Making a living out of Music (Full Version)

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Reinhardt -> Making a living out of Music (Mar. 1 2010 23:24:48)

Hi guys its been awhile since I was last on here!

Its been a rough road till now and I have finaly decided
to quit my dayjob and go fulltime into music.
Im 22 and dont have any family to support or what so ever.
I play the style of Rodrigo y Gabriela, Jesse Cook, John Clarke
and few cover bands with alot of flamenco flavour. I play with a
Djembe(bongo drummer) and he also plays the Australian Didgeridoo(only one song).
We are a instrumental band Here in South Africa at the East coast
and been playing gigs for about 5 months and had really good responses
We get about 3 gigs average a week and make about $80 equal to about SA R600
Ive only been playing for about 4 years and made really good progress
till now. Quitting my dayjob means that I will be getting about 8 hours practice
in everyday that will help alot!!!

Ive read earlier posts on this forum about 7 years ago where some people also
discussed this topic "making a living out of music" and would like to know
where you guys are at now? Some feedback and general advice would be much
appreciated and always enjoy reading peoples stories on how they made it in the
music industry!

Thanks in advance
Reinhardt



Spencer -> RE: Making a living out of Music (Mar. 1 2010 23:52:48)

Live the Dream!!!

Goodonya Reinhardt. Where are you based? Durban? Where are your gigs?

You say you are making $80. I hope that is per person per gig at the very least. It is a hard way to make a living!!

I do have a family - with children at school - and a mortgage. So living off a muso's earnings is not on the cards for me. But I do hope one day to play gigs at restaurants or functions. The thought of earning a penny for playing is an appealing one. But I can't see myself living off it. Maybe I can supplement my pension in retirement - hopefully only 15 years away!!

Wishing you every success.



Reinhardt -> RE: Making a living out of Music (Mar. 2 2010 0:14:18)

unfortunately thats per gig for the both of us but im still new and always get free food and drinks afterwards and alot of feedback from people asking for cd's ect. . .

I live in Western Cape George, near Mosselbaai playing mostly at Wildernis. Where you from?

I dont have much expenses though, only petrol, rent and food. All this practice will defintly help me improve and maybe go big one day and give lessons ect. . .
South Africa is not very familiar with the art of flamenco and all the foreign music that its very original for the people down here.



buleria74 -> RE: Making a living out of Music (Mar. 2 2010 2:26:59)

well it's a start, try to increase to $50 per person second quarter 2010 and
so on. if you could start teaching some flamenco (I assume you know the
basics) your income will increase slightly. also, if possible keep a part-time
job just in case, when you see your income is stable then leave it.

if you wanna live on music then forget about having kids etc.
your gf or future wife should support you aswell otherwise
it's not possible.

good luck.



Ricardo -> RE: Making a living out of Music (Mar. 2 2010 6:04:53)

quote:

f you wanna live on music then forget about having kids etc.
your gf or future wife should support you aswell otherwise
it's not possible.


[8|] wrong.[&:]



buleria74 -> RE: Making a living out of Music (Mar. 2 2010 6:47:54)

quote:

wrong.


that's your opinion, we all have different experiences, I am sure

most musicians ( specially fields like flamenco ) know how difficult it

is making a living of music these days. having to support a family makes

it even harder. it is possible if his gf or wife has a well paying full time job.

many of my friends are professional players in Europe and they all agree

with me on this. you might have a different experience in DC.



Karen -> RE: Making a living out of Music (Mar. 2 2010 13:36:48)

quote:

if you wanna live on music then forget about having kids etc.
your gf or future wife should support you aswell otherwise
it's not possible.


I have to agree with Ricardo on this one...

I have been around musicians all my life, and I know many people with families who make a living solely from music. Some are married with children, some are single parents, but they manage to support themselves, making a living through music- teaching, performing, composing, recording etc. There are many avenues to explore, you just have to find what works for you.

Having said that, yes, it is a very good idea to try to keep a part time job until you are sure of your income.

Besides, they say anything is possible. [:D][:D]



Guest -> RE: Making a living out of Music (Mar. 2 2010 14:12:56)

Family and making a living out of music can co exist. In fact it has heightened my experience by exploring other avenues such as teaching and composing for various media. Sure there's less sleep, shorter practice times but it does motivate you in a different way than if all your time was your own. I Think one has to embrace all that life presents....



Pgh_flamenco -> RE: Making a living out of Music (Mar. 2 2010 15:36:36)

A career in music can make having health and dental insurance difficult. Preparing for retirement can also be an issue. It's good to try this while you're young and able change course more easily if it doesn't work out.



ToddK -> RE: Making a living out of Music (Mar. 2 2010 18:36:57)

Agree with Ricardo...



Reinhardt -> RE: Making a living out of Music (Mar. 2 2010 20:44:07)

Thanks for the inspiring replies guys :)
Family is the last concern i have at the moment, im still young and not planning to rush into marriage. Music is my life and I really want to see how far I can take it.
Also cant manage with late night gigs during the week because that just makes my next day at my job very bad. Thats why I gave my 30 day notice at my dayjob and going fultime into music. How many of you have practiced about 8 hours a day 5 days a week? I think that will help me improve quiet abit.



