Ordering a Francisco Navarro Guitar - is this a good deal? (Full Version)

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apak -> Ordering a Francisco Navarro Guitar - is this a good deal? (Jul. 13 2010 6:05:35)

I did a search for Francisco Navarro guitars on this forum and all the hits that came up had nothing but praise to say about these guitars and their value.

So I tried to contact via on email on a website that seemed to present the builder, and I got a replied from a gentleman named Ron Hudson, who mentioned that he has three of the Concert models in stock, and is willing to offer one of them to me for $1200 (discounted from the listed $1700 price), including shipping within the states.

Just wanted to know your guys thoughts on reputability of the distributor and also what you think of this specific model at this price point. I would have preferred to go try the guitar in person, but there are not many shops around where I live with a great selection.

I have an amazing classical guitar that I am learning the basics of flamenco on. I am thinking of travelling to spain for a few months to take as many lessons as I can, and I wouldn't want to haul my rather pricey classical for this trip.

So I do have the alternative of saving that $1200, and buying a flamenco guitar in Spain... so in your opinion should I take the deal for the Francisco Navarro guitar or should I wait until I'm Spain and I have a chance to check out as many guitars as I possibly can.



at_leo_87 -> RE: Ordering a Francisco Navarro Guitar - is this a good deal? (Jul. 13 2010 15:00:25)

hey apak,
what's the website? 1200 is a deal! but i wonder why he's discounting it? im also considering getting a navarro. a few of the members here have one and have posted sound clips, including kozz who has the concert model.

i really doubt you can find a non-factory made guitar in spain for $1,200. more like 2000 euros. [:(]



kozz -> RE: Ordering a Francisco Navarro Guitar - is this a good deal? (Jul. 13 2010 16:15:33)

quote:

what's the website? 1200 is a deal! but i wonder why he's discounting it? im also considering getting a navarro. a few of the members here have one and have posted sound clips, including kozz who has the concert model.


Thats a great deal Apak!
Its a great sounding guitar. Last week I had the opportunity to have somebody else playing it and listen myselves....only thing I can say [:)]



ngiorgio -> RE: Ordering a Francisco Navarro Guitar - is this a good deal? (Jul. 13 2010 17:22:56)

I own a Francisco Navarro Concert model blanca. It is an excellent guitar. I am very pleased with it. The workmanship and materials are better with FN's Grand Concert model, but in my experience, having also owned a GC version, the Concert model has better playability and seems to be a much better value.

I did not purchase from Ron Hudson but he has an excellent reputation. $1200. is a good price for a Concert model.



apak -> RE: Ordering a Francisco Navarro Guitar - is this a good deal? (Jul. 13 2010 17:57:18)

at_leo_87:

The website is www.francisconavarro.com.

I believe he is the official distributor of FN guitar in the US. I have no idea why he is discounting it. Perhaps of our current economical situation?


---

$1200 is still a little above my budget, so I have to think about this seriously.

And I'm just a little worried about ordering without being there in person to test out the guitars.



Andy Culpepper -> RE: Ordering a Francisco Navarro Guitar - is this a good deal? (Jul. 13 2010 20:54:04)

Yeah a student of mine got a Concert model from the same guy. At the risk of hurting his business (or maybe helping it), I'll mention that my student talked him down to $1000. All he had to do was tell the guy he was just going to get a Yammie instead[:D]

The guitar was great, but his student models can be almost as good too.



at_leo_87 -> RE: Ordering a Francisco Navarro Guitar - is this a good deal? (Jul. 13 2010 23:24:55)

wow, a 1000!

apak, there's also the student model which is cheaper. i've seen it on ebay lately for 700 new. there's probably nothing better in that price range.



RTC -> RE: Ordering a Francisco Navarro Guitar - is this a good deal? (Jul. 13 2010 23:45:18)

Apak:
Ron's reputation is very good. I spoke to him a while back an he was always up front. I would not hesitate to do business with him.

If you do a deal report back to the forum about your experience, so others can benefit from your comments.

Remember to ask a lot of questions and see about a return policy in case it turns out not to be what you expected.

Most of the people on this forum with FN's guitars seem to be very happy with them.

Look for a post from Tom Blackshear where I belived that he paid Francisco a very high compliment about this talents as a builder.

Good Luck and keep us posted.



Ramon Amira -> RE: Ordering a Francisco Navarro Guitar - is this a good deal? (Jul. 14 2010 2:05:59)

This web site has been advertising FN Student Model for $650 for a long time on EBAY, and I think a few people have bought them and said that it was all legit. There's a negra on there now, but they also have blancas for the same price. Including a gig bag.

http://instruments.shop.ebay.com/?_from=R40&_trksid=p3907.m570.l1313&_nkw=francisco+navarro+guitars&_sacat=619



at_leo_87 -> RE: Ordering a Francisco Navarro Guitar - is this a good deal? (Jul. 14 2010 2:22:05)

i wonder why so cheap. the temptation is building.....[&:]



Ramon Amira -> RE: Ordering a Francisco Navarro Guitar - is this a good deal? (Jul. 14 2010 2:51:04)

I think some members on Delcamp classical bought these, and were very happy. I don't get it. Some places are selling these for $900. If there's a catch, I don't know what it is. By the way, I said "Gig Bag," but the ad actually says "Featherlite Case included." A Featherlite case is something better than a gig bag. He is making it up a little bit with $50 shipping, but still . . . . .



apak -> RE: Ordering a Francisco Navarro Guitar - is this a good deal? (Jul. 14 2010 3:18:36)

I am pretty sure I will go ahead and order the Concert model.

