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B chords
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Ricardo
Posts: 15165
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC
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RE: B chords (in reply to HemeolaMan)
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quote:
ricardo, a pdf, =) Thanks. Some corrections, but I am too tired now. For example, when talking #11 for Bb chords, always use that, no b5. And "function linear"? What does that mean? In most cases the B chords funtion as V7 or tonic phrygian. The Bb chords are functioning mainly as II chord in A phrygian etc. The spellings should reflect this. The last chord would be used as A#(b9), so you don't have B natural and Bb in the same chord. Some fingering things, I usually barre with one finger the basses. And the standard notation spellings for things here and in bulerias too, all wrong. I know the computer does not understand the correct spellings, but the human transcriber needs to take care about that IMO. Otherwise, just do away with the standard notation all together.
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Date Jan. 10 2008 9:03:08
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Ricardo
Posts: 15165
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC
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RE: B chords (in reply to mrMagenta)
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quote:
ricardo, why no Bb(b5)? Scale is A Bb C (C#) D E F G. Bbmaj7=BbDFA. So Where is the b5??? (Fb). E is not a flat 5 in this context. Just because there is no F natural in the chord, does not mean the note E can be correctly "misspelled" as Fb to equal a b5 in the chord naming. It is a #4 or better named #11. Keep it simple is my point. quote:
functional linear in this case is a classical harmony expression. Classical music does not use modality. Please don't think of the phrygian tonic the same way you think of the V7 or viidim in the relative minor keys. Different thing IMO even though the notes take on a similar spelling and sound. Flamenco is not classical music based. Tonic has to have a special position in the harmony of the music. quote:
i disagree with ricardo on the b5 Disagree all you want. The more this becomes an argument about correct music theory, the further away from flamenco we get. The point I had all along was to distinguish the flamenco voicings from your typical jazz/classical chart style chords. If you want to argue a b5 is more correct than #11 etc, then we are really straying from the point of flamenco "harmony". This is not jazz. Even still, b5 is "bluesy", a #11 is "lydianish" or something. Hope you get my point...you can imply the wrong "vibe" by giving the wrong spelling. Sus4 implies the 3rd, major or minor is deliberately avoided. Add11 you can have the third still there. In the case of flamenco phrygian tonics (B phrygian here), it is important to imply the major 3rd. It is NOT a sus4, the 11th is added by the open string ringing out. Anyway, I am not trying to impose my theory ideas on you guys. The thing is, you need to think about the context of these flamenco chords and why they are special and different from jazz voiceings. Honestly, there is not a need for even trying for a "correct" theoretical spelling, because the maestros of flamenco guitar don't use them. It is just for me, I don't think it is helpful to imply a "wrong" scale view of a chord. Remember chords are made from scales. Ricardo
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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |
Date Jan. 10 2008 16:04:01
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HemeolaMan
Posts: 1514
Joined: Jul. 13 2007
From: Chicago
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RE: B chords (in reply to HemeolaMan)
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I understand what you are saying, and i've thought about it. I will use your suggestions regardless. I disagreed, but I know better than to ignore you guys. (as a sidebar, i've been working on my attack lol, jk flo!) I trust you guys to be correct. that is never in question. I really appreciate that you are taking this kind of time to check this stuff out. and ricardo aside from the fact that most of your posts on alegrias and bulerias have been way over my head so far, i thank you for taking the time to contribute! it really means alot =) But who is this book for? if its for us, then I needn't be revising and putting it all shiny nice into a book. needn't be naming chords at all, its already done. If it were for flamencos... I think they'd all laugh lol. whats the use in naming a chord? these were originally organized under letter names, just a b c etc. no distinction beteween qualities, major minor. this project isnt just the chord book, it goes with the realbook. to me, the target audience is either total beginners who may have picked up a mel bay book here or there, or jazz/classical players.........guys who are prettttty darn familiar with western harmony. its not like we really need a snazzy version on the foro, we all ahave the original lol either way, its written in english, unless someone whose spanish is far more eloquent than mine should care to offer up his services....... but that sitll limits the demographic even further my plans for distribution are by free ebook. and if the demand is high enough, printed copies sold at cost. basically i'm saying, most of the viewing audience is either totallyl inexperienced or already from a western harmony background. in any case the amount of literature out there that supports a mode based flamenco harmony background development is slim in comparison. probability says the more jazz spelled we make this, the more accessable it will be. I will of course, still be using your spellings, and i thank you for catching the mistakes. it takes a keen eye, and i'm mostly concerned with just producing material right now!
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Date Jan. 10 2008 16:29:01
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HemeolaMan
Posts: 1514
Joined: Jul. 13 2007
From: Chicago
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RE: B chords (in reply to Ricardo)
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what kinda cut you want? lets see, i'm handling the legal stuff, lawyer fees expenses, printing, copyright, production, engraving, and editing....... to produce a chord book with your name in big letters, and a big photo of you on the cover of the chord book, to be included in another book, with your name in it and another photo of you, with a paragraph explaining how you're the best thing on earth since sliced bread. ........... to be distributed to all the flamenco speaking peoples of the planet. still want to talk money? okay, you get 50% of all profits. of a book sold at cost if it ever makes print lol. if you wan't to make money off of this, tell me now. because you published all of this stuff online already. there's no copyright to hide behind. i can stop production if you want. as far as intellectual property being protected, that ship has sailed lol. i can gaurantee you if we dont get some laws on this this **** is going to show up in someone elses book. at least this way we have a chance though, consider this is free publicity, at no cost to you except the mild annoyance of dealing with us =). you don't have to pay a single cent. and your glorious work gets published. better call a photographer. i expect something you'd be proud to have on the cover of a book
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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |
Date Jan. 10 2008 16:49:26
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