Hey all! Now the time has come for me to really decide!(need help) (Full Version)

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odinz -> Hey all! Now the time has come for me to really decide!(need help) (Mar. 2 2012 19:17:28)

I need to decide wether I should go to Spain and stay there for a while and try to study flamenco in some way, or stay here and do higher music education in classical guitar..

I need opinions on it, pros and cons etc..

Ive allready created posts like this before but this time I would really need more concrete info if that is possible(since it is kind of a big decision).

Also it would be nice to find out if anyone could help me a bit or know someone who can.
More like, if someone could teach me or know someone that could, and also help me meet people and get to know the area and stuff like that..


This means that if anyone on this foro would help me with those things or help me find them, I would be a bit attached to them for a while.
I would also offer help and stuff if there is something of course, cleaning, painting, cutting grass,picking up things for them or whatever[:D]


I also will be living on about 2000 euros a month, that isnt alot but I am not looking for luxury, I have no idea about the spanish rental market either, I dont know how to look for appartments and I dont know how expensive it is.

I dont expect to find this all via the foro, but it is worth a try right?[8D]
If anyone is a teacher or want to help me out, I want them to know that I am not some amazing virtuoso, but I am very devoted to practice and also to other people.

I also need help deciding to take the jump or not, it is probably my only chance to do this.

Well, thanks for listening friends at foroflamenco! [:D]



aleksi -> RE: Hey all! Now the time has come for me to really decide!(need help) (Mar. 2 2012 19:35:22)

quote:

I need to decide wether I should go to Spain and stay there for a while and try to study flamenco in some way, or stay here and do higher music education in classical guitar..


Hello odinz.
If these are your options I think you can find the answer quite easily. If you want to learn flamenco, go to Spain. If you want to learn to play classical guitar, stay home.
Simple as that.
If I had the change, I would choose go to Spain and learn flamenco.



odinz -> RE: Hey all! Now the time has come for me to really decide!(need help) (Mar. 2 2012 19:43:51)

Yeah that is what I really want to do as well...
The problem is finding contacts and an enviroment where I could learn alot and so on..
Wich is part of the reason I ask here as well, some members live in Spain so maybe some of them could teach or help me find a teacher etc..

There are alot of stuff like this, I am very inexperienced in life itself..

There came a time when I realized I need a network of friends to be able to function.
I dont have that now[8D]

*edit* I count that as one for.



Elie -> RE: Hey all! Now the time has come for me to really decide!(need help) (Mar. 2 2012 20:20:55)

if your objective is to be a musician in the future then go to Spain ... after gaining enough skills for teaching get back to Norway and teach or do gigs ... flamenco players charges a lot outside Spain while classic players are wide spread IMO
it all depends on your future [;)]



mecmachin -> RE: Hey all! Now the time has come for me to really decide!(need help) (Mar. 2 2012 20:32:04)

Hi odinz,

I have never been in situation like yours (not too bad), but here is what I think:
If you want to be professional guitar player (classical), I think Norway is a place where you can make a decent living of it (if you are good).

If you want to live flamenco, then no question this is in Andalucia. BTW 2000€ is a lot there, this would even allow you to go to Christina Heeren for example, as a starting point. But when you want to make a living of it, then you will probably have to go back to Norway (or elsewhere), and maybe it will difficult.

Most probably you already knew.



chester -> RE: Hey all! Now the time has come for me to really decide!(need help) (Mar. 2 2012 20:33:48)

It seems Seville is the place where a lot of people go to learn flamenco.

If you go there I can hook you up with a buddy of mine who is a successful accompanist, great guitarist, and overall really nice guy. I'm sure he'll get you started on your quest.

Shoot me a PM and I'll make it happen.

