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What about a Sevilliana?   You are logged in as Guest
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Zorro02

Posts: 151
Joined: Feb. 23 2007
 

What about a Sevilliana? 
Hi all,

I have searched the foro for articles in relation to the Sevilliana. There does not appear to be much written about it.

This is as you are aware, a fantastic rhythm and is a great medium for dancers and guitarists to demonstrate their skills together.

Just curious to understand why the sevilliana is not discussed more and given the credit it deserves. Is it not fashionable or is it frowned upon by the guitarist by being too simplistic in nature, or is there another reason?

I would love to show you my progress in Sevilliana as a guitarist thus far, but really would not do it justice and would leave a demonstration possibly to more exerienced players and even dancers!

Here is a fine example I have come across.



Are there two guitars in action here?????

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 5 2007 14:35:41
 
Kate

Posts: 1827
Joined: Jul. 8 2003
From: Living in Granada, Andalucía

RE: What about a Sevilliana? (in reply to Zorro02) 
Maybe it 's because Sevillanas is considered Spanish folklore and not flamenco. When I first came to Granada I saw grafitti saying " Flamenco si Sevillanos no !"
Kate

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 5 2007 14:58:20
 
val

 

Posts: 800
Joined: Apr. 4 2007
 

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 5 2007 16:34:38
 
Ailsa

Posts: 2277
Joined: Apr. 17 2007
From: South East England

RE: What about a Sevilliana? (in reply to val) 
Val, Jenny, Romanza and Manzmann - we're going to be doing Sevillanas on the Pena guitar course session in January, so hopefully we'll all have some progress to show.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 5 2007 17:10:09
 
Stu

Posts: 2529
Joined: Jan. 30 2007
From: London (the South of it), England

RE: What about a Sevilliana? (in reply to Ailsa) 
quote:

we're going to be doing Sevillanas on the Pena guitar course session in January


Nice one. I like a bit of Sevillanas. I'm gonna practice some now!!
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 6 2007 13:12:15
 
Jenny

 

Posts: 97
Joined: Mar. 13 2007
From: Oxford, UK

RE: What about a Sevilliana? (in reply to Zorro02) 
I know nothing about sevillanas - been too busy concentrating on other palos, so just had a look and found this:

http://www.sevillanas.tv/

By the sounds of it I'm going to love it! Ailsa, can you do the dance too?

Jenny
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 6 2007 19:59:09
 
Adam

Posts: 1156
Joined: Dec. 6 2006
From: Hamilton, ON

RE: What about a Sevilliana? (in reply to Zorro02) 
yeah yeah, a lot of people say it's folk music and not flamenco, but they say the same with fandangos and i like a good fandangos. they have rhythmic drive and often express real emotion (like flamenco should!), but i usually get neither of those from sevillanas. they are in a way too folksy, it takes a lot of work to stretch a sevillanas into something that offers what the rest of flamenco does.

a very famous and particularly awesome sevillanas, duet with PDL + sanlucar from the saura movie on sevillanas!
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 6 2007 21:33:21
 
andresito

Posts: 377
Joined: Feb. 20 2007
From: New Holland

RE: What about a Sevilliana? (in reply to Adam) 
Why is it that flamenco fans say 'No, Sevillanas aren't flamenco' but nearly every great flamenco guitarist has one on at least one of their albums?

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 6 2007 22:21:11
 
HemeolaMan

Posts: 1514
Joined: Jul. 13 2007
From: Chicago

RE: What about a Sevilliana? (in reply to andresito) 
here's a question, did we ever settle whether flamenco was a form of spanish folk music?????????

lol, i mean form outside of spain, from my perspective looking in, its the same country, maybe different influences

but thats like an american saying that blues isn't at all realted to jazz..... which is ****!

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 7 2007 0:22:39
 
Zorro02

Posts: 151
Joined: Feb. 23 2007
 

RE: What about a Sevilliana? (in reply to Zorro02) 
Well, I am really non the wiser.

I can certainly accept that it is the opinion of others that sevillanas is not considered flamenco.

Ramparts suggests that the Fandangos are also excluded from the flamenco form, but because of the emotions expressed and their rhythmic nature, it is possibly accepted as being more flamenco than a sevillana

In my opinion good traditional Sevillana oozes emotion, albeit a completely different one to that of a Fandango. As far as rhythm is concerned, I suppose it depends on which Sevillana you listen to.

