RE: The gift of pain (Full Version)

Foro Flamenco: http://www.foroflamenco.com/
- Discussions: http://www.foroflamenco.com/default.asp?catApp=0
- - General: http://www.foroflamenco.com/in_forum.asp?forumid=13
- - - RE: The gift of pain: http://www.foroflamenco.com/fb.asp?m=186109



Message


rombsix -> RE: The gift of pain (Dec. 28 2011 23:38:17)

quote:

I was harping way too hard on picado that day.


The famous culprit...




elroby -> [Deleted] (Dec. 29 2011 1:07:26)

Post has been moved to the Recycle Bin at May 5 2012 4:17:05




HolyEvil -> RE: The gift of pain (Dec. 29 2011 4:09:25)

rest it todd.. you're too good a player to let injuries screw your playing up..
rest.. even for a year.. and after that rest period you can have years of enjoyment on the guitar, rather than not resting enough and screwing your hand over forever..




duende -> RE: The gift of pain (Dec. 29 2011 4:22:24)

Take it easy Todd.

Once the pain goes away it´s way to easy to get back into old playing habits.
Let it rest.

Maybe its a good idea to playing some other style of playing when you get into it again
not useing the same muscles. Maybe electric guitar useing a pick.

its scary stuff.

My problems has stayed away for about 10 years i hope i never experience that stuff again.




ToddK -> RE: The gift of pain (Dec. 31 2011 1:30:05)

update;

not playing obviously. Taking prescribed nsaids (ibuprofen)

Not using the hand at all.

Its getting worse and more painful everyday. Today its almost unbearable.
My hand, fingers, are starting to swell. Ice massage is not helping.
Thinking about going to the emergency room if its any worse tomorrow.
I think my flamenco guitar days are over.




rombsix -> RE: The gift of pain (Dec. 31 2011 1:44:33)

quote:

update;

not playing obviously. Taking prescribed nsaids (ibuprofen)

Not using the hand at all.

Its getting worse and more painful everyday. Today its almost unbearable.
My hand, fingers, are starting to swell. Ice massage is not helping.
Thinking about going to the emergency room if its any worse tomorrow.
I think my flamenco guitar days are over.


Mate, I can call you and we can talk a bit just so I can get a better idea of what is going on - I am in the USA now. You say you were prescribed NSAIDs - what was the diagnosis you were given by the orthopedic surgeon that you saw?

If you feel you are starting to get numbness or cold sensation in your hand, or it just becomes too scary looking, just go directly to the emergency department.

I hope you get better my friend!




Pgh_flamenco -> RE: The gift of pain (Dec. 31 2011 1:57:44)

quote:

Its getting worse and more painful everyday. Today its almost unbearable.
My hand, fingers, are starting to swell. Ice massage is not helping.
Thinking about going to the emergency room if its any worse tomorrow.
I think my flamenco guitar days are over.


Todd, do you think one of your tendons slipped out of place near/on the knuckle? I had this happen a few years ago when I applied to much force doing IM picado. The pain was bad and got worse over time. The same day this happened I decided to lift weights. Since I was using wrist wraps to avoid placing most of the weight on my fingers I figured I wouldn't have any issues. I was doing shrugs with 350 lbs and I heard a snap. I figured out what had happened pretty quickly. The tendon on my M finger had slipped back into its proper position above the knuckle. The pain was gone immediately. Maybe you should run this past a physical therapist, chiropractor, sports physiologist, etc., for a different perspective?




rombsix -> RE: The gift of pain (Dec. 31 2011 2:04:36)

quote:

Todd, do you think one of your tendons slipped out of place near/on the knuckle? I had this happen a few years ago when I applied to much force doing IM picado. The pain was bad and got worse over time. The same day this happened I decided to lift weights. Since I was using wrist wraps to avoid placing most of the weight on my fingers I figured I wouldn't have any issues. I was doing shrugs with 350 lbs and I heard a snap. I figured out what had happened pretty quickly. The tendon on my M finger had slipped back into its proper position above the knuckle. The pain was gone immediately. Maybe you should run this past a physical therapist, chiropractor, sports physiologist, etc., for a different perspective?


Mate - I'm sorry, but I have a feeling what Todd is describing is something acute or sub-acute, and hence would benefit from immediate care (including some imaging modality), unless he is being overly anxious and making the issue seem more serious than it is. I really have no clue what went on with Todd's visit to the orthopedic surgeon!




n85ae -> RE: The gift of pain (Dec. 31 2011 2:18:57)

Such Drama, just go to a Doctor.

