Peg problem

Costs are rising and times are tough.
Please consider a donation to keep this
place going.

Welcome to one of the most active flamenco sites on the Internet. Guests can read most posts but if you want to participate click here to register.

This site is dedicated to the memory of Paco de Lucía, Ron Mitchell, Guy Williams, Linda Elvira, Philip John Lee, Craig Eros, Ben Woods, David Serva and Tom Blackshear who went ahead of us.

We receive 12,200 visitors a month from 200 countries and 1.7 million page impressions a year. To advertise on this site please contact us.

Peg problem

You are logged in as Guest

Users viewing this topic: none

Printable Version

All Forums >>Discussions >>Lutherie >>

Page: [1]

Message

<< Newer Topic Older Topic >>

KenK

Posts: 43
Joined: Aug. 6 2005

Peg problem

I'm wondering what I can do to make my pegs a little easier to use.
I've been using "peg dope", but that's not making them entirely easy to use. They're either to loose or to tight.

Is there a liquid lubricant to try?
Olive oil maybe?

It's not impossible to tune, but I've seen better.

Thanks

Ken

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 21 2008 8:42:30

Anders Eliasson

Posts: 5780
Joined: Oct. 18 2006

RE: Peg problem (in reply to KenK)

Hi Ken

Are you sure that you use the pegs right. Normally they stick when you satrt playing, and standard is that you have to take them a little out when starting the day. A litle out, detune and tune up, not pressing the peg to much into the hole. This way it shouldnt be to tight and you should be able to tune without problems. Thats what classical violiists do.

My favorite mixture of dope is a bit of vaseline and a bit of very fine pumice powder. To much vaseline, it slips, to much pumice, it sticks.

Use your time and add the mixture various times. This way it acts more or less like a film between the peg and the headstock.

Give it a try.

_____________________________

Blog: http://news-from-the-workshop.blogspot.com/

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 21 2008 23:42:21

KenK

Posts: 43
Joined: Aug. 6 2005

RE: Peg problem (in reply to Anders Eliasson)

Hi Anders-

Yes- I'm using them the right way.

I'll try the vaseline.
Don't think I need any pumice-(To loose is not the problem)
How do you mix it?
The peg dope I have is like a crayon.
A layer of dope followed by a layer of vaseline?

Thanks for the idea!

Ken

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 22 2008 5:36:41

Anders Eliasson

Posts: 5780
Joined: Oct. 18 2006

RE: Peg problem (in reply to KenK)

I mix:

a bit of vaseline, and a lot of pumice on the peg. Insert the peg, turn it around a couple of times. Take it out and clean away excess on headstock.

repeat with less of both until result is satisfactory. It might take a couple of times. And sometimes after a while it might be nescessary to repeat. When a good result is achieved, it normally last a long time.

god luck
Anders

_____________________________

Blog: http://news-from-the-workshop.blogspot.com/

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 22 2008 8:47:34

KenK

Posts: 43
Joined: Aug. 6 2005

RE: Peg problem (in reply to Anders Eliasson)

Interesting-

So you're not using any of the regular peg dope?
I don't know where to find pumice, but I'm sure I'll figure it out.
Thanks for the advice.

Ken

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 22 2008 9:23:32

Anders Eliasson

Posts: 5780
Joined: Oct. 18 2006

RE: Peg problem (in reply to KenK)

Ken, It has to be a very high quality pumice with a very fine and regular consistancy. I buy it in Germany. Its for pore filling

_____________________________

Blog: http://news-from-the-workshop.blogspot.com/

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 23 2008 0:29:47

Anders Eliasson

Posts: 5780
Joined: Oct. 18 2006

RE: Peg problem (in reply to KenK)

You can also do the same thing with a mixture of soap and chalk. Its the old fashion way of doing it. It works very well. Just a bit slower to work with.
The best soaps are these creamy health hippy soaps which smells very nice.

_____________________________

Blog: http://news-from-the-workshop.blogspot.com/

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 23 2008 0:33:04

KenK

Posts: 43
Joined: Aug. 6 2005

RE: Peg problem (in reply to KenK)

I think I'll try the vaseline and pumice

Ken

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 23 2008 6:58:05

gj Michelob

Posts: 1531
Joined: Nov. 7 2008
From: New York City/San Francisco

RE: Peg problem (in reply to KenK)

I found that many pegs, even from fine luthiers, are originally poorly fitted. Although a bit too obvious a warning, I am sure you have had some luthier look at them before playing with goo-glue & googled potions.... my two cents.
ciao

_____________________________

gj Michelob

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 23 2008 7:07:29

Anders Eliasson

Posts: 5780
Joined: Oct. 18 2006

RE: Peg problem (in reply to KenK)

gj

You cannot do any harm with what I suggested. They are old tricks. The chalk ad soap thing has been used for centuries. Its a matter of making a film between the peg and the hole. You mix two factors, a slippery and a stickery to get the right resistance

I´ve made quite a few pegheads, and I know what you mean with poorly fitted. The main problem is that many luthiers make few pegheads and thus they dont invest in what you need. A reamer AND a pegshaver. Then they use the pegs as they come from the factory. To thick and not well enough conical.

