Strings (Full Version)

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HolyEvil -> Strings (Mar. 22 2009 19:36:07)

hey there guys, just checking whether there actually IS a difference between classical strings n flamenco strings, with brands that are selling flamenco string like La Belle, are they actually more or less the same thing, just difference in marketing?

cheers



HemeolaMan -> RE: Strings (Mar. 22 2009 21:00:40)

Basically flamenco strings are supposed to sound rhaspyer and brighter. Rarely is that the case

the g always sucks. the blacks and reds are tubby (ricardo will disagree, rightly so) the basses are usually anemic because .... basically they are just any other bass lol.

The strings I really like are the Aquila Alabastro. They are more earthy dry rattling and smokey sounding because they are made of a different material. Much like the D'Addario composite G except not as plastic sounding. instead of being carbon or titanium type strings they sound more like gut.

http://www.stringsbymail.com/serselect.asp?tCat=1&tMan=43&dMan=Aquila

I recently met the guy that runs this site. actually, two brothers run it, i met one brother. It was awesome to sit and talk with him, because he basically knows what industry standard is... lol he sells strings to basically everyone! He sold me on the alabastro's.He also likes the hannabach titaniums (maybe luthier) with a new line of strigs basses.

I'd email him and ask, but its more fun if you find out what you like by yourself.

Try the aquila Alabastros. theyre only 11 bucks. they sound great. they stay in tune and the intonation stays better too.



Ailsa -> RE: Strings (Mar. 22 2009 23:35:29)

quote:

Aquila Alabastro


Hey Sobrino! You using high or medium tension?

I'm using Savarez Alliance high tension atm, but the previous set were medium tension and am thinking of going back to them. Before that I had a set of Luthiers on and they just didn't suit my guitar (or me) at all. When I put the Savarez ones on it was such a relief - just felt good underneath my fingers.

quote:

its more fun if you find out what you like by yourself.


Yeah. But much more expensive too [:(][:(]

To answer HolyEvil's question - I've been told there isn't really any difference and that strings sold specifically as flamenco are just marketing.



Anders Eliasson -> RE: Strings (Mar. 23 2009 0:29:22)

Holyevil:

I dont care about what strings are called and in general I dont use the brands which make special flamenco strings. (Hannabach, LaBella etc) Simply because I dont like them. Instead I use strings I like and they happen to be non specific, just strings. (Luthier, Daddario)

As a builder, I always string up my guitars with a standard string because thats what most people use and thus it works the best as a reference.

Besides that, strings are something personal. I fx, hate savarez Corum/Alianza. I like the sound, but the feel is awfull. Especially the high E string on the high tension set is really nasty. On the other hand, the black Labella 820B has the nicest feel of all trebles IMHO and on some guitars they sound fantastic. But its just me. (The 820B is not a specific flamenco string. It was part of a classical set with gold colored basses)



Doitsujin -> RE: Strings (Mar. 23 2009 1:57:31)

I use daddario extra hard tension. I think they are classical strings. They are ok.. I remember luthier strings had a longer life in my case. But since I have my new blanca,.. old dirty strings sound good, too. So, I would pay more attention to the guitar which you use than the string-label.
I only remember the worst strings I´ve ever used. Its Augustine blue. Sometimes they already broke while putting them on the guitar..

The string-tension is important for me. My strings are very close to the soundboard, so I use very hard strings to have a clean tone. The good thing is, I get the shattering rasguado-sound very easyly coz they are so close to the soundboard. Low tension strings a useless for me. No good control,.. they move too much and sound softly. I dont like that.
A negative point to the hard tension is, that my nails get gaps when I play too much picado.. And sometimes my index-nail breaks coz of backstrockes i.e. in buleria. It happens sometimes during playing for dance..
Thats the negative point of playing for dance.. I could play hours and hours solo without damaging my nails (instead of picado) but when I play 2 hours or more for dance... I always get damage. And the weird thing is, I already broke the index nail two times and I had protection on top... That really sucks.
So,..hard tension strings are a challenge itself...



