RE: Lebrijano/Cepero Bulerias

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srshea

Posts: 833
Joined: Oct. 29 2006
From: Olympia, WA in the Great Pacific Northwest

RE: Lebrijano/Cepero Bulerias (in reply to Anders Eliasson)

This actually brings up a semi-interesting issue.

I think I’m pretty good about being disciplined in not getting ahead of my self by trying to play stuff that’s too far beyond my level, and I really just spend the majority of my time sticking to basic, foundational stuff, happily working away at the fundamentals, slowly progressing towards (hopefully) some kind of competence.

But it can be fun, and interesting/informative, to occasionally fool around with something that’s beyond your level, like that Cepero falseta is for me. Even if you have no hope of making a serious attempt at playing something properly, it can be a good exercise to jump in and get your hands dirty, trying to figure out how the thing works by wrestling with it, making a total mess of things. Getting lost in a piece of music and trying to hack your way out of the forest can sometimes be a better way of understanding it than just standing back and listening, or waiting for your own knowledge to catch up to it. I think there might be a danger in picking up some bad habits and cementing certain unproductive approaches if you were to spend TOO much time doing this, sloppily working away at something and getting it wrong over and over. But I think a bit of focused fiddling around can be a good thing.

I like to do this here and there so long as it doesn't distract me from the basic work I need to be doing.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 15 2009 10:44:05

Estevan

Posts: 1938
Joined: Dec. 20 2006
From: Torontolucía

RE: Lebrijano/Cepero Bulerias (in reply to srshea)

Thanks srshea, this is great!

How about "Ochi chornya" at 3:10, is that fusion or what?

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Me da igual. La música es música.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 15 2009 12:10:11

srshea

Posts: 833
Joined: Oct. 29 2006
From: Olympia, WA in the Great Pacific Northwest

RE: Lebrijano/Cepero Bulerias (in reply to Estevan)

“Icecream cona!”

Huh, you know, Pohren’s Lives and Legends mentions that Cepero has made a bundle as a successful songwriter, writing some 600-800 songs in all kinds of genres, pop, rock, etc. I wonder if he has some encyclopedic catalog of pop/jazz/rock melodies and hooks floating around in his head…….

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 15 2009 17:41:27

Estevan

Posts: 1938
Joined: Dec. 20 2006
From: Torontolucía

RE: Lebrijano/Cepero Bulerias (in reply to srshea)

quote:

Pohren’s Lives and Legends mentions that Cepero has made a bundle as a successful songwriter, writing some 600-800 songs in all kinds of genres, pop, rock, etc.

Wow, that's interesting! (That could also account for some of the dinner music on "Abolengo"

)

quote:

I wonder if he has some encyclopedic catalog of pop/jazz/rock melodies and hooks floating around in his head…….

I bet he does! The real flamencos that I know are pretty all-encompassing in their musical tastes - everything is valid, everything can be grist for the mill, and can become flamenco. Or if they don't use it, at least they respect it.

Cepero's quote in this performance reminds me of the classic jazz guys, who would often throw in all kinds of "non-jazz" quotations into their solos. It made me think, for example, of Stéphane Grappelli quoting the opening of Bach's Double Concerto in the middle of Sweet Georgia Brown. It just happens very naturally - with the flow.

Here it's very brief but it's got that gitano feeling of being a surprising cheeky joke.

_____________________________

Me da igual. La música es música.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 15 2009 21:23:14

srshea

Posts: 833
Joined: Oct. 29 2006
From: Olympia, WA in the Great Pacific Northwest

RE: Lebrijano/Cepero Bulerias (in reply to Estevan)

Thanks for catching and pointing that out, Steve. I definitely wouldn’t have noticed otherwise.

That Cepero as songwriter/producer mention in Lives and Legends is the most detailed account I’ve heard about that. I don’t know to what extent it’s true or possibly over stated or a legend that got printed, but either way it’s the sort of thing that makes me like him even more than I already do. I like the idea of one of the top flamenco accompanists of the last forty years leading a double life, kicked back in an over-stuffed studio chair, producing cheezy Spanish disco records during the day, and then heading off to the juerga to rip through some monster bulerias in the after-hours…..