I also asked about the return policy, and he said there is a 3-day grace period for a full refund, as well as a lifetime warranty on the guitar itself. Shipping is included in the price but within the states only. So I have to order to a Washington address, and drive down from Vancouver to pick it up.

But before placing the order, I asked him to measure the string height/action for me at the 12th fret as well as right at the bridge.

If the order goes through, I will write back here with my experience.

As for the pricing, I have a feeling the distributor is making a profit on these no matter what. The guitars are made by FN in Mexico, where I am sure the labor and materials are relatively cheaper than in the states or in Spain. He is importing them from Mexico to Texas, and it all seems like a one man operation. Last time I checked, Texas is not really the flamenco central of the USA, so he probably has a few of his flamenco guitars sitting in the shop without much demand, so he is offering them at a discount to unload them and make new orders of other models. But all that is just my theory.



at_leo_87 -> RE: Ordering a Francisco Navarro Guitar - is this a good deal? (Jul. 14 2010 6:04:39)

a guitar being shipping in a "featherlight" case sounds scary to me.

is it possible to contact and order from francisco directly? i wonder what his prices are if you order direct.



kozz -> RE: Ordering a Francisco Navarro Guitar - is this a good deal? (Jul. 14 2010 6:13:06)

quote:

As for the pricing, I have a feeling the distributor is making a profit on these no matter what.

Thats how distributors make their money, hence the name...so your theory is right.



apak -> RE: Ordering a Francisco Navarro Guitar - is this a good deal? (Jul. 14 2010 6:35:59)

By the way, he has offered me the guitar, inclusive of case and shipping all for $1050.

at_leo:

I sent him off another question asking about the shipping method. I have the same concern as you.



n85ae -> RE: Ordering a Francisco Navarro Guitar - is this a good deal? (Jul. 14 2010 14:36:56)

What's the concern? It's still going to be packed in a box, with insulation around
it. I would assume it's insured as well.

Regards,
Jeff



Ramon Amira -> [Deleted] (Jul. 14 2010 18:58:13)

Post has been moved to the Recycle Bin at Aug. 28 2012 13:05:42



GuitarVlog -> RE: Ordering a Francisco Navarro Guitar - is this a good deal? (Jul. 14 2010 19:37:20)

Ron Hudson is legit. He was selling FN's stuff before a lot of other folks caught on.



Arash -> RE: Ordering a Francisco Navarro Guitar - is this a good deal? (Jul. 14 2010 20:14:22)

I don't think that he is exclusive official distributor or something , who only sells to dealers.

I assume he was the first dealer from Navarro in US, then some other dealers followed later.
But i think those other dealers buy directly from Navarro in Mexico too.
I think Tom from La Falsetta also sells Navarros.

Maybe this guy gets better price, because he buys many of them (much more than other dealers).



Ramon Amira -> RE: Ordering a Francisco Navarro Guitar - is this a good deal? (Jul. 14 2010 21:27:15)

I'm sure Ron Hudson is legit, I certainly didn't say he wasn't - someone suggested that he was the official USA distributor for Francisco Navarro Guitars, and I said IF he is, then he should not be selling to the general public. Of course if he is not the official USA distributor, but merely a dealer himself, then he has a perfect right to sell the guitars at whatever price he chooses, and the public is the winner. Possibly FN has no USA distributor, if as Guitar Vlog and Arash suggest, dealers in the U.S. are buying directly from FN, though most manufacturers sell through distributors. The websites that I could find that sell FN Concert Model are listing it for $1700, though they may sell it for less, but any which way $1000 is a great price, and Ron has to be selling it at a very low markup at that price.

I would guess that Arash is right – he is not the USA distributor, but rather he is a dealer, and he probably placed a decent order and got a discounted price, so he can sell them for less. It's good business, but of course any dealer runs the risk – especially in this economy – of getting stuck with inventory that he can't move fast enough. But at those prices they'll move plenty fast.

Ramon



kovachian -> RE: Ordering a Francisco Navarro Guitar - is this a good deal? (Jul. 14 2010 21:29:03)

Who the hell cares, I'm just glad to have scored a student blanca from him at a killer price. [sm=tongue.gif]



at_leo_87 -> RE: Ordering a Francisco Navarro Guitar - is this a good deal? (Jul. 14 2010 21:40:57)

quote:


Who the hell cares, I'm just glad to have scored a student blanca from him at a killer price.


how killer of a price are we talking about here?



