Navarro Conde!

Navarro Conde! (Full Version)

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Alonte -> Navarro Conde! (Jul. 12 2012 21:08:35)
Just saw this a while ago... Any particular or significance of the Conde bracing pattern? http://www.ebay.com/itm/Conde-Hermanos-Style-Flamenco-Blanca-Guitar-Custom-Built-Francisco-Navarro-/350580622124?_trksid=p5197.m1992&_trkparms=aid%3D111000%26algo%3DREC.CURRENT%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D14%26meid%3D562938395064913042%26pid%3D100015%26prg%3D1006%26rk%3D1%26

Alonte -> RE: Navarro Conde! (Jul. 12 2012 21:11:11)
I wonder how "Conde" is it besides the headstock shape?

keith -> RE: Navarro Conde! (Jul. 13 2012 16:51:40)
well it has that home depot orange look to it.... navarros are good guitars and i suspect this is a good one if..... ....it is a real navarro and not a fake. i went to navarros' website and did not see any indication of a conde model or opportunity to have a guitar made with another shop's headstock. the label of the "conde" navarro is unsigned just like the student model so if this "conde" is a real navarro it is a student guitar at best.

Kalo -> RE: Navarro Conde! (Jul. 14 2012 1:52:31)
quote: navarros are good guitars and i suspect this is a good one if..... it is a real navarro and not a fake. i went to navarros' website and did not see any indication of a conde model or opportunity to have a guitar made with another shop's headstock. the label of the "conde" navarro is unsigned just like the student model so if this "conde" is a real navarro it is a student guitar at best. Talked with the Seller...It's not a FAKE Navarro, but, a real one that was custom ordered. That is why you won't see that Navarro Conde model on his website. Basically, it is an upgrade from the student flamenco guitar! The person who ordered it turned it down because there was a miscommunication as he wanted pegs and instead received mechanical turners. The difference between the Student Flamenco Guitar and this Navarro Conde is that Navarro used the same kind of bracing pattern of a Conde! Way different from his Student Flamenco Bracing Pattern. I also believe that the wood he uses for this Navarro Conde is a little better than the student as well... So, will it sound like a real Conde? Probably not, but, will it be a nice guitar, probably [:D] Thanks, Kalo

keith -> RE: Navarro Conde! (Jul. 14 2012 8:54:00)
kalo--i am sure the guy trying to unload the guitar would say it is not a fake given he is trying to unload it. if navarro provided the information you provided i then would believe the story.

Kalo -> RE: Navarro Conde! (Jul. 14 2012 15:27:07)
quote: kalo--i am sure the guy trying to unload the guitar would say it is not a fake given he is trying to unload it. if navarro provided the information you provided i then would believe the story. Hi Keith, I don't know if I want to discuss this on the forum, but, the seller is a reputable DEALER in Texas... I don't know what you mean by fake? It is a Navarro? YES! Is it a Navarro Concert Flamenco Model? No! It is a Custom Student Flamenco Model. A Santos Herndez design, Conde color, headstock, and bracing. The dealer is and HONEST not trying to unload a "FAKE" Navarro! Kalo

Sean -> RE: Navarro Conde! (Jul. 14 2012 17:16:07)
People don't need to sell fake $1000 guitars, it would be pointless lol. There is no reason to question wether its a real Navarro. If it sounds and plays good then it's nice deal for someone.

Shawn Brock -> RE: Navarro Conde! (Jul. 14 2012 20:14:52)
quote: ORIGINAL: keith kalo--i am sure the guy trying to unload the guitar would say it is not a fake given he is trying to unload it. if navarro provided the information you provided i then would believe the story. Hey Keith, when I look at the listing I'm pretty sure that its Ron Hudson who has it posted. He's the importer/ distributor for Navarro, so it seems on the up and up to me. @Kalo, you could have said that and no one would have minded. :) Lots of folks on here know Ron and think highly of him, so no worries about that.

Kalo -> RE: Navarro Conde! (Jul. 14 2012 21:57:34)
quote: quote: Hey Keith, when I look at the listing I'm pretty sure that its Ron Hudson who has it posted. He's the importer/ distributor for Navarro, so it seems on the up and up to me. @Kalo, you could have said that and no one would have minded. :) Lots of folks on here know Ron and think highly of him, so no worries about that. Well let me say Shawn you're right one the mark as far as who listed the Navarro/Conde [:D] Believe me it's real and yeah it's not a Conde, but, its going to make a nice guitar... Kalo

keith -> RE: Navarro Conde! (Jul. 15 2012 1:40:40)
it sold for a little over $1000 which is a good price for a student guitar. ok, the seller is a legit navarro dealer which is good given the hokum that frequently goes on at echo bay. and sean, people do nefarious things to sell a $1K guitar....ever heard of jim sherry?