Jeff




ToddK -> RE: The gift of pain (Dec. 31 2011 2:19:41)

Havent been to Ortho yet, i could only see my primary care doc this week.

I have to see him first, to get referred to an Ortho who takes my insurance.
I thought i had a chance to get that accomplished this week, but it didnt happen.
I see the Ortho on wednsday.

PCP didnt have a definative diagnosis. She said its "Most likely" tendonitis.
Said not to move it, and gave me Ibuprofen.

Typing with one hand is no fun. :)




ToddK -> RE: The gift of pain (Dec. 31 2011 2:22:31)

quote:

Such Drama, just go to a Doctor.


You're right! Sorry. I did go to the doctor, just not a good one apparently.

I apologize for the drama. I come here for moral support. I feel better
talking to friends.

Again i apologize.




n85ae -> RE: The gift of pain (Dec. 31 2011 2:36:51)

Todd -

Your Doc probably is right btw. it probably is just tendonitis. Try to
remember, healing isn't a quick fix situation.

No need to apologize. I'd say your issue is you're trying to cram 10 years
right hand development into 1 year to catch up with you left hand.
Which is NOT going to happen. It takes time for muscle's and tendons
to develop. You can pick like a demon, but you don't have the right hand
developed from working it for years like a normal Flamenco guitar player.
So you're pushing it too hard and it's breaking down.

It seemed obvious that you got an atitude about doing it the normal way
(with fingers) but way super fast, like you were trying to make this point,
when you dropped the pick, that you could have super right hand technique
in just a short time. The trap is, since your left hand and mind can go to
the speed, you just forced the issue, but your hand simply isn't ready.

If your hand does recover take it as a lesson learned. It's not a race.

Regards,
Jeff

quote:

You're right! Sorry. I did go to the doctor, just not a good one apparently.

I apologize for the drama. I come here for moral support. I feel better
talking to friends.

Again i apologize.




ToddK -> RE: The gift of pain (Dec. 31 2011 2:46:46)

quote:

Todd -

Your Doc probably is right btw. it probably is just tendonitis. Try to
remember, healing isn't a quick fix situation.

No need to apologize. I'd say your issue is you're trying to cram 10 years
right hand development into 1 year to catch up with you left hand.
Which is NOT going to happen. It takes time for muscle's and tendons
to develop. You can pick like a demon, but you don't have the right hand
developed from working it for years like a normal Flamenco guitar player.
So you're pushing it too hard and it's breaking down.

It seemed obvious that you got an atitude about doing it the normal way
(with fingers) but way super fast, like you were trying to make this point,
when you dropped the pick, that you could have super right hand technique
in just a short time. The trap is, since your left hand and mind can go to
the speed, you just forced the issue, but your hand simply isn't ready.

If your hand does recover take it as a lesson learned. It's not a race.

Regards,
Jeff


What brought this on was actually less practice time, and going too hard
when i did have time. Not forcing anything on purpose.
You seem angry with me, and im not sure why. I apologize if i ever
said things to offend you in any way.

I really just want my hand to be ok, so i can keep doing what i love.
Im not interested in proving anything to anybody.
Thank Jeff




n85ae -> RE: The gift of pain (Dec. 31 2011 3:01:05)

After almost 6 years on this forum ...

Your last reply to something I posted went: "I personally could care less
what you think" :)

Seriously, I do hope your hand recovers.

quote:

You seem angry with me, and im not sure why. I apologize if i ever
said things to offend you in any way




RTC -> RE: The gift of pain (Dec. 31 2011 3:02:54)

Todd:
I am sure you are frustrated, I am not qualified to give any opinion but I am qualified to wish you the best.
I wish you a prompt and complete recovery.




ToddK -> RE: The gift of pain (Dec. 31 2011 3:06:06)

quote:

Your last reply to something I posted went: "I personally could care less
what you think" :)


I sincerely apologize for that. I can be a real idiot sometimes.

Probably does serve me right to have hand issues. Maybe this
will force me to grow up.

Again, sorry Jeff.

Im gonna talk to Romb via PM and spare everybody the medical drama.
I'll report back at some point when i have definative diagnosis.
T




n85ae -> RE: The gift of pain (Dec. 31 2011 3:27:32)

No problem, wish my wife said that once in a while ... :)

quote:

I sincerely apologize for that. I can be a real idiot sometimes.




