RE: About rosettes (Full Version)

Foro Flamenco: http://www.foroflamenco.com/
- Discussions: http://www.foroflamenco.com/default.asp?catApp=0
- - Lutherie: http://www.foroflamenco.com/in_forum.asp?forumid=22
- - - RE: About rosettes: http://www.foroflamenco.com/fb.asp?m=165620



Message


Andy Culpepper -> RE: About rosettes (Mar. 1 2012 23:43:03)

The Esteso rosette that Orson posted has been in the back of my mind since this thread.
These are not copies of it by any means but a couple of rosettes I've done recently that were inspired by that one.



Images are resized automatically to a maximum width of 800px




Andy Culpepper -> RE: About rosettes (Mar. 1 2012 23:44:42)

and a bit more colorful one... this was for kind a of a special guitar, a commission from my luthery teacher, more on that later (it's an amazing guitar)



Images are resized automatically to a maximum width of 800px




Ramon Amira -> [Deleted] (May 21 2012 17:51:58)

Post has been moved to the Recycle Bin at May 22 2012 0:31:09




TANúñez -> RE: About rosettes (May 21 2012 18:28:29)

Nice old school rosettes. I dig em' Andy.




Flamingrae -> [Deleted] (Jun. 8 2012 0:45:27)

Post has been moved to the Recycle Bin at Jun. 8 2012 0:51:17




Flamingrae -> RE: About rosettes (Jun. 8 2012 0:58:31)

Ok just to add a few bits - some variations on what I'e done before and one because life is once and I can.







Images are resized automatically to a maximum width of 800px




tri7/5 -> RE: About rosettes (Jun. 8 2012 13:09:58)

The bottom one is definitely different but in a good way. I'd like to see that one a guitar to see how it flows with the rest of the instrument.




Andy Culpepper -> RE: About rosettes (Jun. 8 2012 13:20:05)

Thanks Tom.
Nice ones Flamingrae, I like your designs a lot. Is the bottom one for a steel string?

Here's one that I made.. I might keep using it for a while. It kinda matches my headstock design.



Images are resized automatically to a maximum width of 800px




Flamingrae -> RE: About rosettes (Jun. 9 2012 10:27:17)

quote:

Is the bottom one for a steel string?


Thanks for the comps, Dyingsea and Andy. Good zigzag on the middle section Andy.

I can see why you might have thought that. I've just taken the middle out and put bracing in. It will be a blanca and it's really to go with some machine heads that I got last year. It might sound a bit corny, but we are in year of the dragon and last year I got machine heads with a dragon one side and a phoenix the other. The scaly design I've had for a while and have a few more up my sleeve. The rest of the guitar will have self bindings with some more of the green white purfling. I'm having a year of putting things together that are a bit out of the ordinary. I may never make anything like this again, but that is part of the fun. The trick is making it work with the rest and not over-egging the pudding. I'll maybe get around to making a plain guitar one day.
BTW. Top rosette is a standard, middle one is for a concert Uke[;)]




Gimar -> RE: About rosettes (Jun. 12 2012 21:51:36)

started my very first rosette a while ago, though it's not finished yet, here's where I'm at right now...



Images are resized automatically to a maximum width of 800px




Andy Culpepper -> RE: About rosettes (Jun. 12 2012 22:11:44)

Gimar, I LOVE it man. It's not easy to get a complex tile perfectly aligned like that. Great design too. This thread is kinda like the falseta swap shop for luthiers now [sm=Smiley Guitar.gif]




Flamingrae -> RE: About rosettes (Jun. 13 2012 11:09:58)

Oh yes - once you have done your own there is no turning back. Nice one .....Go Go Gimar.




Gimar -> RE: About rosettes (Jun. 13 2012 11:47:13)

thnx guys! I'll start a building thread in a while for my 2nd blanca.