Kalo -> RE: Navarro Conde! (Jul. 15 2012 2:29:05)
quote: it sold for a little over $1000 which is a good price for a student guitar. ok, the seller is a legit navarro dealer which is good given the hokum that frequently goes on at echo bay. and sean, people do nefarious things to sell a $1K guitar....ever heard of jim sherry? I think you should know that the person who bought the guitar did NOT buy it for the price that was listed... They bought it for way under $1000.00 A Student flamenco guitar LIST for $950.00 slightly a little less then what was listed for the custom student flamenco guitar. Even though a Student Flamenco Guitar is listed for higher, one can "wheel and deal" the price down from $950.00 This Conde Navarro listed on ebay for $1000 something, however, the Seller did have spot for the buyer to make "best offer"! So he was willing to let it go for a lot less than what he listed it for! There is nothing wrong with that. The Navarro Conde is a 2012 model as well.. By the way, I used to work for a pro tools dealer and we would list lots of things on Ebay. We were LEGIT dealers as well! It's all cool [:D] Kalo

Sean -> RE: Navarro Conde! (Jul. 15 2012 3:44:59)
Jim Sherry was a good 40yrs ago. I don't see the point of someone today taking a 1k guitar and putting a fake label on it so they can sell it for 1k or less[8\|]. That would take a criminal mastermind the likes this world have never seen. Now take a made in china $150 guitar, slap a Conde label on it and sell it for several thousand $$, now that'd make sense. Oh wait somebody is already doing that[:D]

Kalo -> RE: Navarro Conde! (Jul. 15 2012 4:01:35)
What I think is wierd about this thread is... I, presented the TRUE facts about this Navaro Conde Student flamenco guitar! FACTS: Someone on this forum (I will not mention names) ordered this CUSTOM made Flamenco Navarro through Ron Hudson! When the order was completed the buyer turned it down because the order got mixed up! The mix up: The buyer wanted pegs, but, instead received machine tuners..He turned down the order and Navarro built him another guitar with the same specs, only this time he finally got the pegs put on... The the label on the guitar is the same label as a student flamenco guitar i.e. Fransico Navarro Garcia, model number and year! It does not say Conde Hermanos. The TRUE facts are stated! Yet there are some people on this forum who still want to believe that this deal was a SCAM! I, personally don't know why, especially when the facts have been stated! Though, I am not going to try to prove the facts any longer because I guess everyone entitled to their opinions. And, I truly respect everyone's opinions and I really love this forum! I guess to each their own [:D] Kalo

Shawn Brock -> RE: Navarro Conde! (Jul. 15 2012 7:18:51)
quote: ORIGINAL: Kalo The TRUE facts are stated! Yet there are some people on this forum who still want to believe that this deal was a SCAM! I guess to each their own [:D] Kalo, I think all Keith was saying is that he questioned the validity of it because Francisco hadn't made any guitars like this that anyone here was aware of... Not trying to pick a fight or anything. Or at least I never have thought so. :) On the subject of fake labels... I know that it still goes on, and yes even at the $1000 price point. Its easier to pay $150 for a Chinese guitar, slap a good label on it and sell it for $1000 than it is to sell a fake for $2000/3000... More people are willing to gamble at the $1000 price point, and normally you are also dealing with buyers who don't know as much about guitars. They are folks who are just starting out, players who aren't that serious, or they are smarter than all of us who spend way to much money on guitars. LOL I knew the Navarro was being sold by Ron Hudson, (or at least I was 99 percent sure), so I knew it would be what he said it was. That's just the way Ron does business. He's always up front about what he has, and seems to always have good prices... But that don't mean that people aren't faking $1000 guitars... I would go for bigger money myself if I was in the faking business, but that's just me I guess... Not everyone is like me, and maybe that's the reason they have more money than me. :) So after all is said and done, did you buy the guitar Kalo, or know the buyer? I would like to hear the observations about its sound if anyone here plays it. I'm sure its a good guitar as Navarros usually are. You just can't do better for $1000...

