pulgar/golpe

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pulgar/golpe

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val

Posts: 800
Joined: Apr. 4 2007
From: London

pulgar/golpe

Hi
Finally getting down to some work after a teacher put me on to some Basic Level Oscar Herrero, which seems to focus on technique. I've dabbled a lot with flamenco over the years, but never really done golpes. Now I'm working on Estudio No.2 Pulgar/Golpe (Solea), which is pretty well all chords with thumb downstrokes and a golpe on most chords.

Any tips on hand position, is the golpe simultaneous with the downstroke (or just before/after), which finger(s) do I use for the golpe? I won't be seeing this teacher again for a few months so am on my own with this.

Has anyone used this book - 21 Estudios para Guitarra Flamenca - Basic Level. If so, what do you think?

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 24 2008 14:57:01

JasonMcGuire

Posts: 1141
Joined: Apr. 10 2007

RE: pulgar/golpe (in reply to val) 2 votes

Tap with the ring and middle fingers more or less simultaneously with the downstroke. Be sure and lift the fingers a bit so they have so space to "travel", bring the thumb to meet the fingers crossing the strings along the way. The chord happens a hair earlier than tap in all actuality but you don't really hear the space.

Here is a quick video demonstration......
Golpe/Pulgar Demo

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 24 2008 19:14:07

Ailsa

Posts: 2277
Joined: Apr. 17 2007
From: South East England

RE: pulgar/golpe (in reply to JasonMcGuire)

That was a cool video Jason - really clear and helpful.

The one I find more difficult is golpe with index downstroke. My 'a' finger reaches the soundboard but just doesn't make much of a sound! It just sort of taps it very gently

Is this just a question of strength do you think? Or position?

Would be really grateful for any tips as I often feel my playing sounds a bit naked without the golpes

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 25 2008 10:11:37

Ricardo

Posts: 14828
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: pulgar/golpe (in reply to Ailsa) 1 votes

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ailsa

That was a cool video Jason - really clear and helpful.

The one I find more difficult is golpe with index downstroke. My 'a' finger reaches the soundboard but just doesn't make much of a sound! It just sort of taps it very gently Is this just a question of strength do you think? Or position?

Would be really grateful for any tips as I often feel my playing sounds a bit naked without the golpes

One thing helps my students is practice 4 notes per beat like this with index strumming:
Tap up down up, tap up down up, etc. Keep doing it for a while then LOOK at your index finger as you do this. Notice it jumps OVER the strings when you tap, but still passes over them. You just need to coordinate letting the index "touch" the strings on the way down as you do a good strong golpe. It is all in the mind. Just keep the rhythm going and you will get it.

Ricardo

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 25 2008 10:24:38

Ailsa

Posts: 2277
Joined: Apr. 17 2007
From: South East England

RE: pulgar/golpe (in reply to Ricardo)

Thank you Ricardo

I'll give that a try.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 25 2008 10:44:10

mark indigo

Posts: 3625
Joined: Dec. 5 2007

RE: pulgar/golpe (in reply to val)

quote:

is the golpe simultaneous with the downstroke (or just before/after), which finger(s) do I use for the golpe?

while you can use different fingers and combinations of fingers, i believe the most common to be the a finger for golpe....

as the thumb stroke involves wrist movement, if the thumb strokes first, it will put the hand out of position for the golpe. When i learned this technique i practised starting with the golpe, then downstroke with the thumb, then bringing the hand back into position with the thumb on the bass string, then golpe, then downstroke with the thumb, repeat. After a time i was able to co-ordinate this sequence of movements faster so that the effect of the golpe almost dragged the thumb off the bass string to initiate the downstroke, and the thumb stroke and golpe became more or less simultaneous.