I made some easy jigs to help me thickness the veneers and cut-off strip.
Basically i took a piece of wood, routed a 0,5mm deep channel, I then put a small violin makers plane on top while i pull the veneer strips out of the channel. Easiest way i could think of to make each strip the same thickness, also found that using a small plane works alof faster that a scraper.

and in the picture i posted you can see the jig i use to taper the tiles. I planed 1 side straight along the centre line of the rosette. I then place the tile in the channel, right agains the side, and the side sticking out i sand off with a simple sanding stick.




fm1328 -> RE: About rosettes (Jun. 15 2012 18:27:44)

Stunningly beautiful ! Thanks for sharing it.




fm1328 -> RE: About rosettes (Jun. 15 2012 18:30:04)

Well I definitely envy you. I've read and watched so many but never succeeded in building mosaics mentally let alone practically.




estebanana -> RE: About rosettes (Aug. 17 2012 19:56:59)

Here's an outtake photo from the next rosette video which should be edited and ready to show in a few days.
I'm going to go further into the inlay process.



Images are resized automatically to a maximum width of 800px




Leñador -> RE: About rosettes (Aug. 17 2012 20:33:25)

Cant wait for the video! The last one was great. Rosettes may as well be magic as far as I'm concerned. [:D]




ralexander -> RE: About rosettes (Aug. 18 2012 12:41:09)

quote:

Cant wait for the video! The last one was great. Rosettes may as well be magic as far as I'm concerned.


haha +1 [:D]

Just found out the rosette that Stephen posted above is all mine!! Muhahahahahah! Wow, I really love it [:)] These oud inspired rosettes are special IMO.




Flamingrae -> RE: About rosettes (Feb. 4 2014 0:24:50)

Small batch of new ones for me using what I have to hand. Got a job lot of the herring bone binding so I made up some new tiles to go. Maybe a little dark overall, but it's all an ongoing process of variations upon a theme. Oh, and a simple soundport decoration which is a new direction - blimey they do push the sound up toward you.









Images are resized automatically to a maximum width of 800px




estebanana -> RE: About rosettes (Feb. 4 2014 0:45:21)

Like rosette #2 a lot a good job putting the tiles and rim around the sound port, that is not easy on a compound curve surface. I like your feeling for dark colors, I'm going to go into grey-black-blue-silver soon.

I lifted this off the internet, but Manuel de la Chica is inspiring. His tile designs are nutty like tiny crossed golf clubs and stuffed doll crazy eyes.



Images are resized automatically to a maximum width of 800px




Flamingrae -> RE: About rosettes (Feb. 4 2014 1:21:13)

Ok, cool Steve - thanks for the heads up on Manuel de la Chica. Yes, No2 is probably one of my favourites. Just wish I had used a half of herring bone in No1. The full herring is a bit too much, but you have to over push things sometimes to know when to stop. Thanks.




Anders Eliasson -> RE: About rosettes (Feb. 4 2014 7:52:41)

Nice and creative rosettes. I like the symetrical things in the middle.




britguy -> RE: About rosettes (Feb. 10 2014 14:06:13)

quote:


RE: About rosettes (in reply to Janne H) 

I think most luthiers have experimented with natural wood and other non traditional rosettes. But a lot of us go back to traditional mosaic because it just looks right on the guitar IMO. and very simple mosaics can be very beautiful. They're challenging but fun to make.


I have always found traditional rosette designs ( and also headstocks) to be really intriguing.

Apart from the Romanillos book; are there any other books/ stuff/ (whatever?), around, showing traditional rosettes and headstocks?




C. Vega -> RE: About rosettes (Feb. 10 2014 19:35:59)

H




britguy -> RE: About rosettes (Feb. 10 2014 20:03:54)

quote:

You might try the following books:

Sheldon Urlik - A Collection of Fine Spanish Guitars from Torres to the Present

Various authors - The Classical Guitar - A Complete History. Hardly a complete history but it has pictures. And yes people, it does have some info on flamenco guitars.

Luis F. Leal Pinar - Guitarreros de Andalucia and Guitarreros de Madrid

Amalia Ramirez - Jose Ramirez - 120 Aniversario. (Has pics of some guitars by other makers.)

Brian Whitehouse - The Ramirez Collection. (Again, more than just Ramirez guitars.)

All somewhat expensive books if you can find them except for the "complete history" which is available in paperback for $30 or less.
Your local library may be able to get the English language books through an interlibrary loan.


Great listing; thanks. Actually I tried to get the Urlik book through inter-library loans a while ago, but no luck!

But I might try a few of the others you listed?




britguy -> RE: About rosettes (Feb. 10 2014 21:57:17)

quote:

Your local library may be able to get the English language books through an interlibrary loan.