I have heared the crappy touristy stuff, and hate it. But as andresito states, listen to a Paco Peña or Paco de Lucia Sevillanas, that is something completely different.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 7 2007 10:56:31
 
Kate

Posts: 1827
Joined: Jul. 8 2003
From: Living in Granada, Andalucía

RE: What about a Sevilliana? (in reply to HemeolaMan) 
quote:

ORIGINAL: HemeolaMan

here's a question, did we ever settle whether flamenco was a form of spanish folk music?????????


Flamenco is derived from Spanish folk music ( as well as Gypsy, Arab and Jewish music). There are some very basic aspects which differentiate Sevillanos from the Flamenco palos. One being that sevillanas are danced in groups, flamenco never is unless it is a contrived theatre show. Flamenco is only sung solo whereas Sevillanas are sung by groups. (However I have seen flamenco artists singing together but this was again contrived for a stage show).

Kate

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 7 2007 17:14:22
 
val

 

Posts: 800
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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 7 2007 22:58:04
 
Ailsa

Posts: 2277
Joined: Apr. 17 2007
From: South East England

RE: What about a Sevilliana? (in reply to Adam) 
quote:

ORIGINAL: ramparts
a very famous and particularly awesome sevillanas, duet with PDL + sanlucar from the saura movie on sevillanas!


I've seen the saura movie, but I didn't remember that - it is really amazing. Breathes new life into the form. Well, not so new life I guess cos the movie is quite old now.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 7 2007 23:54:00
 
zata

Posts: 659
Joined: Jul. 17 2003
 

When Kate's away, the mice will play... (in reply to Adam) 
Hi everyone, I'm on Kate's computer in Granada while she's on a day trip. She mentioned something about this sevillanas discussion...

Sevillanas is not a form of flamenco, this isn't even a controversial topic, although I think a lot of foreigners think of sevillanas as flamenco, probably because of the similar (though not identical) costumes, and the presence of a guitar. But fandangos!!! About two thirds of flamenco forms are fandangos, literally hundreds of styles grouped under basic categories such as malaguena, granaina, media granaina, fandango de Huelva, fandango de Lucena, fandango can'e de Alosno, de Encinasola, de Santiponce (tons more from that area), taranto, taranta, levantica, murciana, cartagenera, fandango de Granada, fandangos personales.... There do exist folkloric fandangos, but no one involved in flamenco is likely to come across them. Fandango is a very old form popular all over Spain since the times of Padre Antonio Soler (17th century??) who even wrote one.

And there is no such thing as "fandango grande", it's time to put that one permanently to bed.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 8 2007 12:23:15
 
Escribano

Posts: 6415
Joined: Jul. 6 2003
From: England, living in Italy

RE: When Kate's away, the mice will ... (in reply to zata) 
Thanks for the info Estela, take care of Kate's computer

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 8 2007 15:27:21
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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 8 2007 17:45:51
 
koella

Posts: 2194
Joined: Sep. 10 2005
From: holland

RE: What about a Sevilliana? (in reply to Zorro02) 
I love the "toques flamenco " book from Paco Pena.

Just ripped out the sevillanes pages. That filthy liar.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 8 2007 18:08:14
 
Zorro02

Posts: 151
Joined: Feb. 23 2007
 

RE: What about a Sevilliana? (in reply to koella) 
Hey Koella, you had better go through the rest of your flamenco library, because he is not the only one gulity of having the audacity to include a Sevillana in their student books
Owwf with his head and his and his.......

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 8 2007 19:22:03
 
Florian

Posts: 9282
Joined: Jul. 14 2003
From: Adelaide/Australia

RE: When Kate's away, the mice will ... (in reply to zata) 
quote:

Sevillanas is not a form of flamenco, this isn't even a controversial topic, although I think a lot of foreigners think of sevillanas as flamenco, probably because of the similar (though not identical) costumes, and the presence of a guitar


No its because its in 3 out of every 5 flamenco cds, solo compas, books, dvds that come out of Spain.

Or everywhere you look its included with all the other Palos as a flamenco form.
http://www.esflamenco.com/palos/enalegrias.html

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 8 2007 19:30:44
 
veet

 

Posts: 231
Joined: Nov. 29 2004
From: L.A.

RE: When Kate's away, the mice will ... (in reply to zata) 
Hi, Estela, hace tiempo.

What about the term "fandanguillo?" I've heard that used in the same context as what some call a fandango grande, i.e. a fandango sung libre, without the driving rhythm of say a F. de Huelva. I've always been overwhelmed by all the fandangos, I hear numbers like 52 different varieties.
What's a good example of Santiponce, I haven't heard that term before.

abrazos-
Vytas
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 8 2007 19:47:29
 
Arash

Posts: 4495
Joined: Aug. 9 2006
From: Iran (living in Germany)

RE: What about a Sevilliana? (in reply to Zorro02) 
What about Rumba?...Is Rumba Flamenco?