A couple months ago I was listening to a Bob Dylan mix a friend had made me, which included an alternate/demo/whatever, bluesy version of one of his more recent songs, Mississippi. I had the guitar in my lap, and was idly strumming along for a bit when it occurred to me that the opening melody of Vivaldi’s Spring fit oddly yet perfectly as a reworking of the song’s guitar hook. I kept hitting repeat on the CD player ‘cuase it was so fun to play along to.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 16 2009 14:29:26

Anders Eliasson

Posts: 5780
Joined: Oct. 18 2006

RE: Lebrijano/Cepero Bulerias (in reply to srshea)

Back to your question on the top of this page.

Yes, I think its good to "jump" and and try things which are difficult. IMO the best is to analyze what you need to work tecnically wise and then find things to work that emphasis on this.

The Cepero falseta is 99% easy and simple. But the chord strum at the 12th beat in the middle of picado is very difficult to do well, making this falseta advanced. When you to this add that its so pure and transparent. You find out that you need a realy high level to play it well, because you cannot hide anywhere. This is a good falseta to work thumb strums with picado but it can also end up being a frustrating experience.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 17 2009 0:03:02

srshea

Posts: 833
Joined: Oct. 29 2006
From: Olympia, WA in the Great Pacific Northwest

RE: Lebrijano/Cepero Bulerias (in reply to Anders Eliasson)

Anders,

Yup. I'd agree that getting that back and forth A chord/picado transition to work smoothly is the "catch" in this.

That A chord downstroke: I'm inclined to hear it as a thumb stroke, but I can't really tell if it's thumb or index....

Well, I need to get back to my basics, so I'm gonna set this one aside for a while and hopefully come back to it some months down the line...

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 17 2009 10:09:53

Estevan

Posts: 1938
Joined: Dec. 20 2006
From: Torontolucía

RE: Lebrijano/Cepero Bulerias (in reply to srshea)

quote:

But it can be fun, and interesting/informative, to occasionally fool around with something that’s beyond your level, like that Cepero falseta is for me. Even if you have no hope of making a serious attempt at playing something properly, it can be a good exercise to jump in and get your hands dirty, trying to figure out how the thing works by wrestling with it, making a total mess of things

Agreed - I think it's really important to do this from time to time, it gives you some perspective on your progress, and it gives you incentive to keep working as well as clues as to what to work on.

quote:

Getting lost in a piece of music and trying to hack your way out of the forest can sometimes be a better way of understanding it than just standing back and listening, or waiting for your own knowledge to catch up to it.

And your knowledge won't catch up unless you give it an exploratory push now and then.

quote:

I think there might be a danger in picking up some bad habits and cementing certain unproductive approaches if you were to spend TOO much time doing this, sloppily working away at something and getting it wrong over and over. But I think a bit of focused fiddling around can be a good thing.

Yes, too much time in the deep end will be counterproductive, but you shouldn't be afraid to go there sometimes. It's a question of awareness.

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Me da igual. La música es música.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 17 2009 11:21:25

Anders Eliasson

Posts: 5780
Joined: Oct. 18 2006

RE: Lebrijano/Cepero Bulerias (in reply to srshea)

quote:

That A chord downstroke: I'm inclined to hear it as a thumb stroke, but I can't really tell if it's thumb or index....

I´m 99% sure its a thumb downstroke. maybe with a golpe as well.

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Blog: http://news-from-the-workshop.blogspot.com/

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 18 2009 0:16:19

Estevan

Posts: 1938
Joined: Dec. 20 2006
From: Torontolucía

RE: Lebrijano/Cepero Bulerias (in reply to srshea)

quote:

Well, I need to get back to my basics, so I'm gonna set this one aside for a while and hopefully come back to it some months down the line...

You could work your way back to it via this nice Cepero falseta which contains some similar material but is simpler. Scroll down to the bottom of the page:

http://www.flamencoweb.fr/spip/spip.php?article156

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Me da igual. La música es música.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 19 2009 15:17:20