I say take the plunge. Life has a way of happening for you if you're not paying attention. Before you know it you'll have three kids and a mortgage and there's no way your boss will give you time off to chase some flamenco dream in Spain. [:D]



Munin -> RE: Hey all! Now the time has come for me to really decide!(need help) (Mar. 3 2012 0:11:30)

Honestly you can live like a king with 2000 euro a month in Spain...I lived comfortably on less than half than that.



akatune -> [Deleted] (Mar. 3 2012 3:07:19)

Post has been moved to the Recycle Bin at Jan. 4 2013 2:14:47



Anders Eliasson -> RE: Hey all! Now the time has come for me to really decide!(need help) (Mar. 3 2012 7:36:04)

If you go to Spain, put a little more than half of your money in the bank. You wont need 2000,-€ a month. I spend less than half and Spanish min. salary is around 470,-€ a month after taxes.
Rental.... depends on where and how. Your own flat in Seville around 5 - 700,-€ or you can rent a room in a shared flat for around 200 - 230,-€.
If you go to lets say Jerez, its a bit cheaper.

What to choose... your choice totally. I´ll just say one thing. IMHO you´ll get the most out of your stay here if you have a high level of flamenco. And if you have studied accompanying cante it´ll help a lot. And get a good level of Spanish as well. Learning flamenco in Spain without knowing the language is not something I´ll recommend.
It can easily be you sitting at home in your own flat, playing the guitar the whole day and going out at night getting pissed with the other foreigners. Fun for a while. Boring later on and maybe not the best way to learn flamenco.



Anders Eliasson -> RE: Hey all! Now the time has come for me to really decide!(need help) (Mar. 3 2012 7:37:15)

quote:

2) It is best to become good at one thing.


I dont agree.



Florian -> RE: Hey all! Now the time has come for me to really decide!(need help) (Mar. 3 2012 7:48:56)

i am sorry i cant be much help to you with anything definite as its a big decision, id have to know more about you and how you function and think and your goals..

but if you love flamenco and are in a position to do it, why not, do it now while you are young...if its not working out you could always come back and pursue higher education in classical

worst than anything is never even reaching for what you want...now you have to do some soul searching and find out what do YOU want, flamenco in spain or higher music education in classical guitar..surely must be leaning towards one a little more than the other



BarkellWH -> RE: Hey all! Now the time has come for me to really decide!(need help) (Mar. 3 2012 13:47:23)

quote:

If you go to Spain, put a little more than half of your money in the bank. You wont need 2000,-€ a month. I spend less than half and Spanish min. salary is around 470,-€ a month after taxes.
Rental.... depends on where and how. Your own flat in Seville around 5 - 700,-€ or you can rent a room in a shared flat for around 200 - 230,-€.
If you go to lets say Jerez, its a bit cheaper.

What to choose... your choice totally. I´ll just say one thing. IMHO you´ll get the most out of your stay here if you have a high level of flamenco. And if you have studied accompanying cante it´ll help a lot. And get a good level of Spanish as well. Learning flamenco in Spain without knowing the language is not something I´ll recommend.
It can easily be you sitting at home in your own flat, playing the guitar the whole day and going out at night getting pissed with the other foreigners. Fun for a while. Boring later on and maybe not the best way to learn flamenco.


Odinz -- My advice is to forget everyone's advice on this thread (including mine, after you have read this) except that offered by Anders, cited above. After reading many of Anders's comments on the Foro, I think he knows the situation in Spain better than anyone, particularly on how to make the most out of a visit limited in time and money, to get the most out of learning flamenco. I would agree with Anders totally that it is imperative that you have at least a basic working knowledge of Spanish. Without that, you will not get the most from your instruction, and (as Anders points out) it will be easy to fall into the trap of going out with the foreign community every night.

Everyone's comments in response to your query have value, but Anders's comment is the most succinct. If reaching a basic, working-level in Spanish language and a basic ability playing flamenco guitar means you must hold off your visit until, say, next year, it would be worth it.

Cheers,

Bill



gbv1158 -> RE: Hey all! Now the time has come for me to really decide!(need help) (Mar. 3 2012 14:06:00)

quote:

Odinz -- My advice is to forget everyone's advice on this thread (including mine, after you have read this) except that offered by Anders, cited above. After reading many of Anders's comments on the Foro, I think he knows the situation in Spain better than anyone, particularly on how to make the most out of a visit limited in time and money, to get the most out of learning flamenco. I would agree with Anders totally that it is imperative that you have at least a basic working knowledge of Spanish. Without that, you will not get the most from your instruction, and (as Anders points out) it will be easy to fall into the trap of going out with the foreign community every night.