I know this is contrary to what Jason has posted, and i don't want to argue about it, that's just my experience.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 25 2008 11:45:47

JasonMcGuire

Posts: 1141
Joined: Apr. 10 2007

RE: pulgar/golpe (in reply to mark indigo)

The "a" finger alone is what I use in every other case, but combined with a downstroke using the thumb, it is common to do it the way I showed in the video from the post above using "a+m"... I am sure Ricardo and other players here can varify that it is the norm.

Here is another video demonstrating the problem Alisa referred to. The combo of downstroke using "i" and golpe with the "a" finger......... notice how the "a" finger meets the top of the guitar and rests against the 1st string. This helps with stability and keeps the "a" finger from making a scratchy sound on the top of the guitar.

Index/Golpe Combo Video Demonstration

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 25 2008 12:09:31

mark indigo

Posts: 3625
Joined: Dec. 5 2007

RE: pulgar/golpe (in reply to JasonMcGuire)

quote:

The "a" finger alone is what I use in every other case, but combined with a downstroke using the thumb, it is common to do it the way I showed in the video from the post above using "a+m"...

my a finger is so strong if i use m as well i break the soundboard....

seriously though, it's just the way i learnt it, and it does the job... and my a finger is actually quite strong, i have had other guitarists say they thought i was playing rest stroke with my a finger when i was playing a free stroke, and i have had to work to make my golpes a bit less forceful 'cos they were too loud to begin with (probably came from hanging out with Jingle a few times and watching Marcial Heredia close up!).

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 25 2008 13:05:24

XXX

Posts: 4400
Joined: Apr. 14 2005

RE: pulgar/golpe (in reply to val)

well i use both golpe techniques.. a+m is when you play rest strokes with p, and its more ONE movement of the hand, instead of just stretching the fingers towards the soundboard (that also happens of course).
only a i use for less intensive golpes and when i play free strokes with p. best example is solea arpeggio on E major chord.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 25 2008 13:25:58

mark indigo

Posts: 3625
Joined: Dec. 5 2007

RE: pulgar/golpe (in reply to XXX)

quote:

a+m is when you play rest strokes with p, and its more ONE movement of the hand

a or a+m lift/extend and drop/flex onto soundboard, thumb flexes across strings, downward rotation of wrist.... i make that 4 movements.... and then the hand moves back up from the wrist to do whatever happens next, so it could be 5....

quote:

when i play free strokes with p. best example is solea arpeggio on E major chord

you mean the remate/end of compas/beats 10, 11, 12? i use rest stroke for the 6th/E string AND 5th, 4th and 3rd strings in the basic/simple version

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 25 2008 13:47:03

val

Posts: 800
Joined: Apr. 4 2007
From: London

RE: pulgar/golpe (in reply to JasonMcGuire)

Thanks so much for this Jason. The description and video were really helpful.
Ricardo, Mark and Deniz, I do also greatly appreciate your input and will try all these things. Like your early tries Mark, at the moment I'm finding my golpes a bit forceful - then on other occasions like you Ailsa - I don't hear them at all.
I'll stick with this study for a few more weeks!

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 25 2008 15:14:08

JasonMcGuire

Posts: 1141
Joined: Apr. 10 2007

RE: pulgar/golpe (in reply to val)

Depending on who you talk to, my golpes might be considered too forceful too.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 25 2008 19:03:59

Ailsa

Posts: 2277
Joined: Apr. 17 2007
From: South East England

RE: pulgar/golpe (in reply to JasonMcGuire)

quote:

ORIGINAL: JasonMcGuire

my golpes might be considered too forceful too.

No no - I like them Jason. Only wish I could get that clarity myself.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 26 2008 1:56:55

XXX

Posts: 4400
Joined: Apr. 14 2005

RE: pulgar/golpe (in reply to mark indigo)

quote:

ORIGINAL: mark indigo

you mean the remate/end of compas/beats 10, 11, 12? i use rest stroke for the 6th/E string AND 5th, 4th and 3rd strings in the basic/simple version

ah yes of course that is... just forget what i wrote. I must have been in a parallel universe when i wrote it.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 26 2008 8:27:32