what's up with the autographs? (Full Version)

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Rmn -> what's up with the autographs? (Jan. 3 2012 10:09:21)

I am wondering why so many good players (especially young players) have these really ugly autographs on their guitars (ususally condes)?
(or maybe just on their Valencia conde, because doesn't matter anyway...)



XXX -> RE: what's up with the autographs? (Jan. 3 2012 10:30:17)

is this a riddle? IS the answer "42"?



Rmn -> RE: what's up with the autographs? (Jan. 3 2012 10:32:53)

haha, no. i am really wondering that. and i really think its damn ugly
what do you guys think about these autographs?



XXX -> RE: what's up with the autographs? (Jan. 3 2012 10:43:54)

I guess it can have different meanings. It can show that you respect an artist very much, it can be a memory from a memorable (haha) concert, it can be a way to say "thanks for the inspiration"... i dont see anything negative in that, it actually emotionally connects the object guitar to what you love doing, your guitar playing. (to smartass a little, lol)
Well, of course except in those cases where it is just meant to show off, thats just lame and means you were able to get an autograph, which is not really a big achievement.[:D]

but hey, for me a guitar is really just a guitar. If there are some scribblings on it or not, i really dont care, i also dont think that autographs make the guitar ugly or so. But thats me, i can understand if someone thinks different in that regard. The only thing i dont like is when the guitar is used as a symbol of individuality of your art, like Willie Nelson does i think. The art of oneself should always be in the music, not in some objects like the guitar.



Pgh_flamenco -> RE: what's up with the autographs? (Jan. 3 2012 11:31:47)

quote:

I am wondering why so many good players (especially young players) have these really ugly autographs on their guitars


Are you referring to PDL's signature? I've seen this a number of times recently. These guys usually spray clear coat over it or put a piece of golpeador on it to make it permanent.



Ricardo -> RE: what's up with the autographs? (Jan. 3 2012 14:14:55)

We discussed this a few times before. I can't find all the threads about it. Basically, young gitanos follow trends such as fashion, jewelry, hair style, letras, etc etc....Manuel Morao had his guitar signed by Picasso in 1961. Now the trend is to get PDL sig and on one bout of the guitar top, and tomatito on the other. I am surprised being in Sevilla you have not picked up on the way gitanos are. This goes for non spain gitanos too....look at the gipsy jazz guys for example or the french rumba guys. The funniest thing I have seen is these Romanian gipsies in my area that all play guitar and they all know how to play the exact same Alex Fox song. (Alex fox is a cheesy fakemenko guy from MIami FL). The reason these trends take such a strong hold on youth in gitano communites because of the arranged engagement parties and weddings and stuff like that.

http://www.foroflamenco.com/tm.asp?m=57570&appid=&p=&mpage=1&key=paco%2Cpena%2Cautograph&tmode=&smode=&s=#57603
Ricardo



Rmn -> RE: what's up with the autographs? (Jan. 3 2012 15:24:55)

thanks for the explanation Ricardo. I did a search before on the forum with "autograph" but didn't find this thread.

quote:

I am surprised being in Sevilla you have not picked up on the way gitanos are.

there aren't (m)any gitanos here really. all the gitanos i've seen performing were from lebrija, moron, cadiz or utrera. many gitanos in the cheap market at sunday across the river selling whatever they could and ripping you off, but these are from the villages and like house and trance music.

I'm quite in the middle of everything everyday, and having daily at least 10 (up to 24) hours of flamenco social interaction and haven't noticed many gitanos.
there is a bit of misunderstanding and romanticizing in my opinion about flamenco, gypsies etc.

the people that make flamenco possible in sevilla are really the people from outside it. these are the people that are interested and enjoy it the most.
you can really notice that in these times: zero flamenco. because sevillianos like sevillianas and zambombaz and the flamencos here right now are visiting their parents in: Chile, Israel, Valencia, Belgium, Poland, Germany, Catalonia, Madrid etc . even the dancers that have their schools here and stuff are mostly not from andalucia



Rmn -> RE: what's up with the autographs? (Jan. 3 2012 15:35:58)

anyway, it's not THAT bad. I had a lot of fun for example with some oldies demanding me on the street to take the guitar out of the case and accompany them singing letras. but you know there is a certain point in my text above...

so yeah... autographs on guitars... [8|][&o]



Arash -> RE: what's up with the autographs? (Jan. 3 2012 18:13:22)

http://www.foroflamenco.com/tm.asp?m=135601



Richard Jernigan -> RE: what's up with the autographs? (Jan. 3 2012 19:41:12)

Picasso notoriously grabbed Manitas de Plata's guitar in a fit of enthusiasm and drew a mounted picador on it. One of my friends said, "Hell, if Manitas were a real flamenco, he would have socked Picasso in the jaw for messing up his guitar!"

Opinions vary....

RNJ



RTC -> RE: what's up with the autographs? (Jan. 4 2012 3:24:47)

Richard;

Where is this guitar now? It would be awesome to see it.
I could only imagine the value.....



elroby -> [Deleted] (Jan. 4 2012 4:27:56)

Post has been moved to the Recycle Bin at May 5 2012 4:16:49



marduk -> RE: what's up with the autographs? (Jan. 4 2012 14:56:42)

quote:


is this a riddle? IS the answer "42"?


yep... the answer was 42



BarkellWH -> RE: what's up with the autographs? (Jan. 4 2012 15:34:09)

quote:

Picasso notoriously grabbed Manitas de Plata's guitar in a fit of enthusiasm and drew a mounted picador on it. One of my friends said, "Hell, if Manitas were a real flamenco, he would have socked Picasso in the jaw for messing up his guitar!"


There is a YouTube video, taken in 1968 or 1969, of Manitas de Plata playing for Bigitte Bardot (Key words: Manitas de Plata y Brigitte Bardot), who was his paramour at the time. (BB looks as cute and sexy as ever in the video, sucking on her finger, playing with her hair, and giving adoring looks to Manitas!) The guitar Manitas is playing has a couple of Matadors drawn on the upper bout and something on the lower bout that I cannot make out. I wonder if that is the guitar on which Picasso drew his picador? In any case, Manitas must have liked drawings on his guitar because there are several of them.

Guitar drawings and Manitas's flamenco ability aside, when I see that video and Brigitte Bardot's response to his playing, all I can think of is no girl ever looked at me and responded in that way!

Cheers,

Bill



kudo -> RE: what's up with the autographs? (Jan. 8 2012 21:37:39)

check this out




Dedos -> RE: what's up with the autographs? (Jan. 10 2012 1:35:09)

I got the itch back in 1972 to get Paulino Bernabe's signature on the outside of the guitar he had just made for me but I had him sign on the back. He thought it was quite novel at the time and not a little bit eccentric, but he was always up to do something different. I don't know what possessed me to contort my hand that way...blame it on the wine, I guess.



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