Guest -> RE: The gift of pain (Dec. 31 2011 6:56:56)

Really sorry to hear about the ailment Todd.
Some good advice here and really have not much to offer that has'nt been said.
But wishing you a speedy recovery and a healthy mind set...understanding this must be incredibly emotionally draining.
All the best.
A




mezzo -> RE: The gift of pain (Dec. 31 2011 9:51:10)

quote:

I think my flamenco guitar days are over.

Damn Tood I hope this not going to happen anytime soon [X(]
I wish you the best.




Ron.M -> RE: The gift of pain (Dec. 31 2011 10:29:04)

Hi Todd,

I agree with Ramzi that you are getting yourself really down and over-anxious, which is understandable since your guitar playing is so fundamental to your life.

If the same thing had happened to your ankle or something you'd be hobbling around feeling a bit irritated but not too concerned.

Wait and see what the specialist says first and don't brood on things like "my Flamenco days are over" etc 'cos you don't know that.

You are just imagining the very worst outcome in your anxiety. (I know because I'm going through a similar thing ATM)

It's not like you've lost your hand or fingers in a chainsaw accident and there is every hope that this is just a temporary condition which will be treatable, so try not to dwell on or torture yourself with imaginary gloomy outcomes. OK?

cheers,

Ron




mrMagenta -> RE: The gift of pain (Dec. 31 2011 12:44:40)

Because we're sharing similar difficulties I can go on a bit about what I've found to give me relief.. I don't think there is a silver bullet to these things, but...

Ice massage seems to give some relief when the tendon gets irritated. Use common sense, move the ice around so you don't freeze the skin. Cooling gels with menthol also seem to ease the irritation. I use theese after I have done something that kicks on the irritation.

Contrast baths feel good too. Espacially if you end with cold, let it rest for a while, then apply a topical heating gel, something with capsaicin and camphor. Again.. these things feel good. I would like to think they speed up recovery.. but who knows. Might not do anything.. still. It feels somehow proactive to do these things. And relieves pain.

What believe might have the most effect is whole body exercise. Doing something that increases pulse and sweating etc. Increased circulation probably helps speed up recovery. Same rational as for contast baths and topical heating gels, but I think exercise must be more effective. Just don't do motions that cause irritation.

At night, we tend to sleep with our wrists bent, which can be bad for tendonitis etc. For me there's distinctly more pain if I don't fix the wrist at night. I either wrap my hand and wrist using elastic wrapping, how to do it can be found on othopedic videos, or use an orthopedic thumb-base brace.. I alternate, because each gets uncomfortable in some way..

The best topical creams I've found so far are, Golden Cup Balm from Thailand, and Ice Power from Finland. But these products are usually very similar..




Ruphus -> RE: The gift of pain (Dec. 31 2011 12:52:03)

If it is tendonitis, hence causally a muscular issue, then envision that it can be overcomed. The more treated on spot, the faster. ( With efficient muscle prolonging exercise usually providing relief within just 1-3 weeks, and further achieving extraordinary strong and healthy condition within only a few months.)

Don´t worry about yourself complaining; after all it is only understandable that one becomes terribly worried.
But don´t let pain and anger bring you down and try to stay optimistic.

Chances for recovery will likely be prevailing and your talent and years of engagement not be lost.

Best,

Ruphus




Ruphus -> RE: The gift of pain (Dec. 31 2011 12:55:55)

quote:

ORIGINAL: mrMagenta

At night, we tend to sleep with our wrists bent, ...


Such seems to be enhanced with lack of magnesium.

Ruphus




duende -> RE: The gift of pain (Dec. 31 2011 13:11:30)

quote:

What believe might have the most effect is whole body exercise. Doing something that increases pulse and sweating etc. Increased circulation probably helps speed up recovery.


For me that was very very helpful. Good health helps a lot of things. Not just get rid of tummy fat and strengthen your heart




Miguel de Maria -> RE: The gift of pain (Feb. 29 2012 4:29:55)

Todd,
I just came here and found this post of yours, because a friend who had wanted to take lessons with you told me you had hurt your hand. My reply to him was, "He was probably overdoing the picado, right?" :(

Back when I was accumulating my impressive post-count here, I was practicing picado anywhere from 2-4 hours a day. Actually, what I was doing was playing the lines from Panaderos Flamencos over and over again with a metronome, always trying to go higher and higher. I used a lot of ibuprofen during this time. My wife had bought one of those giant ibuprofen bottles from Costco and was shocked one time to find it empty!