keith -> RE: Navarro Conde! (Jul. 15 2012 9:14:45)
at no time did i say this sale was a scam or that the guitar was a fake. what i said was there was no indication at the navarro website of a conde model and if the guitar was a navarro it had the same label (unsigned) as a student model and if it was a navarro it was probably a student model. additionally, when i was challenged i said, not knowing of the seller and using facts provided from the navarro website, that the definitive proof would be from navarro himself. if you take ron's name out of the picture then all we have is guitar with a headstock of a conde made by a company that did not/does not advertise such a headstock and who have their own head stock designs. along with and a label that was unsigned and being sold at the bay it is easy to think along the lines of a scam. the fact the seller is known and trusted was the saving grace. shawn raised a good point about faking and price points. i would go farther and say there are "spanish" guitars out there made in china and sold to the company who then slap their own label on the guitar but continue to imply they were made in spain and by a pair of brothers....

Kalo -> RE: Navarro Conde! (Jul. 15 2012 15:48:10)
One thing, I didn't know, until I called Ron, was that one can special order a custom Fransico Navarro and it doesn't matter what level i.e. student, concert, etc. This is kind of cool because if you don't like his default specs then he can tweak something different.. Thanks, Kalo

HolyEvil -> RE: Navarro Conde! (Jul. 15 2012 23:46:05)
Being honest, I can see the point of making a true conde copy.. like reyes copy, santos replica etc.. BUT making a student guitar with the headstock of a conde is kinda silly.

Shawn Brock -> RE: Navarro Conde! (Jul. 16 2012 1:58:58)
quote: ORIGINAL: HolyEvil Being honest, I can see the point of making a true conde copy.. like reyes copy, santos replica etc.. BUT making a student guitar with the headstock of a conde is kinda silly. Not arguing, just keeping the topic going for better or worse... Navarro's student guitars aren't really student guitars, at least they aren't what a lot of peoples opinions of student guitars is anyhow. I hate rosewood fretboards, so for me that was one of the biggest things I didn't like about this guitar. I mean hey, its a Conde copy with the trademark Conde finish, so that means its at least as much of a Conde, (and probably more) than the student Condes are. What surprises me is that Kalo would go for the orange finish! I thought she didn't dig that look... Nothing wrong with an orange finish to me, but I know that's a matter of taste. :) I have been trying to decide if I will go with the orange finish on my new blanca that I'm on the list for, and still haven't made up my mind. I may do it, go ahead and join the planet of the orange guitar.

Kalo -> RE: Navarro Conde! (Jul. 16 2012 2:53:12)
quote: What surprises me is that Kalo would go for the orange finish! I thought she didn't dig that look... Nothing wrong with an orange finish to me, but I know that's a matter of taste. :) I have been trying to decide if I will go with the orange finish on my new blanca that I'm on the list for, and still haven't made up my mind. I may do it, go ahead and join the planet of the orange guitar. Hey Shawn, You know after viewing the guitar! And getting a GREAT price I started realizing that the orange color wasn't so bad after all! Also what appealed to me about this Navarro Conde (student) was that the bracing is that of a Conde. It's something different then my last Navarro and as stated because the price was right, I couldn't pass it up. Now is Navarro Conde going to sound like a Conde? Well, I am not holding my breath [:D] Even though the bracing is Conde, well, the wood isn't it is still the same cypress Navarro uses on his Student models. However, it's a Navarro and I am sure it will be cool! I was told that this guitar is in between a student and concert? Meaning, it is built with the visual grade of wood that is used in a student model, but with the personal attention of Navarro himself that goes with a concert model. Conde Style bracing as well as the media luna headstock and orange conde finish I am not sure if this was just a "sales pitch", but, ya know at the price I received this guitar, it didn't much matter to me... The Dealer is legit, as I dealt with him before and I researched everything carefully before buying it. I really wanted an Andy Culpepper guitar soooooo badly!!!!! But, I was laid off of my job and then rehired part time! That totally blew my chances of ordering from Andy! I have no guitar at the moment. My Takamine CP 132 is in the shop being repaired. Minor repair as the "pick up jack" needs replacing. I was advise by my luthier not to lower the bridge if I wanted to use the pick up.. I didn't want to mess with it and as soon as it is fix I will sell it... In the meantime Navarro Flamenco Guitar will be arriving hopefully Tuesday... Kalo

rombsix -> RE: Navarro Conde! (Jul. 16 2012 3:48:38)
quote: In the meantime Navarro Flamenco Guitar will be arriving hopefully Tuesday... Olé! [:D] We need videos as soon as it arrives! [8D]

