RE: The single biggest problem with the flamenco community (Full Version)

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Ron.M -> RE: The single biggest problem with the flamenco community (Apr. 10 2010 12:05:48)

quote:

(Rant over now...just had to put up with a lot of BS this afternoon)


[:D][:D]

Oh God...Pim...

You're bringing it all back now.[:D]

I don't think I actually ever met anyone in Spain (in music circles) who wasn't "Un Artista"!

While sometimes I was embarrassedly nodding and thinking... " yeah...Piss Artista"[:D]

cheers,

Ron




Pimientito -> RE: The single biggest problem with the flamenco community (Apr. 10 2010 12:29:05)

Yeah...I don't often get annoyed but sometimes its frustrating. Before I came to Spain I had the idea that all flamenco musicians here had perfect compas and flawless technique. Whilst that is true sometimes (and every town has some amazing artists) and some of the stuff that gets posted on youtube is really amazing...you have to realise there is an awful lot of junk out there too.

I thinks that when you keep on encountering puffed up chested drunken masogenists who change guitar strings less often than they put credit on their mobile phone....manage to make Sevillanas fit rumba and cant pitch a note to save their life or find the first beat of a phrase......and then tell you that you don't know anything because you are a stupid foreigner...
...well 10 years of that tends to wear you down sometimes[:(]




Ron.M -> RE: The single biggest problem with the flamenco community (Apr. 10 2010 12:48:39)

Yeah Pim, but think of all the GOOD things that have happened...

Stuff like that, you just laugh and let it run off like water off a duck's ass. [:D]


cheers,

Ron




Kate -> RE: The single biggest problem with the flamenco community (Apr. 10 2010 13:20:55)

I remember being chatted up by a drunk in a bar who offered to teach me how to dance a BulerĂ­a saying he was from jerez. He then went on to dance some weird made up sevillanos type thing and I made my excuses and moved away. Afterwards the owner of the bar must have told the guy I knew my flamenco and the guy was positively red with embarrassment and could not stop apologising. Apparently that was his way of pulling foreign girls !




Arash -> RE: The single biggest problem with the flamenco community (Apr. 12 2010 3:11:09)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Doitsujin

quote:

Everybody is trying to sound like someone else.


Well,.. as amateur and aficionado...My main interest lays in playing the music I love so much in the way I love it so much. And that is composed by others in the style of others. Why inventing the wheel again? I mean as amateur? I see no need in that.
When one is professional...one should look for his own style. yep. But not as aficionado as me i.e.. [;)]


exactly.

if there should be any problem in the flamenco community ( i don't see any real problem ) is that some people want to be virtuoso composers with unique style and sound, without even having all the flamenco techniques and palos and compas down perfectly.

most of us have to learn the techniques and fundaments perfectly first, then play the pieces from the maestros we like, then finally after years of hard work and copying, try to compose something new and innovative (if we want and if playing others pieces wouldn't be enough for us).

but honestly, there is so much to learn and discover first that most of us would probably be busy their whole life learning and enjoying them first. i mean if i would be able to play 30% like Diego del Morao or Paco, then i am the happiest man alive. that would be enough for me.

of course we can do things like "composition challenges" etc. but thats not what most people here do regurarly. they practice things from others, learn to improve technique, etc.

the style is gained and formed during the years. everyone creates his own style, whether he wants or not.
and this is always influenced by others (again, whether you want or not. its done automatically).
even here in the foro, all afficionados (beginners, intermediates, pros), all of them have their own unique style with distinctive characteristics which seperates them from others. everyone has something special.

anyway, i don't understand what this topic is really about [:D]




Ailsa -> RE: The single biggest problem with the flamenco community (Apr. 12 2010 4:30:46)

quote:

anyway, i don't understand what this topic is really about


That a relief I was beginning to think I was the only one. [:D] Surely everyone is inspired by a sound they admire and want to sound like them?




Florian -> RE: The single biggest problem with the flamenco community (Apr. 12 2010 6:23:12)

in replie to the topic post

thats not really the problem...if u look at it another way it might acttualy be the very source of what we now call flamenco...

personally i dont wanna sound like a peticullar race or country necesarely...just different parts of different musicians i like, be it spanish or foreign
......musiceans here inspire me, musiceans there ..to be honest i havent even given much thought to who i wanna sound like...i just try to play music i can relate to and music that inspires me ..thats about it

in the same alegrias i got david cerreduela mixed with paco serrano, mixed with some simple alzapua parts from some simple no title instructional book and mixed with an escobilla i got from those free table edit websites




Ricardo -> RE: The single biggest problem with the flamenco community (Apr. 14 2010 6:39:18)

The problem with flamenco community at large is insecurity coupled with strong opinions and tastes, and the resultant methods of dealing with insecurity and all the drama created. That problem gets magnified the smaller the local community is, it seems. Many people use the term ego, but I feel that "problem" is yet another result of the above issues. If one has an ego (actually everyone does that is not a saint, and not many saints are flamencos I think...), it is not a problem if one is both secure in his or her ability and not so strong opinionated of what others are doing.

Regarding imitation. Well that is the natural result of inspiration, although there are many that can create something totally different then what inspires them. Steve Vai said it is great if a young artist does his "own thing", but if he or she wants to copy every detail of some one else and be a "clone", that is actually OK too. We are each unique individuals and can't literally be anybody else other then ourselves. So sometimes, as Vai said, we have to "lose ourselves" in the image of someone else that inspires us, in order to find out more about ourselves.

Mclaughlin also said he did not believe in freedom without discipline. I think that is appropriate for flamenco too. One needs a solid base of the style from which to build. The discipline comes from studying the work of the maestros, be it technique or specific music, accompanying, or singing or dancing of course. After that comes the freedom to be creative yet the base from which you have built for yourself, in hopes it is good and authentic and does justice to the genre.

Ricardo




Stu -> RE: The single biggest problem with the flamenco community (Apr. 14 2010 6:46:17)

quote:

insecurity coupled with strong opinions and tastes


Isn't this the problem with the human race? not just flamencos? particularly insecurity!




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