HELP... !!! hammering sound echoes from my strings

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gj Michelob

Posts: 1531
Joined: Nov. 7 2008
From: New York City/San Francisco

HELP... !!! hammering sound echoes f...

HELP... all of a sudden, when doing scales on all my guitars, an off-tune sound accompanies each note, as if i were just hammering them with my left-hand fingers, but it is not the response of the note you'd expect on that fret, but something from hell.... horrible !!!

I never noticed it before, does any one knows what it may be.

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gj Michelob

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 6 2008 19:32:07

Anders Eliasson

Posts: 5780
Joined: Oct. 18 2006

RE: HELP... !!! hammering sound echo... (in reply to gj Michelob)

Does it happen when playing without a capo

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 6 2008 23:48:46

gj Michelob

Posts: 1531
Joined: Nov. 7 2008
From: New York City/San Francisco

RE: HELP... !!! hammering sound echo... (in reply to Anders Eliasson)

Good morning Anders (it’s 5:30 am here in California) and thank you so much for addressing my concern.

I tried my guitars as soon as I read your question: yes, the odd sound is there with or without capo.

Whether I do or do not pick the strings with my right hand fingers, if I simply run a scale (say, open 1st A G [2nd] F E D [3d] C B A) in addition to the normal sound of the strings, there is a sound similar to a “harmonic” , unrelated to the notes I play, that responds to each fret I touch. Also such odd sound is more pronounced on the trebles and almost inexistent on the basses.

I am wondering if it has to do with temperature and weather, and therefore expansion or shrinking of wood (?). It is colder and drier than usual, here in SF.

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gj Michelob

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 7 2008 4:44:12

Tom Blackshear

Posts: 2304
Joined: Apr. 15 2008

RE: HELP... !!! hammering sound echo... (in reply to gj Michelob)

quote:

ORIGINAL: gj Michelob

Good morning Anders (it’s 5:30 am here in California) and thank you so much for addressing my concern.

I tried my guitars as soon as I read your question: yes, the odd sound is there with or without capo.

Whether I do or do not pick the strings with my right hand fingers, if I simply run a scale (say, open 1st A G [2nd] F E D [3d] C B A) in addition to the normal sound of the strings, there is a sound similar to a “harmonic” , unrelated to the notes I play, that responds to each fret I touch. Also such odd sound is more pronounced on the trebles and almost inexistent on the basses.

I am wondering if it has to do with temperature and weather, and therefore expansion or shrinking of wood (?). It is colder and drier than usual, here in SF.

Sometimes different brand strings can cause a overly simplistic harmonic effect as they don't comply with the top timber like they should. A different kind of torque on the top can cause sympathetic vibrations that are really a hair's line off and need certain string tension/pull to bring it back in line.

Some Spanish guitars will exibit this sensation as they are not tuned past their intended construction method. Some critics of this method think that its all in the labor or lack of labor-time spent to correct any of these potential abnormalities as the guitar ages.

Sometimes, just changing string brands or the string tension will correct the problem. In other cases the top should be retuned to make this sympathetic noise go away. This happens to the best of us and even Bob Ruck has had these vibrations that I noted on one of his classical guitars. Generally speaking, it's all a matter of trying to remove these issues before completing the guitar.

And Yes, weather can have something to do with it.

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Tom Blackshear Guitar maker

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 7 2008 8:53:45

gj Michelob

Posts: 1531
Joined: Nov. 7 2008
From: New York City/San Francisco

RE: HELP... !!! hammering sound echo... (in reply to Tom Blackshear)

I really appreciate and value your advice, Tom, thank you.
I did change strings a few times –different brands and tension- but since it made no difference I finally and hurriedly returned to my usual D’Addario Composite Normal Tension. What is interesting is that ALL my guitars are suddenly producing the “sympathetic” noise, as you described it, and none has ever before acted up in such fashion. Which would nearly dismiss the possibility of any poor craftsmanship in the top tuning.

I will wait a few days to see if the temperature change will reveal responsible for this phenomenon.

Thank you so much for responding to my agitated appeal. It is sort of scary, I am hoping to start recording a few things in a couple of weeks and this would undoubtedly compromise any clean recording.