Shawn Brock -> RE: Navarro Conde! (Jul. 16 2012 3:58:02)
quote: ORIGINAL: Kalo quote: What surprises me is that Kalo would go for the orange finish! I thought she didn't dig that look... Nothing wrong with an orange finish to me, but I know that's a matter of taste. :) I have been trying to decide if I will go with the orange finish on my new blanca that I'm on the list for, and still haven't made up my mind. I may do it, go ahead and join the planet of the orange guitar. Hey Shawn, You know after viewing the guitar! And getting a GREAT price I started realizing that the orange color wasn't so bad after all! In the meantime Navarro Flamenco Guitar will be arriving hopefully Tuesday... Kalo That's great Kalo and my best guess is that you will be damn happy with the guitar. Orange don't have to be someone's favorite color on a guitar, but who can't say that its not cool? I have yet to own an orange flamenco, and I have always kind of liked them. Now lets talk Keith into an orange ax... Having owned a Navarro before I'm sure you know what to expect from his craftsmanship. Its just down-right good and clean. If I were to make a prediction about this guitar over the student guitar you use to have, I would say that you'll probably get more volume and notice more presents in the bass. I could be completely wrong on that, but either way I would sure love to hear your thoughts on the guitar after you play it for a few hours. Maybe you'll even do a video with it at some point? I'm also guessing that this may be grounds for another Navarro model. The look of these is cool and though Condes aren't for everyone, there are plenty of us who love, respect and drool over a lot of Conde guitars. I would like to see Francisco offer more guitars like this in the future. I think the student model Navarro is great, but this is a cut above that.

Kalo -> RE: Navarro Conde! (Jul. 16 2012 4:24:51)
quote: Olé! We need videos as soon as it arrives! Hey Ramzi, for sure, I will do some videos! I am going to try and break it in first [:D] quote: Having owned a Navarro before I'm sure you know what to expect from his craftsmanship. Its just down-right good and clean. If I were to make a prediction about this guitar over the student guitar you use to have, I would say that you'll probably get more volume and notice more presents in the bass. I could be completely wrong on that, but either way I would sure love to hear your thoughts on the guitar after you play it for a few hours. Maybe you'll even do a video with it at some point? Hi Shawn, Your totally right regarding Navarro guitars! For the money and being under a $1000.00 a Navarro can't be beat for quality and sound. And exacty what you stated is what I am hoping for! A Conde bracing might give a different color in sound. That is what really made me want to give it a try...And, yes, maybe it won't sound Conde, but, it sound like a GREAT student Navarro, either way, I 'll be happy with it... quote: That's great Kalo and my best guess is that you will be damn happy with the guitar. Orange don't have to be someone's favorite color on a guitar, but who can't say that its not cool? I have yet to own an orange flamenco, and I have always kind of liked them. Now lets talk Keith into an orange ax... Seriously the orange color isn't bad at all. Yeah, maybe after Keith see this guitar he'll want an orange ax [:D] Its' all cool! Kalo

rombsix -> RE: Navarro Conde! (Jul. 16 2012 7:00:22)
quote: Hey Ramzi, for sure, I will do some videos! I am going to try and break it in first Break it in, on video. Do an un-boxing too! [8D]

keith -> RE: Navarro Conde! (Jul. 16 2012 12:13:39)
shawn--to follow your lead to explore the topic a little deeper, what exactly is the conde bracing pattern (i assume we are talking struts here)? kalo and shawn--an orange ax? sweet, off to the home depot i go! actually i could live with an orange guitar but it would not be choice number 1. i once owned a conde a-26 and was able to live with the color (but not so much the sound) and sold it and bought a 66 ramirez which had its own orange-ish tint and a much better sound (at least to my ears).

