RE: tremolo question (Full Version)

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Ron.M -> RE: tremolo question (Nov. 15 2004 14:58:25)

Jon,
Some guitarists will play tremelo in the opening falsetas to various styles, before the cantaor begins, but they don't seem to use it in falsetas inbetween verses.
I think the cantaor would probably raise an eyebrow at the guitarist for trying to steal the attention LOL!
Good to hear the dance classes are paying off.

Ron



Jon Boyes -> RE: tremolo question (Nov. 15 2004 15:19:18)

Thanks Ron, that's what I thought. So its reasonable therefore to think of tremolo as primarily a solo guitar technique?.

Jon



Escribano -> RE: tremolo question (Nov. 15 2004 15:21:44)

quote:

I thought someone here from Spain (Sean?) said recently that tremolo was basically irrelevant in the context of accompanying cante.


I would go with that. Fancy falsetas can be irrelevant in cante in that it may detract from the singer - who will generally give his/her guitarist the nod to show off when they want to take drink or a puff [;)] However, I hear tremelo in the Solea llamadas to "call in" the cante. I cannot comment on dance as I hear more flamenco than I see. I'll rectify that in Granada.

I also think the crux of my point is that all manner of frills such as tremelo are important to solo guitar for listenability but it does not carry the melody of flamenco, as this is in the cante. i.e. cante is flamenco, with or without guitar but not the other way around.

I suppose it boils down to whether one considers a solo guitar performance to be flamenco. At the moment, I do not. But this is clearly evolving with the superb post-PDL guitarists.

p.s. not sure I like the way I have explained that but all the great solo guitarists have made their bones accompanying cante and baille - that's their job.

I would suggest that they didn't then decide to learn some new techniques like tremelo or picado in order to go solo they just practise and use them more.

Perhaps this is why some guitarists are better known for their solo work e.g. Pepe Habichuela, they are better at the free styles and these ornamental techniques?



Jamey -> RE: Right hand fingerings (Nov. 15 2004 15:48:59)

Unless you're Gerardo Nuñez. Listen to a few of the tracks on Calima. There are passages there where it is the tremolo that is the focus of the melody and not the bass notes, in fact they become lost behind the tremolo. It's not entirely one or the other, it is dependent upon the piece being played (and the emphasis the player wants to bring out).

In more traditional palos, then ones that most can recognize, the thumb takes precedence but I think you'll find the reverse has become common in the more modern styles and pieces.



Ron.M -> RE: Right hand fingerings (Nov. 15 2004 16:09:40)

quote:

Unless you're Gerardo Nuñez


LOL! Jamey,
Yeah, that's about it.
Apart from compás, you can do what the heck you like.
There is a sort of accepted norm which changes from year to year.
If what you do is liked, then it's copied and becomes the new norm.
That's what makes this a difficult art form to study.
Things are hard to pin down. Rules are strict and hazy at the same time. [:D]

Ron



Miguel de Maria -> RE: Right hand fingerings (Nov. 15 2004 16:57:50)

Hmmm. Well, if you hear a lot of dance accomp. and that's what you hear in the States, then you may never hear tremolo in your life. On the other hand, I know some Montoya falsetas with tremolo--supposedly he is the first flamenco to import this technique from classical. I was under the impression that he was pretty well based in cante accomp., but to tell you the truth I can't recall ever hearing tremolo in any accompaniment setting. Maybe in something with Paco and Camaron?



Guest -> RE: tremolo question (Nov. 15 2004 21:02:37)

Hola

I play tremolo falsetas in Malagueñas and Granainas. During the cante accompaniment never, in any palo.

I have also heard tremolo falsetas in solea and alegrias, but really just as a reverse arpeggio substitute.

Sadly,I can raise no interest in solo guitar.

Sean



musicalgrant -> RE: tremolo question (Nov. 15 2004 21:55:01)

Hi

I always thought that tremolo was a way for the guitarist to make up for the short sustain of the notes, i.e the guitar stringwhen plucked sounds loud and then fades away[:(] so the poor guitarist thought how can I make it sustain better? And lo and behold tremolo was born LOL

In Paco De Lucias solea (for solo guitar I might add) his tremolo resembles cante in the way it moves, ie instead of staying on one not for the tremolo i,a,m,i etc....the notes change and hence trying to recreate, I emphasize trying, the cante.

Even in classical guitar we are always trying to imitate the best instrument that was born, and that is the voice, that is where all music sprung from, and instruments came later...as in flamenco guitar solos came later, and hence are trying to imitate the singer, the dancer and whatever else



Escribano -> RE: tremolo question (Nov. 15 2004 22:19:57)

quote:

Sadly,I can raise no interest in solo guitar.


Yep, I guess I am joining you, though it's great background music. Trouble is, I am always waiting for Camerón or El Potito to come on in.