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gj Michelob

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 7 2008 9:39:19

Tom Blackshear

Posts: 2304
Joined: Apr. 15 2008

RE: HELP... !!! hammering sound echo... (in reply to gj Michelob)

quote:

ORIGINAL: gj Michelob

I really appreciate and value your advice, Tom, thank you.
I did change strings a few times –different brands and tension- but since it made no difference I finally and hurriedly returned to my usual D’Addario Composite Normal Tension. What is interesting is that ALL my guitars are suddenly producing the “sympathetic” noise, as you described it, and none has ever before acted up in such fashion. Which would nearly dismiss the possibility of any poor craftsmanship in the top tuning.

I will wait a few days to see if the temperature change will reveal responsible for this phenomenon.

Thank you so much for responding to my agitated appeal. It is sort of scary, I am hoping to start recording a few things in a couple of weeks and this would undoubtedly compromise any clean recording.

Just a suggestion but have you tried D'Addario J46 regular high tension? Sometimes it's a matter of adjusting to a little higher tension to solve the problem. And you might try it without the composite to see if this is what is responding to the sympathy, since it seems that the treble end is the problem.

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Tom Blackshear Guitar maker

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 7 2008 11:34:08

Stephen Rees

Posts: 32
Joined: Oct. 4 2007
From: Chipping Norton, Oxfordshire

RE: HELP... !!! hammering sound echo... (in reply to gj Michelob)

Hi
You say all your guitars ..... How many guitars is this happening with ?
It is unlikely that they will all suddenly develop the same 'fault'.

Is the problem particularly pronounced on certain notes ..... around F or G maybe ?

I assume you are playing all guitars in the same environment/room ..... try going to another room in the house, well away from where you have been playing, and see what happens.

Just a hunch .... Let me know what happens !

Cheeers !
Steve

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Stephen Rees - UK
www.reesguitars.co.uk

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 7 2008 15:41:02

gj Michelob

Posts: 1531
Joined: Nov. 7 2008
From: New York City/San Francisco

RE: HELP... !!! hammering sound echo... (in reply to Stephen Rees)

Thank you, once again, Tom and, of course Stephen.

Three guitars, Conde, Ramirez and GR Vazquez, are all reacting in the same odd way. I tried all your suggested remedies, changed rooms, temperature and strings, with and without composite G.

I must believe, however, that it may be the generally drier air ... unless my fingers have developed something wrong, as they are a common denominator to all three guitars (!!!???)

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gj Michelob

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 7 2008 17:26:05

Stephen Rees

Posts: 32
Joined: Oct. 4 2007
From: Chipping Norton, Oxfordshire

RE: HELP... !!! hammering sound echo... (in reply to gj Michelob)

Sorry to hear that your guitars are allergic to you !

The reason I suggested changing rooms is that the guitars may have been setting off vibrations in another object(s) in the room at certain frequencies ...... a long shot I know, but not impossible.

A maker I know had this problem once when first stringing-up a guitar. Initially it was thought that the string slots in the nut were pinching the strings, or there was not a clean break angle off the face of the nut, as there was a secondary reverberation sounding a little Sitar like. It turned out to be something in the room, but it was uncanny how it sounded like a problem with the guitar itself.

Good luck with this ..... let us know the outcome.

All the best,
steve

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Stephen Rees - UK
www.reesguitars.co.uk

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 8 2008 0:58:18

Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: HELP... !!! hammering sound echo... (in reply to gj Michelob)

gj,

Are you sure that you're not just homing in on the vibration of the string from the fingered fret to the nut or capoed fret?

Easy way to test is just to actually pluck this portion of string and see if it's the same "harmonic" you're hearing.

cheers,

Ron

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 8 2008 2:17:01

Estevan

Posts: 1936
Joined: Dec. 20 2006
From: Torontolucía

RE: HELP... !!! hammering sound echo... (in reply to gj Michelob)

quote:

It is colder and drier than usual, here in SF.

Get a humidifier (if you can find one in SF)

And get one of these:
Digital Humidity Gauge

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 8 2008 5:13:54

Ricardo

Posts: 14828
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: HELP... !!! hammering sound echo... (in reply to gj Michelob)

Sounds to me what happens when new trebles strings are not fully stretched, and fighting it out in the upper harmonics. I give the trebles strings about a week to truly settle in and start "supporting" each other rather than fighting. The fact it happens to all your guitars tells me it is probably not the guitar nor environment, it is the strings tuning.