XXX -> RE: Strings (Mar. 23 2009 2:32:22)

I am a bit surprised that no guitarist with interest in technical things has elaborated on this. The string sound is such a complex and interesting field. There are so many factors... For example the LaBella 820s (black), which are Ricardos choice. I used them the first time and found the trebles really dull. The second time i thought they were good. I had the impression that the surface structure makes the nail sound more dull. Plus the normal tension strings feel like hard tension strings of other brands to me. But the material itself is bright and plastic-like, which gave it the brilliance. All in all i liked them and found them flamenco sounding. But i had to get used to them some weeks.

I dont know if its only the tension, but i think they really feel "hard", i used them long time because they seemed harder than a "very high tension" treble string (apart from carbon strings, which are smaller in diameter and thus REALLY have to be harder to get the pitch). So i think its a list of several factors that make the sound.. tension, kind of material, diameter, surface structure...
i think it is personal in regards to which strings are good for you, but in terms of sound i think its quite objective to describe a sound as dull or brilliant.



kovachian -> RE: Strings (Mar. 23 2009 5:08:02)

Has anyone tried Luthier's new white trebles?



GuitarVlog -> RE: Strings (Mar. 23 2009 6:18:23)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ailsa
I'm using Savarez Alliance high tension atm, but the previous set were medium tension and am thinking of going back to them.


Savarez has a set of mixed-tension strings: medium trebles and hard basses. You might want to try those. I like them.



El Saare -> RE: Strings (Mar. 23 2009 14:26:56)

I use the Labellas and I don't know if I'm really satisfy with. I think that they give the guitar louder sound but not what I want.

I'm still exploring what I really need. My teacher hates the Labellas he sucks when he play my guitar , he advised my to accept the Savares..

I will buy some when I'll go shopping.



gj Michelob -> RE: Strings (Mar. 23 2009 14:50:42)

May be I have my tensions crossed and wrong. It always sacres me when I read from good musicians that their tension of choice is "hard" or "extra hard". I am more of a "normal" (and I only refer to strings tension) kinda guy...

It was Bratt at stingsbymail who warned me against the finger-injury one could evelop with hard tension. He also felt strongly that it is all about "D'Addario Composite, Normal Tension" it took me a while but I eventally listened, and am really pleased.

I find D'Addario Normal Tension Composite (along with the coffee-colored G) to have such unparalleled tone and to effortlessly make the inner voice of both my Conde and Rubio, sing beautifully.

However, taste scarcely gets any more subjective than with our choice of strings!!



at_leo_87 -> RE: Strings (Mar. 23 2009 15:27:08)

quote:

I use daddario extra hard tension.


quote:

It always sacres me when I read from good musicians that their tension of choice is "hard" or "extra hard"


i, too, use extra hard tension. but that shouldn't scare you because i'm not a "good musician." [:D]

i think it really depends on your playing style and guitar. i would imagine playing with normal tension/very high action would cause more harm than extra hard tension/low action.



gj Michelob -> RE: Strings (Mar. 23 2009 16:34:11)

quote:

i would imagine playing with normal tension/very high action would cause more harm than extra hard tension/low action.


You are complicating matters, At_Leo, but i wholeheartedly agree. Few things can be as damaging as an ill-fitted set up.

Yet my guitars have the lowest action known to man, along with flattened frets, and such agreeable set-up is then most comfortably crowned by normal tension strings .... and i still can't play!!!



avimuno -> RE: Strings (Mar. 23 2009 17:06:33)

Deniz,
I find that the LaBella black trebles work amazingly well with Condes and similar guitars. I used to have a Conde and my main gigging guitar at the moment is a Hermanos Sanchis Lopez 1F, which is very close to Condes, and I just love the sound and feel of the black trebles on them. Ricardo has them on his Condes and his Sanchis too... I see what he likes in them. They really work well with these guitars.
They do feel a bit hard tension wise, but they cut through really well.
I've tried them on my Raya Pardo and hated them on that guitar.
Really goes to show that not all strings work with all guitars. Experimenting is the way to go.



at_leo_87 -> RE: Strings (Mar. 23 2009 18:20:34)

quote:

You are complicating matters, At_Leo, but i wholeheartedly agree.

i tend to do that a lot.
i guess what im trying to say is that it doesn't necessarily mean more strength/straining/tension is needed to play high tension strings at least not so much more that it could be detrimental. any injury that might happen would be a result of bad technique.
higher action scares me more than higher tension. this is just my opinion based on my experience, of course.