Does that make me a snob?[:D]



Miguel de Maria -> RE: tremolo question (Nov. 15 2004 22:33:57)

Yes, you guys are snobs, there's no doubt about it! But it's pretty normal in the flamenco community to "put guitarists in their places."

But I guess it's a normal progression.... play bass in a punk band, become a microsoft engineer, start playing flamenco guitar.... get a house in Granada and get sick of flamenco guitar.... start listening to cante...

Don't take any of this seriously, by the way :)



Escribano -> RE: tremolo question (Nov. 15 2004 22:48:00)

quote:

get sick of flamenco guitar.... start listening to cante...


Hey, I'm getting old but I'll not sicken of the guitar and I never take you seriously, Michael[&:]

quote:

play bass in a punk band


Maybe that's why I think the melody is in the thumb?



Jamey -> RE: tremolo question (Nov. 16 2004 0:24:06)

Incidently, how many other people here played in punk bands years ago and somehow ended up in flamenco? (was this asked before?)
How many others here played finger style bass previously?



Jon Boyes -> RE: tremolo question (Nov. 16 2004 8:01:33)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jamey
Incidently, how many other people here played in punk bands years ago and somehow ended up in flamenco? (was this asked before?)
How many others here played finger style bass previously?


Rock, goth and almost punk bands: electric guitar, bass and vocals depending on the band.

Nearly turned pro as a bassist - I was asked to audition for a UK band called New Model Army who were at the time (early nineties) high in the charts with a couple of singles, and selling out Brixton academy (which is a fair size venue in London).

Cheers

Jon



Jon Boyes -> RE: tremolo question (Nov. 16 2004 8:03:39)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Escribano
Trouble is, I am always waiting for Camerón or El Potito to come on in.

Does that make me a snob?[:D]


Not in the case of those two, consider yourself excused [;)]

jon



Escribano -> RE: tremolo question (Nov. 16 2004 8:16:32)

quote:

New Model Army


They were big, what happened to the audition? I can't say we were punk, more pre-grunge, post-industrial heavies.



Jon Boyes -> RE: tremolo question (Nov. 16 2004 8:26:56)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Escribano
They were big, what happened to the audition?


They shortlisted about five of us from demos that were sent in after they announced in the press that they were looking for a new bass player. The audition went quite well, we played through several of their numbers, but ultimately another guy got the job [:o].

Big, big turning point in my life that would have been, but sadly it wasn't to be.

Jon



Miguel de Maria -> RE: tremolo question (Nov. 16 2004 15:39:13)

Wow, Simon and Jon two semi-famous guys! I am impressed.

Simon, if my wife wanted to learn how to play enough bass to do some rumbas and stuff like that, is there a particular bass which might make it easier since she's a fairly small woman?

I started off playing guitar in about '90, doing Metallica and that kind of stuff. (Actually we weren't good enough to play Metallica so we wrote our own, "metallica-like" songs."



Escribano -> RE: tremolo question (Nov. 16 2004 16:21:11)

quote:

is there a particular bass which might make it easier since she's a fairly small woman


Don't know I am afraid. I would try Google. Tracy Lamb of Girls School and Suzi Quatro used a Fender Bass I think, one of the largest. Not sure about about Tina Weymouth of Talking Heads. Have a look at the Washburn.



Jamey -> RE: tremolo question (Nov. 16 2004 18:10:20)

I still have an Ibanez Road Star II. The action is low and the bass itself is smaller (smaller more streamlined body). You're wife might want to go with something like that. They are meant to be jazz basses I think and are a rather easy to play for a bass (i.e. weight, low action, neck width etc.).



Jamey -> RE: tremolo question (Nov. 16 2004 18:14:32)

Initially I was in "hardcore" bands, that straight ahead fast noise (heavy Minor Threat influences). Later I was involved in college-alt-rock-whatever type of bands. Sort of a cross between Sonic Youth and The Pixies. The Pixies played their first show together again after their hiatus here in Winnipeg this past summer. Needless to say it was sold out.



Escribano -> RE: tremolo question (Nov. 16 2004 19:23:58)

quote:

Sort of a cross between Sonic Youth

Supported them a couple of times in London - wild night.



Jon Boyes -> RE: tremolo question (Nov. 17 2004 12:40:41)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Miguel de Maria
Simon, if my wife wanted to learn how to play enough bass to do some rumbas and stuff like that, is there a particular bass which might make it easier since she's a fairly small woman?



Yes, a 3/4 scale one. The neck is much shorter.

Jon



Miguel de Maria -> RE: tremolo question (Nov. 17 2004 15:30:19)

Does it sound the same? This feels like a stupid question...



duende -> RE: tremolo question (Nov. 19 2004 10:02:59)

Listen to Pdl Playing Peteneras with Camarón or Fosforito. He allways does a tremolo as an intro.

Henrik




...never heard it in between verses though



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