Foro Flamenco


Posts Since Last Visit | Advanced Search | Home | Register | Login

Today's Posts | Inbox | Profile | Our Rules | Contact Admin | Log Out



Welcome to one of the most active flamenco sites on the Internet. Guests can read most posts but if you want to participate click here to register.

This site is dedicated to the memory of Paco de Lucía, Ron Mitchell, Guy Williams, Linda Elvira, Philip John Lee, Craig Eros, Ben Woods, David Serva and Tom Blackshear who went ahead of us.

We receive 12,200 visitors a month from 200 countries and 1.7 million page impressions a year. To advertise on this site please contact us.





best negra flamenca?   You are logged in as Guest
Users viewing this topic: none
  Printable Version
All Forums >>Discussions >>Lutherie >> Page: [1]
Login
Message<< Newer Topic  Older Topic >>
 
glenn sharp

 

Posts: 13
Joined: Oct. 27 2005
 

best negra flamenca? 
looking for recommendations for a professional flamenco negra. (something on the level of the conde hermanos af25). your opinions will be very useful. and YES, I know this is ultimately my own choice! and YES it is definitely a negra I need.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Nov. 13 2007 13:24:01
 
cavaliotis

 

Posts: 94
Joined: Dec. 12 2005
From: GREECE

RE: best negra flamenca? (in reply to glenn sharp) 
You should seriously consider an Anders Eliasson...
I own two a negra and a blanca and two friends of mine here in Greece own negras...
All four instruments are amazing and I strongly recomend them
they can stand beside a conde and be compared... I have met people with Condes, Pedro de Miguel, Bellidos and personaly I prefer the Anders...
The price is also something to consider... I find it more appropriate to invest in an instrument truly hand made by a luthier than in an instrument that has been supervised throughout the process by the luthier and built in most cases these days by aprenticies...

But again this is only my opinion

you can here sound of samples at Anders's website and in Kostas Tsoumanis myspace site (cant remember the url)

Best regards
George Cavaliotis
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Nov. 13 2007 15:03:07
 
n85ae

 

Posts: 877
Joined: Sep. 7 2006
 

RE: best negra flamenca? (in reply to glenn sharp) 
Hi -

I bought a Pedro De Miguel 27F from Tom at LaFalseta and love it. I have not
played any others, so I really can't compare it. I think it sounds exactly like
the Negra that Gerardo Nunez plays on the Encuentro DVD.

Jeff
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Nov. 13 2007 15:49:48
 
Doog

Posts: 59
Joined: Sep. 17 2007
From: Tennessee

RE: best negra flamenca? (in reply to glenn sharp) 
quote:

ORIGINAL: glenn sharp

looking for recommendations for a professional flamenco negra. (something on the level of the conde hermanos af25). your opinions will be very useful. and YES, I know this is ultimately my own choice! and YES it is definitely a negra I need.


Here is an Andres Marvi like Gerardo Nunez plays. I have played one of these ... a powerful and beautifully balanced negra. I have also played Conde's and the Marvi outplays the Conde in every respect.

http://www.classicguitar.com/f-05Marvi.html

Doog
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Nov. 13 2007 22:51:43
 
mkhn

 

Posts: 37
Joined: Mar. 2 2006
 

RE: best negra flamenca? (in reply to glenn sharp) 
Hi Glenn,

I would highly, highly recommend an Aaron Green negra. He's a luthier that is located in Massachusetts and has been building some really great guitars. I just received a negra from him a couple of months ago and this guitar really sings.

Its made of brazilian rosewood with a spruce top. The craftsmanship is immaculate and the french polish finish is top notch. The brazilian rosewood is so dark it has a purple hue to it.

I have two Conde's; one from the Gravina 7 shop and one from the Felipe V shop. Both are very good guitars, but next to the AG, there is no comparison. Granted they are both blanca's, but one can really feel the volume that the AG has over the Condes.

I also have a Yamaha CG171SF that's my "roadie" guitar or the one I bang on when sitting on the sofa. Compared to the two Conde's, the Yamaha has a smaller body and doesn't have the power compared to those two. The AG negra has a very similiar body size to the Yamaha, but its a CANNON. The two Condes cant keep up with this smaller bodied negra which I think is more comfortable to sling your arm over. Im 5' 10" so I'm not small, but the AG just feels more comfortable to hold.