Alonte -> RE: Ordering a Francisco Navarro Guitar - is this a good deal? (Jul. 14 2010 23:49:04)

Yeah Ron is legit. And if you call him directly, you will get Killer prices. :)



apak -> RE: Ordering a Francisco Navarro Guitar - is this a good deal? (Jul. 15 2010 0:43:25)

I just a had a good chat with Ron.

I told him that I live in Canada, and my credit card company charges $30 for currency conversion. He discounted the guitar that much more, for a total of $1020.

For that price, I am getting the Francisco Navarro Flamenco Concert model, with the "sturdy" case, not the featherlite.

I found out some other interesting details for the others interested her may want to know

- He is selling his current inventory at wholesale prices

- The Concert model is built and signed by Francisco Navarro himself. The student models are made by his sons and other helpers, so they are not signed by him.

- The back of the neck of the concert model is re-enforced with a strip of chocobolo wood. I am not sure how common this is, but it made me feel better about the guitar's stability against temperature changes and humidity changes.

- The guitar inside it's case is shipped inside a specially made box with cushioning to protect it.

- Insurance for the shipping is included in the price above.

- I have a 3-day grace period to get a full refund if I'm not happy with the guitar

I also mentioned this forum to him, and how his name and reputation has come up. He hadn't heard about it before, but did mention that word of mouth is his first line of marketing.

I'll update again when the guitar arrives. Should be in a week.



Ramon Amira -> RE: Ordering a Francisco Navarro Guitar - is this a good deal? (Jul. 15 2010 2:23:53)

If you're getting a signed Francisco Navarro with shipping and a hard shell case for $1020, you've gotten one of the best buys I've heard of in a long time. Good luck with it. How about a preliminary report on the guitar after you've played it for a while.[;)]



kovachian -> RE: Ordering a Francisco Navarro Guitar - is this a good deal? (Jul. 15 2010 2:40:13)

quote:

how killer of a price are we talking about here?
$650 with a regular hardshell case.



at_leo_87 -> RE: Ordering a Francisco Navarro Guitar - is this a good deal? (Jul. 15 2010 2:49:34)

congratulations on getting a good price, apak! i wonder if i can squeeze the same deal out of him.

quote:

$650 with a regular hardshell case.


wow, that's like third degree murder good.

does anybody know if the student models are french polished?



ngiorgio -> RE: Ordering a Francisco Navarro Guitar - is this a good deal? (Jul. 15 2010 4:42:05)

Interesting thread. I suppose that much like the luthiers from Spain, there is a lot of misconceptions when it comes to who makes what and distributors and actual costs etc. on guitars coming from Mexico.

I have had some experience with this as a high end guitar dealer, years ago, in NYC. Even with the so called "Distributors" in the US, you could still buy direct from most of the makers in Spain. Re-sell them at whatever price you were comfortable with. Was and still is a lot of "smoke and mirrors" when it comes to Spanish makers.

As for Francisco Navarro, his Estudio model is currently being offered at G.S.I. http://www.guitarsalon.com/product.php?productid=3492 In the past couple of years, there have been a few people selling FN guitars on Ebay. I purchased two from one of those sellers back in 2008. He gave me two really good deals at the time as well as a lot of info on FN. whether or not the info was accurate is another thing entirely.

Both guitars came with warrantees but any warrantee claims were to be made through Ron Hudson. This guy was getting the guitars from Ron. I was told that FN had a rather high production rate. Ten to twelve per month as I remember. Was also told that FN worked with his son and brother and maybe another helper. As I have mentioned previously here, I acquired a Grand Concert and a Concert blanca. The prices were under $1200. for the GC and under $1000. on the Concert. Another Concert flamenca sold new, from the same seller, on Ebay after I purchased mine for $850. As has been mentioned in this thread, an Estudio can be had currently for $650. Occasionally, RH will list a FN on Ebay. The last one I remember a few months back was a "Reyes" model and it went around $1500. or so. If you do your homework and search them out there can be some excellent buys out there on FN flamencos, both new and used. I sold a couple of my cejillas to a guy who bought a FN concert Flamenca, Spruce/Cypress, for $600. used. He sent me photos of it and it was mint. As far as I can tell there is consistency in the work coming from the FN shop. Like any other maker, there will be some better than others, but I don't think there will be any bad ones with the FN label.

For those interested in purchasing an instruments by FN, do your homework and find the model that suits you. There are always going to be some good deals out there. You just have to seek them out.



apak -> RE: Ordering a Francisco Navarro Guitar - is this a good deal? (Jul. 15 2010 6:13:50)

at_leo

I'm certain you could even get it for $1000.

Just drop him an email (it's on his site). He checks regularly. Tell him you heard he gave a deal that deal for the Concert model to a guy living in Vancouver just today.

I'll be very surprised if he refused to offer you the same deal.



ngiorgio -> RE: Ordering a Francisco Navarro Guitar - is this a good deal? (Jul. 15 2010 14:14:14)

This just popped up on Ebay.

http://cgi.ebay.com/FRANCISCO-NAVARRO-FLAMENCO-NEGRA-NYLON-STRING-CLASSICAL-/220637732778?cmd=ViewItem&pt=Guitar&hash=item335f089faa

Talk about a good price ......................[;)]



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