JasonMcGuire -> RE: Making a living out of Music (Mar. 2 2010 22:31:46)

quote:

I play the style of Rodrigo y Gabriela, Jesse Cook, John Clarke


Oh no..... here we go again.[8D]



Reinhardt -> RE: Making a living out of Music (Mar. 2 2010 23:34:04)

quote:

Oh no..... here we go again.


Whats up with that Jason?



JasonMcGuire -> RE: Making a living out of Music (Mar. 3 2010 0:50:16)

Just kidding Reinhardt. Nothing wrong with it at all.



JasonMcGuire -> RE: Making a living out of Music (Mar. 3 2010 0:54:41)

I have a kid and a wife.... we have to work our butts off.... but it can be done. I have also done a bunch of stuff other than music on the side to make ends meet....



Reinhardt -> RE: Making a living out of Music (Mar. 3 2010 1:32:37)

Yes I understand its gonna be hard doing gigs, selling cd's and giving guitar lessons but I think if you do it right at the right location with the right market you can actually make it.



KMMI77 -> RE: Making a living out of Music (Mar. 3 2010 1:33:56)

My three attempts at doing music full time all ended with no money and depression. [:D]



yohan -> RE: Making a living out of Music (Mar. 3 2010 2:07:05)

How about a conservatory?
If you have a degree you can at least teach properly, and get some musical contacts to start a group or whatever



michel -> RE: Making a living out of Music (Mar. 3 2010 2:22:17)

it takes me too much time to learn a new flamenco piece, that's why i became grafic designer

as compensation i surf the foro the whole day at work [:D][:D][:D],
good compromise regarding economical crisis.



buleria74 -> RE: Making a living out of Music (Mar. 3 2010 3:23:31)

quote:

My three attempts at doing music full time all ended with no money


it's tough out there.

quote:

I have a kid and a wife.... we have to work our butts off


agreed.

it really depens on what people mean by making a living from music.

you could be a music teacher at high school or university, fine, you have

a stable salary. however, making good money as a performer, specially

flamenco guitarist is another kettle of fish!!! .



at_leo_87 -> RE: Making a living out of Music (Mar. 3 2010 7:24:45)

quote:

How many of you have practiced about 8 hours a day 5 days a week? I think that will help me improve quiet abit.


i did that for awhile. even with 8 hours of scheduled, focused practice, i still felt like it wasn't enough. but the thing was that it really killed my hands. my left wrist got tired, my m and i knuckles were bruised, my a and i nail were receding, my fingertips were sore. and it's a lot mentally if you're under stress.



Reinhardt -> RE: Making a living out of Music (Mar. 3 2010 10:06:05)

I've played 4-5 hour gigs and felt good after that so I think 8 hours a day(not all at once) 3 hours morning, 3 hours afternoon and 2 hours at night should be effecient.



buleria74 -> RE: Making a living out of Music (Mar. 3 2010 10:45:44)

quote:

I've played 4-5 hour gigs and felt good after that so I think 8 hours a day(not all at once) 3 hours morning, 3 hours afternoon and 2 hours at night should be effecient.


oh man, that's good!!! 4-5 hours gig, it's really tough.



Ron.M -> RE: Making a living out of Music (Mar. 3 2010 11:31:38)

quote:

I've played 4-5 hour gigs and felt good after


I can't think of anyone I've ever known who played 4-5 hour gigs in anything ... (pop, rock, jazz, flamenco etc, etc)

Basically 2 X 45 min slots was the norm for a full show.

(Except "Cream" where Ginger Baker could do a 2 hr drum solo..[:-])

Is this a new thing these days?

Cool!

(I think you guys should push yourselves to a 10 hour gig and beat the competition.) [:D]

cheers,

Ron



Doitsujin -> RE: Making a living out of Music (Mar. 3 2010 12:57:16)

2 friends of mine did such a gig in past...several hours. They played small sets with breaks. And a lot of improvisation... I think it was a good practicing gig coz nobody listens 4 hours.



Rain -> RE: Making a living out of Music (Mar. 3 2010 13:58:08)

I'm interested to know how you divide your 8 hr practice schedule?

To those here that make a living playing music, or doing what they love, whatever that may be I have great admiration for all of you and wish you a successful future.



