PIP falsetas are obsolete

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pacowannab

Posts: 35
Joined: Mar. 3 2008

PIP falsetas are obsolete

I was reading a review of Paco Pena's "Toques Flamenco" book when I came across the following sentence: "The compas patterns are now obsolete as are most PIP falsetas." Can anyone explain what this means? Is he suggesting that traditional cut-and-paste falsetas are dead? If so, should I stop trying to learn "falsettas" in favor of complete "pieces"?

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 27 2008 10:01:18

Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: PIP falsetas are obsolete (in reply to pacowannab)

quote:

"The compas patterns are now obsolete as are most PIP falsetas."

Utter rubbish IMO.
The reviewer is merely reflecting his own taste and generalizing upon that.
I bet even an ultra-modern player like Gerardo Nuñez would laugh at that statement.
(Before nailing him to the floorboards

)

cheers,

Ron

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 27 2008 11:34:31

duende

Posts: 3053
Joined: Dec. 15 2003
From: Sweden

RE: PIP falsetas are obsolete (in reply to pacowannab)

thats just so ****ing dumb

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 27 2008 22:00:46

XXX

Posts: 4400
Joined: Apr. 14 2005

RE: PIP falsetas are obsolete (in reply to pacowannab)

quote:

ORIGINAL: pacowannab

Is he suggesting that traditional cut-and-paste falsetas are dead?

no, pip is a technique. "cut-and-paste" is also doable with modern falsetas. they are just longer usually.
i usually dont read reviews.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 28 2008 2:07:27

henrym3483

Posts: 1584
Joined: Nov. 13 2005
From: Limerick,Ireland

RE: PIP falsetas are obsolete (in reply to pacowannab)

gerardo does pip falsetas in his vid, but at a blinding speed and i dont think anyone would say it isnt flamenco, parilla de jerez had this technique down solid, and id love to be able to do half of what parilla could, genuine masterful technique and great falsetas using this technique and its very traditional sounding which i like.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 28 2008 4:42:43

Ricardo

Posts: 14845
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: PIP falsetas are obsolete (in reply to pacowannab)

The reviewer is just saying, there is a lot more to learn than the material being demonstrated in that book. "Obsolete" is refering to the fact that if you only play those rhythm patterns, you are missing out on the current methods of accompaniment, and will be pegged by aficionados, or whoever you might be playing for that is up on the current trends, as a staunch traditionalist.

The pip statement is not true however, as that technique is still quite common even by modern players. But he/she was actually refer to the specific falsetas that use that technique. I personally would not take offence to the review, but I think that it is important for everyone to learn the old stuff to get a firm foundation. What you do once you get that foundation however, is up to personal taste. Ignoring the fact that there are new ways, and new compas patterns is not good either. A more diplomatic review may simply say the material is very "traditional" and leave it at that.

Ricardo

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 28 2008 11:56:11

Exitao

Posts: 907
Joined: Mar. 13 2006
From: Vancouver, Canada

RE: PIP falsetas are obsolete (in reply to Ricardo)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricardo

The reviewer is just saying, there is a lot more to learn than the material being demonstrated in that book. "Obsolete" is refering to the fact that if you only play those rhythm patterns, you are missing out on the current methods of accompaniment, and will be pegged by aficionados, or whoever you might be playing for that is up on the current trends, as a staunch traditionalist.

I'm a little confused by this. How have compas patterns changed? I thought that flamenco compas was the one thing that was supposed to be inviolable unless it was libre, and even then too much straying was frowned upon...?

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 28 2008 16:24:10

Ricardo

Posts: 14845
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: PIP falsetas are obsolete (in reply to Exitao)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Exitao

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricardo

The reviewer is just saying, there is a lot more to learn than the material being demonstrated in that book. "Obsolete" is refering to the fact that if you only play those rhythm patterns, you are missing out on the current methods of accompaniment, and will be pegged by aficionados, or whoever you might be playing for that is up on the current trends, as a staunch traditionalist.

I'm a little confused by this. How have compas patterns changed? I thought that flamenco compas was the one thing that was supposed to be inviolable unless it was libre, and even then too much straying was frowned upon...?

Compas patterns refers to how you strum, the rhythms you make, not the basic beat. They have "changed" over the years, become more sophisticated and "funky", but honestly the different rhythms of flamenco guitar are very personal when you get to specifics. The evolution of flamenco rhythms can be seen by following the work of just one player's style, but that does not mean that other older players, or players who play the same as they did fifty years ago, that their way is "obsolete".

There are just different ways to make compas, and it is the creative beauty of flamenco guitar, especially in regards to accompaniment. Old school flamenco is legit side by side with modern flamenco rhythms, whether an aficionado "likes" it or not. It is a shame when the old patterns get looked at as "boring", because they are the base. Likewise it is not fair when more synchopated rhythms are not understood, and looked at, unfairly, as "not flamenco" just because they are more sophisticated and challenging. It all comes down to taste again.

Ricardo

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 28 2008 21:43:40

Exitao

Posts: 907
Joined: Mar. 13 2006
From: Vancouver, Canada

RE: PIP falsetas are obsolete (in reply to pacowannab)

Thanks for the reply. I may have to revisit this later when I'm better able to digest this. Look forward to this thread getting bumped in 6months to a year's time.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 29 2008 0:35:59