_____________________________

Blog: http://news-from-the-workshop.blogspot.com/

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 23 2008 22:43:16

gj Michelob

Posts: 1531
Joined: Nov. 7 2008
From: New York City/San Francisco

RE: Peg problem (in reply to Anders Eliasson)

Sorry Anders, I realize my post could be misnterpreted. I did not mean the mix you suggest is dangerous or wrong. Simply, as you seem to agree, that one should look at the root of the problem (whther pegs were originally fitted properly) and then (if the answer is in the positive) proceed with a mix which will remedy Tight & Loose.

I have three instruments with pegs, and all have required some adjustments by a fine luthier, regardless of the original maker's otherwsie extraordinary work on the guitar in general.

Some makers seem to have devoted more time to studying pegs, friction and specifications; you seem to fall in this category and your clients are certainly lucky.

cheers

_____________________________

gj Michelob

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 24 2008 8:53:12

Anders Eliasson

Posts: 5780
Joined: Oct. 18 2006

RE: Peg problem (in reply to KenK)

To me, pegs have been part of my life for almost 30 years. First playing the violin and now the flamenco guitar. I think I can say that I understand pegs. What they can and what they cant.

The first thing I asked Ken about was if he was sure he was using the pegs right. This because my experience tells me that big majority of players have absolutely no idea of how pegs work. And some builders fall into this category as well.
The most important part on builder side is to use the two tools, the reamer and the shaver correctly and on the players side, knowing how much pressure towards the headstock that the peg needs in order to not go loose and when and how to adjust the pegs wih dope etc.
When this comes together pegs work quite well.

_____________________________

Blog: http://news-from-the-workshop.blogspot.com/

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 24 2008 10:39:27

Doitsujin

Posts: 5078
Joined: Apr. 10 2005

RE: Peg problem (in reply to KenK)

quote:

I'm wondering what I can do to make my pegs a little easier to use.
I've been using "peg dope", but that's not making them entirely easy to use. They're either to loose or to tight.

Is there a liquid lubricant to try?
Olive oil maybe?

Whaterver dude....

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 24 2008 12:36:37

RobJe

Posts: 731
Joined: Dec. 16 2006
From: UK

RE: Peg problem (in reply to KenK)

As usual, Anders gives great advice. I have had 3 pegheads and I have just tried the 'pull out push in' trick for the first time - great! I use a violin peg paste once or twice a year and I have never had serious problems. The thinnest pegs are my favourites (Manuel Bellido).
Rob

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 25 2008 3:23:50

Tom Blackshear

Posts: 2304
Joined: Apr. 15 2008

RE: Peg problem (in reply to KenK)

quote:

ORIGINAL: KenK

I'm wondering what I can do to make my pegs a little easier to use.
I've been using "peg dope", but that's not making them entirely easy to use. They're either to loose or to tight.

Is there a liquid lubricant to try?
Olive oil maybe?

It's not impossible to tune, but I've seen better................"

Thanks

Ken

I use candle wax and pumice or baby powder. You'll know the right mix as you work with it. Apply the candle wax and work it into the peg hole, and if it is too slippery, then dust a little powder on it.

_____________________________

Tom Blackshear Guitar maker

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 25 2008 8:58:15

Anders Eliasson

Posts: 5780
Joined: Oct. 18 2006

RE: Peg problem (in reply to KenK)

Hi Rob

I´m glad mi little "trick" was usefull. The violin headstock (the snail) is made so that you have something to grab while you pull out, turn and push in. It makes things easyer, but it is fully adaptable to the flamenco guitar.

TomB, yes, of course, whatever slipery/sticky mix will work.

My girlriend has just made some homemade soap based on oliveoil. Its at the same time very hard, almost as a candle) and greasy. I expect it to work wonders together with a bit of pumice.

_____________________________

Blog: http://news-from-the-workshop.blogspot.com/

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 25 2008 9:17:40

sam_m

Posts: 71
Joined: Nov. 24 2008
From: St.Helens, England

RE: Peg problem (in reply to KenK)

This may be relevant, or may be a daft question, but still.

Would something like this work for the peg on my ceijillos? It has a tendency to pop out unless I really jam it in (oo er!) and I wondered if there's anything that might help it stick.

Then again, it may get better with use as I haven't used it a great deal.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 25 2008 9:51:12

Anders Eliasson

Posts: 5780
Joined: Oct. 18 2006

RE: Peg problem (in reply to KenK)

If the cejilla is well made, yes it´ll work.

BUT, most cejillas are poorly made. They havent made the hole with a reamer, so its not conical. So you have a straight hole with a conical peg.

Or even worse. The hole is to big so the peg bottoms out in the hole. If this is the case, "varnish" the peg with brush on super glue so that it gets bigger. I´ve done this a couple of times and it works for years.

_____________________________

Blog: http://news-from-the-workshop.blogspot.com/

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 25 2008 22:35:07

edguerin

Posts: 1589
Joined: Dec. 24 2007
From: Siegburg, Alemania

RE: Peg problem (in reply to KenK)

quote:

My girlriend has just made some homemade soap based on oliveoil. Its at the same time very hard, almost as a candle) and greasy. I expect it to work wonders together with a bit of pumice

Will you be using that on my blanca?

_____________________________

Ed

El aficionado solitario
Alemania

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 26 2008 0:01:41

sam_m

Posts: 71
Joined: Nov. 24 2008
From: St.Helens, England

RE: Peg problem (in reply to KenK)

Thanks Anders, I think you might be right about the hole being straight but it's hard to tell. It seems to be working a little better now anyway, but if it starts playing up I'll try what you suggested.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 26 2008 3:22:37