About rosettes (Full Version)

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Janne H -> About rosettes (Mar. 24 2011 10:38:40)

Hi,

Maybe this is a strange question, but then again I haven´t seen it been discussed anywhere.

I was wondering, why do most (all?) classical/flamenco luthiers use the same type of rosettes? About the same size with little variations, most of them reminding of old carbet decorations. When I look at steel guitars, luthiers seem more open to different kinds of rosettes. Like solid wood ones, or different inlay materials and shapes and forms. Why is that?

Janne



Andy Culpepper -> RE: About rosettes (Mar. 24 2011 12:07:48)

I think most luthiers have experimented with natural wood and other non traditional rosettes. But a lot of us go back to traditional mosaic because it just looks right on the guitar IMO. and very simple mosaics can be very beautiful. They're challenging but fun to make.
Here's my rosette.. I don't think I've seen a carpet like this



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Stephen Eden -> RE: About rosettes (Mar. 24 2011 12:18:06)

There are many Spanish guitar makers that use solid wood rosettes and MOP roses aswell. The traditional tiled rosettes look the part on spanish guitars.

Why do most steal string builders use boring old concentric circles as there rosettes? I think they would look a bit silly with the tiled rosettes.



Harry -> RE: About rosettes (Mar. 24 2011 12:31:38)

In every aspect of a guitar's looks, I detest the vulgar. Too much ornamentation to me makes the guitar look like a woman with too much makeup.

One of my favorites is the simplicity of the Santos Hernandez style rosette. I love the system of interlocking circles.



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aarongreen -> RE: About rosettes (Mar. 24 2011 12:38:12)

The carpet analogy is a better one than may be readily apparent. Each thread in a carpet is analogous to each tiny piece of wood in a mosaic pattern. In terms of the patterns themselves, both could be called Byzantine in their origins, or middle eastern... whatever. Since they are repeating patterns you are kind of stuck with that affect.

I make three "stock" rosettes

This first one is my Alhambra rosette as the pattern came from a bas relief carving I saw in the Alhambra and is about as traditional as you can get IMO



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aarongreen -> RE: About rosettes (Mar. 24 2011 12:39:58)

Heres the second one, based on an old Enrique Garcia rosette (Barcelona builder at the turn of the 20th century). To me this rosette looks very Spanish but less Moorish.



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TANúñez -> RE: About rosettes (Mar. 24 2011 12:41:03)

quote:

Too much ornamentation to me makes the guitar look like a woman with too much makeup.


Torres' descendants claim that the shape of his guitar was based on the figure of a young woman in Seville so maybe the ornamentation is fitting.



aarongreen -> RE: About rosettes (Mar. 24 2011 12:42:27)

And then there's my tribute to my teacher Al Carruth, this rosette is my signature rosette and is made of side grain flame maple, ebony and pearwood. The pattern is pretty basic but the woods and technique make it somewhat flashy, which is the way I like it, let the wood do the talking,



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estebanana -> RE: About rosettes (Mar. 24 2011 14:45:22)

quote:

One of my favorites is the simplicity of the Santos Hernandez style rosette. I love the system of interlocking circles.


I know that guitar, I've played it and it is a fantastic guitar. I have a close up of that rosette that I took when it was in my shop. Lemme see if I can find it.



Argaith -> RE: About rosettes (Mar. 24 2011 14:58:29)

quote:

And then there's my tribute to my teacher Al Carruth, this rosette is my signature rosette and is made of side grain flame maple, ebony and pearwood.


This rosette is very beautiful, well done master.



estebanana -> RE: About rosettes (Mar. 24 2011 15:22:04)

Here's that same Santos rosette-



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estebanana -> RE: About rosettes (Mar. 24 2011 15:24:32)

there's that same tap plate





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estebanana -> [Deleted] (Mar. 24 2011 15:26:58)

Post has been moved to the Recycle Bin at Mar. 24 2011 15:27:57



Harry -> RE: About rosettes (Mar. 24 2011 15:42:51)

That is definitely the same rosette!

All of the ones on this page look great to me...

I suppose it is the one spot where builders can go nuts, but like I said, I prefer something understated and classy!



Richard Jernigan -> RE: About rosettes (Mar. 24 2011 16:19:19)

Here's a 1900 Manuel Ramirez "showing the hand of Santos Hernandez" that sold for $17,500 USD at Chrstie's in October, 2008. Apparently 'bling' hadn't gone completely out of style a century ago.