Im at work now and dont have the pics with me to post, but I'll post some pics of her for your reference. Do yourself a favor and just give Aaron a call and he'd be more than happy to talk shop. You can do a search on Aaaron Green and you'll see that other people's reviews will be consistent with mine.

http://www.aarongreenguitars.com/

Cheers and good luck,

Mike
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Nov. 14 2007 21:01:40
 
TANúñez

Posts: 2559
Joined: Jul. 10 2003
From: TEXAS

RE: best negra flamenca? (in reply to glenn sharp) 
The best thing to do is to try several if possible. I have played many great Conde negras and some not so great. I did like the one Marvi I played but not as much as the Conde negra.

Sanchis Lopez make very nice negras for the money. I played a Bernal negra that was outstanding but later played another one, same model that was not as nice as the first. There is just too many variables with each individual guitar so it's best to try several.

If you interested in something on the level of a Conde AF25, then why not go after a Conde AF25? There are many great guitars in this price range but if your after the Conde sound, your not going to get that from any other maker.

If your in the US, you may want to look into the negras by Shelton-Farretta, Lester DeVoe and Aaron Green. They are all great but different from each other.

_____________________________

Tom Núñez
www.instagram.com/tanunezguitars
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Nov. 14 2007 21:21:47
 
Ricardo

Posts: 14822
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: best negra flamenca? (in reply to glenn sharp) 
You said it yourself, Conde A25. Not sure what you are after that would be different, unless price is the problem? Look for used.

Lot of people complain and let what they think are "bad" Conde's go for 4K. IMO a lot of those are not so bad after all (used ones I have tried), it is just that owners are easily convinced by loud boomy "cannons" (Nothing against Aaron Green, I have not played that guitar but that is a common term for guitars that are bassy and loud) and give up quick on Condes, which are usually not bass heavy. IMO, the thing that is important for a guitar sound is not volume so much as clearity, and having a strong mid range to give body to trebles and rhythmic strumming. But it is just taste in the end. I remember Anders agreeing with me about importance of mid tones, and notice several members that own his guitars say they stand up to Condes.

Ricardo
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Nov. 14 2007 23:46:08
 
Doog

Posts: 59
Joined: Sep. 17 2007
From: Tennessee

RE: best negra flamenca? (in reply to TANúñez) 
quote:

ORIGINAL: TANúñez

If your in the US, you may want to look into the negras by Shelton-Farretta, Lester DeVoe and Aaron Green. They are all great but different from each other.


I have a 2007 DeVoe negra that is one of my most prized guitars. As you may know, Lester's guitars are based on the 1924 Santos Hernandez [with various personal modifications].

It is an extremely comfortable guitar to hold and play [excellent playability] and I find that its voice is very pleasing.

Doog
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Nov. 15 2007 4:01:51
 
Anders Eliasson

Posts: 5780
Joined: Oct. 18 2006
 

RE: best negra flamenca? (in reply to glenn sharp) 
quote:

IMO, the thing that is important for a guitar sound is not volume so much as clearity, and having a strong mid range to give body to trebles and rhythmic strumming.


Thats a good advice

_____________________________

Blog: http://news-from-the-workshop.blogspot.com/
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Nov. 15 2007 9:29:03
 
Francisco

Posts: 879
Joined: Jun. 13 2005
From: SW USA

RE: best negra flamenca? (in reply to glenn sharp) 
quote:

You can do a search on Aaaron Green and you'll see that other people's reviews will be consistent with mine.

Here's Ramin's review of his AG blanca. He even recorded and uploaded a few samples.

quote:

Im at work now and dont have the pics with me to post, but I'll post some pics of her for your reference.

This would be great.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Nov. 15 2007 15:03:52
 
aarongreen

 

Posts: 367
Joined: Jan. 16 2004
 

RE: best negra flamenca? (in reply to Ricardo) 
Hi Ricardo,
It is rather hard to talk about guitars without using common terms which mean different things to different people. I don't think of bassy and boomy guitars when I hear the word "cannon", I just think it's a loud guitar. That in an of itself doesn't really say much as a loud guitar doesn't mean it's a good guitar, it just means it's got more horsepower.