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 8 2007 19:47:32
 
koella

Posts: 2194
Joined: Sep. 10 2005
From: holland

RE: What about a Sevilliana? (in reply to Zorro02) 
quote:

ORIGINAL: Zorro02

Hey Koella, you had better go through the rest of your flamenco library, because he is not the only one gulity of having the audacity to include a Sevillana in their student books
Owwf with his head and his and his.......


Yes, I'm aware of that.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 8 2007 20:06:13
 
Kate

Posts: 1827
Joined: Jul. 8 2003
From: Living in Granada, Andalucía

RE: When Kate's away, the mice will ... (in reply to Florian) 
Just got back from a lovely day in Almería, my brother in law even went in the sea which was lovely and warm. Ah bliss.

Florian if you read the esflamenco page on Sevillanos it says
"(De Sevilla). Canción folklórica procedente de la seguidilla manchega que se ha ido aflamencando. Nace para acompañar al baile que se interpreta en pareja en series de cuatro sevillanas. Es el baile andaluz que más se ha popularizado y, hoy en día, se bailan incluso en las discotecas. Antes se bailaba en los patios o casas de vecinos, también llamados corrales, y siempre se han bailado en las romerías y ferias de Andalucía. "

No mention of it being flamenco, just 'aflamencando'. I think that makes it quite clear. It was not included in Carlos Saura's film as it is simply not considered flamenco, he dedicated a totally seperate film for this music style. In my ( very good) guide to Andalusian Flamenco it is categorised as a folk song, structured on the copla. No-one says the copla is flamenco. Perhaps you just have to be here to see sevillanas in context, ie the Romería, the fería, weddings and discos but never ever in a Flamenco Peña.

Arash....... Rumba is also derived from folk music, and was adapted to the tango.

I'll let Estela get back on and write some more if she has time before the show tonight and if she is GOOD.

Kate

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 8 2007 20:11:18
 
Arash

Posts: 4495
Joined: Aug. 9 2006
From: Iran (living in Germany)

RE: What about a Sevilliana? (in reply to Zorro02) 
Ok...so everything which "tourists" like, is not flamenco
It pleases me

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 8 2007 20:24:36
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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 8 2007 20:43:45
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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 8 2007 20:50:56
 
Zorro02

Posts: 151
Joined: Feb. 23 2007
 

RE: When Kate's away, the mice will ... (in reply to Kate) 
quote:

Just got back from a lovely day in Almería, my brother in law even went in the sea which was lovely and warm. Ah bliss.


Ahh sounds lovely, this time tomorrow I will be in Murcia.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 8 2007 21:27:33
 
Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: When Kate's away, the mice will ... (in reply to zata) 
Hi Estela!!
So nice to hear from you again guapa!

Whether or not Sevillanas can be "classified" as Flamenco or not, it still has all the ingredients in it (especially in the Phrygian mode) to convey the same sort of feeling when done tastefully.
In Sauras "Sevillanas.... even Camaron and Tomatito performed the style.

I'm sure you don't see a lot of Zapateado in peñas either?

Maybe not?

cheers,

Ron

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 8 2007 21:49:05
 
Arash

Posts: 4495
Joined: Aug. 9 2006
From: Iran (living in Germany)

RE: What about a Sevilliana? (in reply to Zorro02) 
Now, joking aside...

Jason McGuire has some Sevillanas lessons on his website.
So it is interesting for me to read that Sevillanas is not really flamenco.

The description of one the intermediate level lessons (for me Expert level )

A sevillanas in A minor for beginning/intermediate players. I have had many beginning students learn this over the years so I know that it is possible for beginners. Take your time you can get it. Once you do, go get a gig at a Sevillanas dance class. Sevillanas is how I got my start accompanying dance. When I first moved to New York from Texas, one of my first gigs was playing solo guitar Sevillanas at a cafe in "The Village" once a week. $25, a sandwich and a beer. Those were the days.


I was going to learn it and practice it, but now ......i dont want to learn folk music

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 8 2007 22:29:37
 
Zorro02

Posts: 151
Joined: Feb. 23 2007
 

RE: What about a Sevilliana? (in reply to Arash) 
Arash.

I do hope that you continue to pursue your Sevillana as, I am sure that you have provided in your playing, a truely inspirng atmosphere for your dancers.

I think Ron is correct in highlighting that if the basic ingredients of flamenco are present, then why should we eliminate the Sevillana from our discussions?

Can we agree that, although not truely flamenco, Sevillana has and continues to be, a major inspiration to us all?

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 8 2007 23:40:11
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