the first time in the 80s (to study the art of Flamenco guitar) the first guy he met was "one of the locals" who basically street-played 24/7 during the whole week. Unlike other flamenco-corse guitar participants (who didn't bother to stop and watch this guy at all) my father spent every second available studying this guys incredible skills. At that moment of time my father was the number 1 classical guitar teacher of Rotterdam University of Music and he and Paco Peña were in the process of offering professional flamenco guitar lessons at university level as well. Presuming this guy represented "the average local" my father almost decided to abandon his flamenco aspirations because "this was totally unbeatable".


Great story. Given the subsequent notoriety of this "average local," can you tell us more?




Erik van Goch -> RE: Picado. New to guitar and flamenco (Oct. 1 2012 12:01:38)

quote:

ORIGINAL: machopicasso

quote:


When he visited Spain for the first time in the 80s (to study the art of Flamenco guitar) the first guy he met was "one of the locals" who basically street-played 24/7 during the whole week. Unlike other flamenco-corse guitar participants (who didn't bother to stop and watch this guy at all) my father spent every second available studying this guys incredible skills. At that moment of time my father was the number 1 classical guitar teacher of Rotterdam University of Music and he and Paco Peña were in the process of offering professional flamenco guitar lessons at university level as well. Presuming this guy represented "the average local" my father almost decided to abandon his flamenco aspirations because "this was totally unbeatable".


Great story. Given the subsequent notoriety of this "average local," can you tell us more?



There's nothing to add really...at the time my father had some (first hand) knowledge of the flamenco practiced in the 50ties/60ties, but had mainly concentrated on classical guitar ever since. Living in the Netherlands (in a period without internet) the only temporary artists available over here were Juan Martin, Paco Peña, Paco de Lucia and Fiesta Gitana (both on record and on stage). When the 15 year old Vicente Amigo visited the Netherlands in 1983 he was invited as a special guest by my father to give a small concert/demonstration at Rotterdam University of Music were my father was the main teacher of classical guitar and also offered a "special interest corse" focussing on flamenco.

When he joined his friend/colleague Paco Peña on his trip to spain (probably in order to prepare there future collaboration in offering the first university corse of flamenco guitar in the world) he met (and obviously noticed) the talented guy who played on the corner of the street 24/7. My father had always considered Paco de Lucia and Paco Peña to be the top of the bill (and as such record-worthy) and now THE VERRY FIRST street player he met "in the wild" possessed these superb technical skills as well. Not knowing Nuñez was top of the bill himself he (wrongfully) assumed this unknown local was only the tip of the iceberg....and let's be honest, how many of you knew Nuñez at the early 80ties?




Page: <<   <   1 [2]

Valid CSS!




Forum Software powered by ASP Playground Advanced Edition 2.0.5
Copyright © 2000 - 2003 ASPPlayground.NET