Everyone's comments in response to your query have value, but Anders's comment is the most succinct. If reaching a basic, working-level in Spanish language and a basic ability playing flamenco guitar means you must hold off your visit until, say, next year, it would be worth it.


Jonas, Bill is right! : follow the advice of Anders.

ciao,
giambattista



mezzo -> RE: Hey all! Now the time has come for me to really decide!(need help) (Mar. 3 2012 14:09:07)

Anders is right [:)]

quote:

If you go to lets say Jerez...


if you want to learn flamenco guitar Jerez IS the place to go!



changue -> RE: Hey all! Now the time has come for me to really decide!(need help) (Mar. 3 2012 18:43:45)

Greetings odinz - I took a job teaching English in Spain when I was in my twenties. I had no knowledge of Spanish and had to learn quick. One of the best experiences of my life and it got me hooked on flamenco. If you can, try and learn a bit of Spanish before you go and/or put some of your budget towards a Spanish language course when you get there you'll be able to get much more from the experience. Now's the time!
Incidentally, in El Pais recently there was an article about unemployed Spanish workers learning Norwegian from a Norwegian man retired to Spain. Their plan was to seek work in Norway. So, it is just possible that your native language might also be useful.
Good luck, whatever you choose to do.
Changue



Anders Eliasson -> RE: Hey all! Now the time has come for me to really decide!(need help) (Mar. 4 2012 7:09:27)

changues´s idea is good.
Starting with a 1month intensive language course, not thinking to much about flamenco but focussing on the language will let you learn flamenco and Spanish a lot faster at a later point of your stay.

¿Anyone wants to learn Danish? ( rødgrød med fløde)



odinz -> RE: Hey all! Now the time has come for me to really decide!(need help) (Mar. 4 2012 18:38:35)

Hey Anders, you talked about learning spanish the last time I asked about living in Spain since I considered it then, so I have taken it to heart and I am starting a Spanish language class soon.

You say that I would get the most out of my stay if I have a high level of flamenco, I cant say I have a very high level in the art of flamenco, but this is why I also want to move to learn.
One of the things I really want to be is a good accompanist.
I just cant see myself being able to learn those skills or find anyone to execute those skills with where I live right now.
Is this an unreasonable way to think of me or do you think I would be able to develop better in spain than what I can here?


Also I see alot of people, including you saying that I have enough money each month to live comfortably, is this really true?

I really do want to make this jump and move, but there is something really scary about it at the same time, in the way that I will be all alone there.
Thanks for throwing more info and tips my way!



odinz -> RE: Hey all! Now the time has come for me to really decide!(need help) (Mar. 4 2012 18:43:47)

Hey, changue!

Ive heard about people from spain coming to norway to find work, I wouldnt mind helping people out either.
I did put myself on a spanish class as well, will begin soon..
I really want to go, hopefully I will be able to experience many things as well..



Anders Eliasson -> RE: Hey all! Now the time has come for me to really decide!(need help) (Mar. 4 2012 19:20:31)

Money is a personal thing. But most spanish your age get along fine with 5 - 700,-€ a month. (not incl. a thing like guitar classes.)
These days they get along with nothing because more than 50% under 26 years are unemployed and live with their mum and dad.....
People working in the administration for decades earn 1200 - 1500,-€ a month after taxes and they have families, houses, cars, kids, dogs etc.

I´ll repeat the advice of doing your first month with emphasis on an intensive spanish course and focus on the guitar afterwards. You´ll have fun and be so much more prepared for the real world.

With the money you have, its a waste of time to think so much. Just go ahead. DO IT.



Anders Eliasson -> RE: Hey all! Now the time has come for me to really decide!(need help) (Mar. 4 2012 19:40:32)

Another way of looking at things.
Now that you have the money, why not use it???
After the 1 month spanish course (you´ll need dude), take a full year or 2 on the Christina Hereen foundation in Sevilla. After that you´ll know things and be ready to fly.



Doitsujin -> RE: Hey all! Now the time has come for me to really decide!(need help) (Mar. 4 2012 20:01:14)

I suggest to forget about becoming a musician. Go for engineering.



hamia -> RE: Hey all! Now the time has come for me to really decide!(need help) (Mar. 5 2012 0:57:29)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Anders Eliasson

changues´s idea is good.
Starting with a 1month intensive language course, not thinking to much about flamenco but focussing on the language will let you learn flamenco and Spanish a lot faster at a later point of your stay.