Anders Eliasson -> RE: Strings (Mar. 24 2009 0:19:41)

Just some things. IMHO, treble strings (and specially La Bella 820B) Gets better after some time. They get streched more and have more ring. Most treble strings last forever. I´m testing longitivity of a Daddario composite G string (the brown one) Its on a guitar I play every day. Its more than 2 years old and its as good as new.

As I said, I choose my strings mostly because of tension but also ring. My favorite 1st and second treble strings at this moment are Luthier30. (nice feel, and bright) My 3rd string is ALWAYS the Daddario composite med. tension
My favorite basses, new ones, medium or med/hard tension.

I get enough pulsation by moving closer to the bridge and if I play higher tension, I get problems in my right hand or wrist. Besides, The pro and semi pro players I know, dont play higher tension strings. medium, med/high and sometimes hard tension is what most players use.



HemeolaMan -> RE: Strings (Mar. 24 2009 7:12:58)

Hola Tia

I'm using regular tension. My guitar has a very taught feel so I never use high tension. the thing is damned loud anyway lol



HemeolaMan -> RE: Strings (Mar. 24 2009 21:56:38)

i should mentionthat i hate the basses.

I use hannabach. the blue ones for bass



Ricardo -> RE: Strings (Mar. 25 2009 9:30:28)

I accidentally ordered a batch of labella 820's with Red trebles. I have to say they have grown on me. I am not so sure I could tell the difference between these and the black trebs in a blind fold test. They feel about the same and sound very similar too.

I still like Luthier strings too, and have no problems mixing and matching those two brands. I never liked the weird G string of Daddario...or rather that string is fine, but sticks out like a sore thumb against the other trebles. Why not just have all 3 trebs made of that stuff???

Anyway, My sanchis is very low action and the labellas are sort of dull and too buzzy at the same time. But luthiers are amazing sounding on it. So yeah, I concur, different guitars like different strings. Same goes for tensions. Harder tensions won't bother your technique on a super soft guitar...and will enhance the sound. On a stiffer guitar it will make the guitar louder, but perhaps less bright and more bassy, and make the guitar feel like driving a truck.

Ricardo



krichards -> RE: Strings (Mar. 25 2009 9:52:53)

quote:

My 3rd string is ALWAYS the Daddario composite med. tension


Are buying these as singles? Please tell me where you get them



kovachian -> RE: Strings (Mar. 25 2009 12:41:01)

quote:

Are buying these as singles? Please tell me where you get them
String By Mail



mrMagenta -> RE: Strings (Mar. 25 2009 14:33:51)

quote:

that string is fine, but sticks out like a sore thumb against the other trebles. Why not just have all 3 trebs made of that stuff???


A while back someone mentioned using fluorocarbon fishing-line for composite trebles as discussed here: delcamp fishing line follow-up thread

Anyone here tried it? Sounds a bit nutty, especially considering that Savares actually uses the same material in their alliance strings, but that just makes me more curious.. could fishing line actually compete with the products from proper string manufacturers - with all their consistency checking mechanisms, experience and years of research?

Currently I'm trying my first set of D'Addario Composite normals with the brown string. They feel alright to me, but I'm not sure they are a good fit for my guitar..
my subjective observation is that the basses and the g-string sound brighter in timbre and feel snappier than normal nylons. It's like they're revealing the weakest properties of my guitar.



GuitarVlog -> RE: Strings (Mar. 25 2009 15:04:17)

quote:

ORIGINAL: mrMagenta
A while back someone mentioned using fluorocarbon fishing-line for composite trebles as discussed here: delcamp fishing line follow-up thread


I remember that he later said his experiment with fishing-line was disappointing.



at_leo_87 -> RE: Strings (Mar. 25 2009 15:14:22)

if fishing lines work, i'll be happy to try it. probably will save me a couple bucks.
he's a professional performing musician, isn't he? if it worked for him...



pacowannab -> RE: Strings (Mar. 25 2009 20:00:26)

quote:

I still like Luthier strings too


Ricardo, have you tried the Luthier black nylon trebles? If so, what did you think?