The other thing is, it could be your ear is just suddenly starting to notice upper harmonics and the resultant mathematical problems with tempered tuning. I first noticed this when I was about 12, messing around with the tuning of my guitar and could not make a simple scale sound right. I thought the guitar's intonation was all f-ed up and was almost in tears about it. I got used to it though, and years later I learned about modal music vs tonal music, tempered tuning and such, and I felt relieved.

But we are just guessing without experiencing it ourselves with YOUR guitars.

Ricardo

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 8 2008 6:41:16

gj Michelob

Posts: 1531
Joined: Nov. 7 2008
From: New York City/San Francisco

RE: HELP... !!! hammering sound echo... (in reply to Ricardo)

Thank you, Ron, Steven, Estevan... and Ricardo you may have a point about the strings: in fact i did change strings on all guitars saturday. Perhpas they all are in need to settle in, while the drier air may have exacerbated matters.

A daunting and then frustrating experience, indeed, 'felt like throwing my arms in the air and quitting these awesome guitars now seemingly affected by a "harmonic virus".

I am so grateful you all intervened to the rescue, it is quite comforting, really, thank you so much.

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gj Michelob

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 8 2008 7:16:03

jshelton5040

Posts: 1500
Joined: Jan. 17 2005

RE: HELP... !!! hammering sound echo... (in reply to gj Michelob)

quote:

ORIGINAL: gj Michelob

Three guitars, Conde, Ramirez and GR Vazquez, are all reacting in the same odd way. I tried all your suggested remedies, changed rooms, temperature and strings, with and without composite G.

I must believe, however, that it may be the generally drier air ...

Sounds like your guitars are reacting to dry air. When the humidity falls the topwood shrinks and the dome in the top collapses. This can cause all kinds of problems with buzzing, funny overtones, etc.

Put a damp sponge in a ziplock. Punch some pinholes in it and hang it from the strings inside the soundhole with something like a paperclip. It will probably solve the problem overnight.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 8 2008 17:23:48

pacowannab

Posts: 35
Joined: Mar. 3 2008

RE: HELP... !!! hammering sound echo... (in reply to jshelton5040)

I'm with Ricardo on this one. I think it's probably the new treble strings. I have had that problem before (especially if I remove all of the strings before re-stringing when playing with the saddle or dicking around with my nut). ... "Here comes Johnny with his pecker in his hand/He's a one ball man/And he's off to the rodeo..."

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 8 2008 20:05:38

gj Michelob

Posts: 1531
Joined: Nov. 7 2008
From: New York City/San Francisco

RE: HELP... !!! hammering sound echo... (in reply to pacowannab)

JShelton and PacoWannab(e), thnk you. I like to think it has to do with strings and humidity. I will leave a "dampit"tube in each guitar for the two weeks i am off two europe -leaving in one hour-.

Once again, all answers were truly appreciated and most helpful in evaluating the scary phenomenon.

Ciao, 'going home to Venice, Italy, for a few days. 'need to kiss my mom -and some clients- Merry Christmas!!

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gj Michelob

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 9 2008 4:25:10

falsetanuova

Posts: 28
Joined: Sep. 26 2007
From: Italy

RE: HELP... !!! hammering sound echo... (in reply to gj Michelob)

Just had to say, it truly gives one pause to think how they handled it back in the day, when there were no string brands, laser/machine/scientific construction, etc..

Safe journey a Venezia..you know it is insane now with the rain and water levels I immagine.

Unbelievable...it is very sad really. Proprio pazzesco..non ho visto il sole in 2 settimane.

Tanti auguri anche a te.
Buon viaggio!

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 13 2008 3:08:20

gj Michelob

Posts: 1531
Joined: Nov. 7 2008
From: New York City/San Francisco

RE: HELP... !!! hammering sound echo... (in reply to falsetanuova)

Forza Italia, Flasetanuova... so pleased to find another italian on this Forum. Are you in the US or our Mother Land?

auguri anche a te, caro.
ciao

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gj Michelob

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 13 2008 7:40:41