¿Anyone wants to learn Danish? ( rødgrød med fløde)


I watched The Killing recently and was amused to discover that a good part of Danish seems to be a mixture of Geordie and German. Fragments of sentences even sound identical to what someone from Newcastle would say - eg "out the house". I wouldn't be surprised if the numbers of students studying Danish has increased because of that program.



Anders Eliasson -> RE: Hey all! Now the time has come for me to really decide!(need help) (Mar. 5 2012 7:24:05)

Danish sounds like a horrible mix of whatever, but the fact is that its nordic and the close links are to norwegian and swedish



Munin -> RE: Hey all! Now the time has come for me to really decide!(need help) (Mar. 5 2012 9:29:10)

I think based on the experience of my time at Carmen, the following approach would make sense - it worked well for me back then, because I came to Spain with very little knowledge of the language and even less local acquaintances.

Join a school (Carmen in Granada or those in Sevilla - but dunno which of those offer language courses too) for 1-2 months. Take some language and guitar classes. That gives you a solid basis in the use of the language, as well as daily access to flamencos who can point you in the right direction if you are later looking for private classes, networking, etc. And you'll make friends with other people having similar goals as you, which can be motivating (but be sure to not stick among international people all the time as said earlier).

Then after those 1-2 months are up you can choose to go rogue, take private classes, try to get involved with the locals, check out other cities for their flamenco, etc. while you have the comfort of an existing social network and basic language skills.

I think coming to Spain with little knowledge of the language, no local acquaintances and nothing to guide you in the beginning can be a bit daunting, which is why I recommend this approach. Maybe you don't need it if you're super outgoing or already an astounding player, but otherwise, it makes sense to me.



El Kiko -> RE: Hey all! Now the time has come for me to really decide!(need help) (Mar. 5 2012 11:21:46)

quote:

and was amused to discover that a good part of Danish seems to be a mixture of Geordie and German

isnt that the other way around ?, that Geordie came in part from Danish cos they invaded there and lived and settled also the great King Canute had to do with this region , and so bits of their language was left ..I would think its a mixture of Scottish / English/ Danish myself.....


quote:

I suggest to forget about becoming a musician. Go for engineering.

I think this is good advice ... keep it as a hobby ......



hamia -> RE: Hey all! Now the time has come for me to really decide!(need help) (Mar. 5 2012 13:21:09)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rico_Kiko

quote:

and was amused to discover that a good part of Danish seems to be a mixture of Geordie and German

isnt that the other way around ?, that Geordie came in part from Danish cos they invaded there and lived and settled also the great King Canute had to do with this region , and so bits of their language was left ..I would think its a mixture of Scottish / English/ Danish myself.....


quote:

I suggest to forget about becoming a musician. Go for engineering.

I think this is good advice ... keep it as a hobby ......


Yes, the Danes relentlessly terrorized the east coast of England for hundreds of years. They've got a lot to answer for to be honest ....



Anders Eliasson -> RE: Hey all! Now the time has come for me to really decide!(need help) (Mar. 5 2012 15:18:14)

Back then it was considered to be civilizing a part of the world. History always change. Danes are modern now. Instead of civilizing an area with our best men and woman, now we conquer the same area just by sending tons of salted and smoked pigmeat the same way.



El Kiko -> RE: Hey all! Now the time has come for me to really decide!(need help) (Mar. 5 2012 16:48:29)

The most Popular main dish in Portugal is Bacalhau , very traditional ,, it's dried salted Cod fish .. but now most of it comes from Denmark and up there, not very traditional at all........



Guest -> [Deleted] (Mar. 5 2012 16:58:51)

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aleksi -> RE: Hey all! Now the time has come for me to really decide!(need help) (Mar. 5 2012 18:01:46)

quote:

.Once you settle down with wife and kids etc you will never be able to realize your dream........

OMG! dont say that man! you are braking my dreams [:D]
Making the dreams come true is possible even with the family, but I admit its a bit more complicated then. Need more money, the right time, right circumstances, convince the wife , and just to do that takes years [:D]



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