Just got a email back from our local steam-powered library.

Yes; they can get me the "Complete History" book on loan.

Great. Thanks!




estebanana -> RE: About rosettes (Oct. 26 2014 7:21:49)

Time to bump the rosette thread again:

Here is the top for my next Hauser model bracing.





Images are resized automatically to a maximum width of 800px




orsonw -> RE: About rosettes (Oct. 26 2014 11:26:13)

Thanks for posting Stephen, a small central mosiac bordered red in a black field always works for me. Would that be referred to as Esteso style?

I know nothing of guitar building, but admire and enjoy the luthiers work including the decoration; I would be interested in the luthiers thoughts on the following:


I read somewhere that much of guitar decoration has a functional origin.

E.g. The inlaid rosette serves the purpose of reinforcement around the soundhole opening.

The purfling allows for easier joint separation, if the guitar ever needed a major repair requiring deconstruction.




jshelton5040 -> RE: About rosettes (Oct. 26 2014 17:15:36)

quote:

ORIGINAL: orsonw

I read somewhere that much of guitar decoration has a functional origin.

E.g. The inlaid rosette serves the purpose of reinforcement around the soundhole opening.

The purfling allows for easier joint separation, if the guitar ever needed a major repair requiring deconstruction.

Actually the rosette weekens the area around the sound hole hence the need for the cross grain backing on the inside. The cross grain is the real sound hole reinforcement and stiffener.

It's kind of accepted that "purfling" on guitars refers to the inlay at the bottom of the binding which would never line up with the joint between the sides and back or top. I think the binding is there for two purposes...purely cosmetic and as a hardwood bumper to protect the edges of the softwood top. Those edges generally take the most abuse when a guitar is inadvertently banged into things.




estebanana -> RE: About rosettes (Oct. 27 2014 0:59:07)

quote:

Thanks for posting Stephen, a small central mosiac bordered red in a black field always works for me. Would that be referred to as Esteso style?

I know nothing of guitar building, but admire and enjoy the luthiers work including the decoration; I would be interested in the luthiers thoughts on the following:


I read somewhere that much of guitar decoration has a functional origin.

E.g. The inlaid rosette serves the purpose of reinforcement around the soundhole opening.

The purfling allows for easier joint separation, if the guitar ever needed a major repair requiring deconstruction.


I have thought about rosette many times; I think by the time you add the reinforcement behind the rosette and glue a bar above a below it you have fixed the weakness John mentioned. But you have also created a two and three layered laminate area that almost always stops cracks from extending beyond the soundhole into the rest of the top. Imagine an spruce top with an 86mm wide hole and how a rip could start at that hole the break the top on that tear line. The laminate of the rose and all the backing patches keep that ripping from happening. Sometimes you see guitars with small cracks near the bridge side of the soundhole, with no horizontal bar, rosette lamination or backing under the rosette, what sold stop that from ripping until it hits the bridge?

In steel string repair work the binding is often the entry point for removal of a back, which is common restoration procedure for a guitar valuable enough to warrant that technique if needed to access the inside. Most people try to keep the back and top on, but in some cases it has to come off to do the correct restoration. My friend Stewart Port does high end restoration work on old steel strings, he almost always has a job going where he's removed the binding to do some kind of work. He can also get the same binding back on the guitar later then the top of back goes on. He's kind of a wizard. For Prewar Martin-Gibson guitars and mandolins to retain value collectors a dealers demand this ind of preservation in the restoration work. Most classical and flamenco makers don't have the same demands on them, but there are a few who do know how to take a binding off when they have to. But binding is there to protect the corners and seal the end grain, and John put it, they serve as bumpers. But secondary purpose would be to give access to taking the back off.

There area few things in Spanish building that enable makers to do easier repair work, some makers for example don't glue the ribs into the heel slot. There was probably a time when replacing a shattered rib meant cutting the broken rib out taking off half the binding and installing a new rib. Maybe there are some old guitars out there with mismatched ribs? Who knows?

One think is for certain, guitars, unlike violins were not engineered to come apart easy for repair work on the insides.




Page: <<   <   1 2 [3] 4    >   >>

Valid CSS!




Forum Software powered by ASP Playground Advanced Edition 2.0.5
Copyright © 2000 - 2003 ASPPlayground.NET