RNJ



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jshelton5040 -> RE: About rosettes (Mar. 24 2011 16:26:53)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Richard Jernigan

Here's a 1900 Manuel Ramirez "showing the hand of Santos Hernandez" that sold for $17,500 USD at Chrstie's in October, 2008. Apparently 'bling' hadn't gone completely out of style a century ago.

RNJ

Now that is ugly!



El Kiko -> RE: About rosettes (Mar. 24 2011 16:35:14)

OOOOOhhhhh Richard ....not for me , price or style ....unless perhaps I was wearing a shirt that was to match the rosette pattern...............[;)]

I did see I interesting one somewhere to match the arches of the mezquita de Cordoba.......if you commision a guitar the rosette could be personalized ...?



stephen hill -> RE: About rosettes (Mar. 24 2011 16:43:34)

this is my standard, rather carpety??!



estebanana -> RE: About rosettes (Mar. 24 2011 17:04:09)

carpety is good.



aarongreen -> RE: About rosettes (Mar. 24 2011 17:11:14)

Here's a good old traditional rosette on a good old traditional guitar

Any guesses?


Aaron



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edguerin -> RE: About rosettes (Mar. 24 2011 17:35:59)

How about Anders'
resette?



estebanana -> RE: About rosettes (Mar. 24 2011 18:46:11)

quote:

Here's a good old traditional rosette on a good old traditional guitar

looks like a Barbero



aarongreen -> RE: About rosettes (Mar. 24 2011 19:13:04)

You are correct.

It's the 51 to be exact.


I love his later rosettes best though, the red, black and white one that looks like something Harley Davidson would have come up with, if they built guitars that is.



Harry -> RE: About rosettes (Mar. 24 2011 19:38:23)

I love Anders' Rosettes because they look very very organic.

Very very woody!



Richard Jernigan -> RE: About rosettes (Mar. 25 2011 2:20:55)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rico_Kiko
I did see I interesting one somewhere to match the arches of the mezquita de Cordoba.....


That's pretty much Jose Romanillos' trademark, continued by his son Liam, since Jose is essentially retired from making guitars. My '73 Romanillos (#407) has the same pattern inlaid on both the rosette and the bridge. It evolved a bit throughout Jose's carreer, but remained clearly recognizable. I've seen at least one ripoff of the 'Mezquita' rosette design on the web, but such seem to be fairly rare.

RNJ



Anders Eliasson -> RE: About rosettes (Mar. 25 2011 7:43:54)

Here you have one of my favorites. Olivewood and bloodwood on Cedar.



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Janne H -> RE: About rosettes (Mar. 25 2011 10:34:18)

Does anyone here have (or have seen) any steel guitar like rosettes on classical/flamenco guitars, like solid wood ones? Pics or links? Just to see how it fits...



Ruphus -> RE: About rosettes (Mar. 25 2011 11:29:56)

quote:

ORIGINAL: aarongreen

And then there's my tribute to my teacher Al Carruth, this rosette is my signature rosette and is made of side grain flame maple, ebony and pearwood.


Wonderful!


quote:

ORIGINAL: Anders Eliasson

Here you have one of my favorites. Olivewood and bloodwood on Cedar.


It looks beautiful!

Never heard of bloodwood.
That reddish / metallic sheen besides looks as if the wood was containing copper. Very interessting.

What I´d like to see ( and think to have seen somwhere ) would be the classical greek ornamentation.

Ruphus



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Ruphus -> RE: About rosettes (Mar. 25 2011 11:34:21)

Another kind I´d love to see, notwithstanding conventions, would be traditional Nort-American native motives, like e.g. on my old belt.
( Used to have a special book on such with beuatiful examples, only that books don´t return when lent out.)

Ruphus



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aarongreen -> RE: About rosettes (Mar. 25 2011 12:52:22)

I've seen the Greek Key motif in a few rosettes, as well as an ornamental inlay in Torres' guitars.


Bloodwood is a great red, unlike other woods it also stays red, doesn't turn brown with time. The red in my Alhambra rosette is bloodwood veneers. It's a pain to work with, likes to split and splinter (in veneer form anyways) and if you get a splinter, it burns like hell. Not as bad as snakewood, but it will send you running for the tweezers.



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