Reinhardt -> RE: Making a living out of Music (Mar. 3 2010 20:22:29)

Thanks alot for all your replies guys! Much appreciated feedback!
In response to my 4-5 hour gigs, yes i had small breaks in between and did alot of improvisation and had some tight songs.
In response to my 8 hour practice session each day, well:
3 Hours in the morning
3 Hours Afternoon between lessons
2 Hours late night if i have no gigs.
If I can work 9 hours a day in a office I think I can do something I like for 8 hours splitted up in sections each day :)
Thanks!
Reinhardt



Ricardo -> RE: Making a living out of Music (Mar. 3 2010 21:01:41)

I have found myself in situations of starting a juerga at 12 am going on till 6am or later, non stop playing and singing and drinking....usually heavy strumming. Only breaks being to have a drink smoke or bathroom. Sometimes bulerias, a single "song" can go for hours. Same for tangos or rumba, even Fandangos. As many times as this has occurred for me, I will say the only thing I have noticed about my hands would be the glue coming off my nails, and perhaps a little chipping of the nail tips. Callouses perhaps a little sore, but not much else wrong with it for me....and others that like to play long and hard too. The one who plays the most or sings the most, seems to get to drink the least.[:D]

Anyway, I never practice that long or with that much intensity at home by myself. When I was a teen I played for many hours, but a different technique and style of music. 8 hrs of practicing Jessie Cooke and Rodrigo y Gabriela have me scratching my head though. [:)]

I have to wonder about the idea of having a money making job vs the supposed "starving artist" route. I mean, anyone can fail or have bad luck in any venture. Music industry is not meant for making big money, unless you are going the pop star commercial machine route. Business, Law, Medicine, Computer tech, etc, those are more the persuites of people worried about having money. The rewards of being a musician for me out weigh what I might get doing something as a "fall back" for what others perceive as "security". Of course there will be compromises, but so there will be with anyone and their life choices. Give me a list of jobs BETTER recommended to anyone that was curious in this thread about making a living as a musician and being discouraged, and I will say there is a list of jobs I would suck at, compared to what I do now.

Why are people so quick to give up in music or art, because they MIGHT fail, vs say giving up on business, Law, or Medicine, where if they fail they could really screw up others lives worse then their own? Just because of this supposed "security" of their future? [&:] People need to be true to themselves and do what they KNOW they can do best, and not what they think they should be doing because someone ELSE told them it was better.

IMO

Ricardo



Spencer -> RE: Making a living out of Music (Mar. 3 2010 21:55:16)

@Reinhardt. Howzit! I know your area well - been going there for 50 years. My bro lives in George, and my folks in Keurboomstrand, not far from you! The very best part of SA. I moved to the land of Oz 10 years ago, but come back to visit family. Next time I will have to come hear you play.

I reckon you should busk at places like the Waterfront in Knysna over Christmas. My 13 year old son went busking at the Woodford Folk Festival here in Oz and made a killing!!!!

Maybe busking is the wrong approach. Just practice long and hard in a public place. And leave your guitar case open in front of you.

@Ricardo: I am a shrink and often think about what makes people choose what they do. For my part, I have shrunk enough heads, and often wish I could throw it in and be a muso. The only problem with that is that being shrink comes naturally, like guitar does for some, but not me. I work hard at flamenco, but I am NOT a natural. I know that for a fact.

My conclusion is that we ultimately are called to do what we are best at... make use of the talents and gifts we were born with.. and make best use of these for the benefit of all.

Best regards



KMMI77 -> RE: Making a living out of Music (Mar. 3 2010 21:56:55)

quote:

Why are people so quick to give up in music or art, because they MIGHT fail, vs say giving up on business, Law, or Medicine, where if they fail they could really screw up others lives worse then their own? Just because of this supposed "security" of their future? People need to be true to themselves and do what they KNOW they can do best, and not what they think they should be doing because someone ELSE told them it was better.

IMO


I think things have changed a lot over the last 10 years. I know a duo here in australia. Great guitar players. Played some flamenco, rhumbas and john mc,PDL,al di meola stlye. And did it well. In the 90's they went around australia busking, doing gigs, selling CD's etc... People at the time were amazed by them. They would play two songs, stop, and people would line up to buy CD's. They made enough money to buy a house in just a few years.

I am not sure what it was, Perhaps it was peoples first exposure to flamenco style guitar music .The popularity of guitarists like Ottmar was huge at the time. This has all changed. Guitarists of the same and even higher level today seem to have limited success and struggle to sell CD's.

The cost of living has also risen to the extreme here in brisbane. between 1997 and 2002 all properties in brisbane doubled in value. I was in spain at the time playing guitar and missed the boat.[:D][:D] They have doubled again now. Unfortunately the amount people seem willing to pay for gigs has not.

I could survive doing my regular gigs but it would just cover rent and food. I have one gig that i do 3 nights per week and have been there for 6 years now. I also do others when they come up. It would be a struggle to keep on top of all the other bills, electricity, internet,maintaining a car, insurance etc.. $300 000 would get you a one bedroom unit 10 kms from the city. In the 90's the same unit would have been $90 000. Funny thing is that i was making more from gigs in the 90's than i am today.

I probably play guitar better than anything else i do. I don't feel like i have given up on it by only playing part time. In fact, by working during the day it takes the pressure of the bills and allows me to play the music that i enjoy. I get to choose when where and what i play. That's the good part. Getting up for work in the morning isn't.[:D][:D]



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