Anders Eliasson -> RE: Strings (Mar. 26 2009 1:24:06)

Changing the color on the trebles dont realy do much.
Luthier made white trebles some 6 - 8 years ago and they werent any different from the clear ones.
LaBella 820 (red) and 820B is IMO the same string. If I was blind I wouldnt be able to feel or hear the difference.

I agree, that brown Daddario is ugly, but I dont care.



Ricardo -> RE: Strings (Mar. 26 2009 7:42:57)

quote:

ORIGINAL: pacowannab

quote:

I still like Luthier strings too


Ricardo, have you tried the Luthier black nylon trebles? If so, what did you think?


never came across those, I will give em a try.



HolyEvil -> RE: Strings (Mar. 26 2009 16:17:37)

Hi there ricardo. Just checking what do u mean by a hard or soft guitar? And how can I tell if I have a hard or soft guitar?

Cheers



newstringjunkie -> RE: Strings (Mar. 29 2009 8:16:11)

On the topic of strings, I have some questions:

First, what is up with the G ?? There's something about that string that makes it like the little bully in string-land. Annoying! Is there a somewhat understandable logical explanation for this? I'd really like to know.


And another question is about extra hard tension, do you need to get a pro to take a look at your guitar to check whether the instrument can handle extra hard tension strings or ...? I read somewhere that some guitars just aren't built to take these strings, and before I start experimenting I would like to know if it's safe before I mess up my beloved and only guitar.


Finally: putting new strings on: It always goes along with some profanities because I never get it right the first time. The trebles are slithering out of their desired position leaving me with a big dent in my patience supply.

So if anyone could tell me the Golden Rules of String-tying for dummies that would be greatly appreciated.



Arash -> RE: Strings (Mar. 29 2009 9:07:40)

quote:

ORIGINAL: newstringjunkie


Finally: putting new strings on: It always goes along with some profanities because I never get it right the first time. The trebles are slithering out of their desired position leaving me with a big dent in my patience supply.

So if anyone could tell me the Golden Rules of String-tying for dummies that would be greatly appreciated.


I use this "method" and i have no problems:



Except: i go round 3 times (at the bridge) for the clear E-string (whereas in the video he only goes twice)

It is fast and it is good!

Oh, and with Bass strings you have a more strong end and a weaker end. Use the strong end for the bridge.



Ricardo -> RE: Strings (Mar. 29 2009 14:10:34)

quote:

ORIGINAL: newstringjunkie

On the topic of strings, I have some questions:

First, what is up with the G ?? There's something about that string that makes it like the little bully in string-land. Annoying! Is there a somewhat understandable logical explanation for this? I'd really like to know.


And another question is about extra hard tension, do you need to get a pro to take a look at your guitar to check whether the instrument can handle extra hard tension strings or ...? I read somewhere that some guitars just aren't built to take these strings, and before I start experimenting I would like to know if it's safe before I mess up my beloved and only guitar.


Finally: putting new strings on: It always goes along with some profanities because I never get it right the first time. The trebles are slithering out of their desired position leaving me with a big dent in my patience supply.

So if anyone could tell me the Golden Rules of String-tying for dummies that would be greatly appreciated.


G string "problem". It is simply, by necessity, the THICKEST string on the guitar. Hence problems with fine tuning and tone. But personally, that is a characteristic of the guitar's sound and I alway personally accepted it. I don't like "special" G strings. (I mean for the guitar...[:D])

Tension- for nylon string guitars, the hardest tension string will break before it damages your guitar... assuming the guitar is of some quality...like the bridge is properly glued on. So just experiment....harder tension will sound louder, but not always better, and will not be as "easy" to playl.

Changing strings... make sure to tie a knot they won't slip so easy. I tune the guitar a half step sharp and let it settle down for a few hours before fine tuning and playing.

Ricardo



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