I managed to get a nasty case of tendinitis in the m finger. Because I was already getting a lot of gigs, this became a serious problem. My solution was to refinger all my pieces to avoid m nearly completely and use a, instead. Did you know you can play Recuerdos del Alhambra without your middle finger? The middle joint of that finger was visibly enlarged and it always hurt. At the time, we were getting our house ready to sell, and every bit of handiwork I did exacerbated the problem. Although I was able to play my music without the middle finger, that joint never really got better, as its sympathetic movement did not allow it to properly rest.

You are already scared, I am sure, but let me tell you about a local rumbero here, who is my age. He was known for playing very hard, and I may have related the story on the foro about his borrowing my Vicente Carrillo and managing to break a string in only one song, right before I was supposed to go on for a little concert! In any case, years later, he has had 7 surgeries on his right hand due to tendinitis and related problems. He had trigger finger and the fingers would get stuck sometimes while playing, too.

As for me, my tendinitis went away after I stopped practicing picado. I have been studying classical the last several years, and it has been easier on my hands. Part of it has been a significant de-emphasis on trying to acquire virtuosic technique. It's hard to do that in flamenco, when nearly every cut has someone ripping out brilliant, scintillating picado runs, which acts as a siren-song to many of us guitarists. Classical guitarists get plenty of hand injuries too, though--I know two local gigging CGers who have had major, permanent damage--tremolo might be the main culprit!

Todd, it sounds like have been scared straight and are taking the necessary precautions to stop damaging yourself and getting healed. If you put the same dedication and energy into getting at the root of the problem and solving it, I have no doubt you will solve it. I wish you the best and--can you believe that someone, a very good guitarist himself, told me he thought you were the best guitarist in the world? Our little Todd! :) Get well soon!!!

PS: A brand new Shelton-Farretta guitar showed up on my doorstep a couple of weeks ago. I have to admit my hands are a little sore... I better be careful!




Guest -> [Deleted] (Feb. 29 2012 5:39:11)

[Deleted by Admins]




ToddK -> RE: The gift of pain (Feb. 29 2012 17:38:02)

Miguel, wow man! You dissappeared for so long, i was wondering
if i'd ever hear from you again.

So great to hear you're still kickin'! :)

Those are some wise words. I have been away from the guitar for
2 months now, and in therapy 3 times a week. I made the decision from
day 1 to fight this injury full on, and not screw around.

So, im doing just that. ITs taken all the discipline and mental strength i have
to stay away from playing, and to do my exercises and stretches everyday.
But thank God, its working.
At this point, i am in zero pain, and feel much stronger than before because
of all the therapy, which is mainly strength training.
So i am very very happy with where i am.

I'm starting to play a bit this week and its going great. I have just changed my
approach.
I dont play without doing some stretching and cardio workout first.
No playing if my hands are cold.
No playing for more than 15 minutes without a break. 15 on, 10 off.
No spending more than 1 minute on a single technique.
For the next month, no isolated picado practice.

I know that if i stick to my workouts, and practice rules, i will absolutely be ok.
My grip strength is so much better now, and its amazing the difference i feel
in the right hand. Cant believe i didnt discover this before.

Im so incredibly happy to be on the other side of this, and knowing in my heart that will be able to play for many years to come.
I pray and thank God every single day for that great gift, and i will NEVER take
anything for granted again.

Take care of that middle knuckle Miguel!!!! Do whatever you have to do.
I wish you the best man!
Saludos!
TK




Ron.M -> RE: The gift of pain (Feb. 29 2012 18:09:46)

Sounds good Todd!

Hey Miguel!! Long time no hear! Hope everything's OK with you.

Todd...plenty time to develop them thumb falsetas... [;)]

cheers,

Ron




duende -> RE: The gift of pain (Feb. 29 2012 20:30:21)

That the best posts i´ve read in a long time.

great news Todd

and big Hello! to Miguel.

skål

Henrik




Doitsujin -> RE: The gift of pain (Feb. 29 2012 22:38:14)

Sounds great Todd. I'm happy that such a great player like you recovers from that injury. May you stay pain-free. Such things really suck.




Page: <<   <   1 [2] 3    >   >>

Valid CSS!




Forum Software powered by ASP Playground Advanced Edition 2.0.5
Copyright © 2000 - 2003 ASPPlayground.NET