Kalo -> RE: Navarro Conde! (Jul. 16 2012 13:53:06)
quote: Break it in, on video. Do an un-boxing too! LOL [:D] quote: kalo and shawn--an orange ax? sweet, off to the home depot i go! actually i could live with an orange guitar but it would not be choice number 1. i once owned a conde a-26 and was able to live with the color (but not so much the sound) and sold it and bought a 66 ramirez which had its own orange-ish tint and a much better sound (at least to my ears). Navarro Conde doesn't look to bad as far as color...Of course takening it out of the box and really seeing it in person might not be the same, LOL The way I see it... I will be the only one on the forum with a FAKE Conde [:D] Here is a pic. Doesn't look that bad

keith -> RE: Navarro Conde! (Jul. 16 2012 14:58:34)
Kalo, I would not call it a fake Conde rather, think of it as a Navarro with a crescent moon over Mexico. Photos can be tricky--the one you presented appears less orange than the one on the bay. I guess you will know when the postman arrives. As to fake Condes--I would bet there are a few at the bay at any given time. Interestingly, way back in the day student Conde guitars had a headstock similiar to Navarro student guitars. I bought one back in 2003 as a beach guitar and it turned out to be a nice guitar for the money.

Kalo -> RE: Navarro Conde! (Jul. 16 2012 15:52:20)
quote: Kalo, I would not call it a fake Conde rather, think of it as a Navarro with a crescent moon over Mexico. Photos can be tricky--the one you presented appears less orange than the one on the bay. I guess you will know when the postman arrives. LOL, crescent moon over Mexico, eh. LOL, that is a good way of putting it! You are right photos can be tricky...I am sure the lighting and all can make something look less orangy [:)] quote: As to fake Condes--I would bet there are a few at the bay at any given time. Interestingly, way back in the day student Conde guitars had a headstock similiar to Navarro student guitars. I bought one back in 2003 as a beach guitar and it turned out to be a nice guitar for the money. Ah, so there is hope that this STUDENT NAVARRO CONDE might turn out to be nice...LOL!!! I am hoping that this new guitar will take my intermediate playing to more of an advance level. i.e. hoping it will good enough so that I practice like heck on it! Being that I had a Student Flamenco two years ago (I probably would of never sold it for a long time)...I think this Student Navarro will be good enough!!! As per tracking confirmation, I will know TODAY!!!! Geez, I hope the roomates will sign for it...I thought it was going to be delivered Tuesday... Kalo

Shawn Brock -> RE: Navarro Conde! (Jul. 17 2012 5:24:01)
quote: ORIGINAL: keith shawn--to follow your lead to explore the topic a little deeper, what exactly is the conde bracing pattern (i assume we are talking struts here)? LOL Keith, is this the therapist side of you? Your question brings up a great point to me. What Conde is this guitar a copy of? I know that the Brothers changed their bracing system somewhat over the years, so I wonder what plan Francisco followed for this one? It also seems to me that normally Condes, (at least most I have played) have a little larger body than the Navarro guitars, (haven't played his Reyes model though). A friend has a Navarro grand concert and a Conde A-28, and I know the body of the Conde is larger between those 2 guitars. But also the scale is 14MM longer on the Conde as well... @ Kalo, I can't say you have a fake Conde exactly. Like I said before, its a mystery now where most Condes are made. Obviously some are still made in Spain and I'm not disputing that. I have heard first hand though that some of the lower end models are made in China. I was told this by a CA luthier who has made trips to China to teach guitar making. Don't know if its true, I only know what he said and it makes for an interesting theory anyhow and lends support to the stories of many about Chinese Condes... So I guess my point is, if we don't know who makes all the Condes, and they aren't made by Conde, then how could there ever be a fake Conde? Just some deep thinking on my part...

estebanana -> RE: Navarro Conde! (Jul. 17 2012 5:34:45)
I'm feeling incredibly sexually aroused by this convo. God it's making me hot, a student Mexican Conde Copy..... Schwing!

Kalo -> RE: Navarro Conde! (Jul. 17 2012 5:39:10)
OMG, Guys and Gals, Well, I got the guitar in today!!! The guitar is BEAUTIFUL!!!! For a student model it has NO FLAWS... Now, the BOMB part, my left hand hurts like HELL!!!! About six months ago, I developed DeQuevains in my left hand.... As much as I dislike the Takamine, I didn't have this kind of pain after I got done. I went and even blew $30.00 bucks for my luthier to fix the action... I brought it home and after 2 hours of playing... My hand still hurts... The guitar is clear and LOUD...Lots of mind range and terrible! I don't think I am going to keep it... I feel horrible!!! Maybe the best thing to do is get a 50 mm nut and bridge spacing of 57.. The specs are 52 mm and 59 bridge spacing... It didn't bother me TWO years ago, I just don't understand why now??? I am the type of person that doesn't believe the term "ya just have to get used to it" Could be that my wrist/thumb got is weaker because of DeQuevains? Kalo!

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