In my mind the ultimate guitar is not defined by volume but by it's balance. In that I mean it does everything very well, it has great clarity, great projection, great trebles, great basses, great midrange, great tonal flexibility while still being even as you go up the fretboard and of course has great volume. The notes themselves should have strong fundamentals with balanced overtones, the guitar should speak very quickly with little effort and not break up when pushed.

No small trick but you only hit as high as you aim. To me what I have descibed here is not a great flamenco guitar or a great classical guitar, it's just a great guitar.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Nov. 15 2007 15:21:59
 
TANúñez

Posts: 2559
Joined: Jul. 10 2003
From: TEXAS

RE: best negra flamenca? (in reply to Doog) 
quote:

Lester's guitars are based on the 1924 Santos Hernandez [with various personal modifications].


Doog,

Back when Lester started out, his guitars were based on the 24' Santos but now are more influenced by a Torres design. Unless he went back to his old method.

_____________________________

Tom Núñez
www.instagram.com/tanunezguitars
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Nov. 15 2007 15:23:21
 
mkhn

 

Posts: 37
Joined: Mar. 2 2006
 

RE: best negra flamenca? (in reply to glenn sharp) 
Glenn,

In the end, as Tom Nunez suggested, trying several guitars is your best bet, but not all of these are readily available so you'll have to gather as much feedback as possible. I highly recommend guitars made by AG. There have been a lot of great things said about the full dynamic range of Lester Devoe's guitars and it's ease of playability. I have had several opportunities to play them and I am also on his wait list, so I will also be excited to acquire one of them. In my opinion, the AG negra that I have is absolutely amazing and my enthusiasm is a reflection of how happy I am with it.
My previous feedback may have been single dimensional in that I described it as being a "cannon", but what I meant to say is that its got tremendous volume WITHOUT giving away the clarity and crispness in its trebles, the tautness in the basses and the abundant tone colors. I agree that volume at the expense of tonal range is worthless.
Anyways, I dont want to sound like an AG commercial and Im not knocking on my Condes as I do love them as well, but as a point of feedback to you, I didnt have any experience in AG previously other than the opinion of others and Im very very pleased that my negra is so incredible sounding and easy to play after having received it.
I have an A26 Conde blanca and have had many years of fun with it. You'll be sure to have the same with and AF25.

Cheers,

Mike
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Nov. 15 2007 15:33:08
 
tk

Posts: 524
Joined: Jun. 15 2006
 

RE: best negra flamenca? (in reply to glenn sharp) 
Go with a Manuel Reyes (Padre) Negra

Seriously though, if you are ready to pay between $6K-$7K, you can get a AG or Lester Devoe. 2 very different guitars but both great.

TK
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Nov. 15 2007 16:20:35

Tomás Jiménez

 

Posts: 235
Joined: Feb. 24 2006
 

RE: best negra flamenca? (in reply to glenn sharp) 
Hola Glen,

My advice is probably very obvious and simple but nevertheless I hope helpful.

If possible it is very much best to play a guitar before buying. I mean to say that if you buy without playing first so many things can be wrong and indeed it does so happen.

We can all try to describe a sound and a feel in the guitar by words but of course my words may not mean to you what I think they mean.
For example I can tell you that I have a Gerundino with very much quejido, almost like an animal. I know what I think I said but I don’t know if it is meaningful to you. Also I may say that the strings are very comfortable in my hand, always in the correct place, they never run away from me and they never fight with me. Again I know what I want to say but I’m not sure if it helps you.

One guitar student I know bought a guitar because a recommendation. He bought it to be sent to him from one country to another. He said he liked it very much. The situation was successful he was not disappointed.
He came to a concert of mine and asked to see my guitar in the dressing room with no special acoustics. In England with a lot of carpet and think curtains etc.
He said that obviously my guitar was even better but of course I would have paid more than he did. I told him what I paid and he said it was about the same as did he. Then he asked me but where did I get it and I said about 1.5 hours drive from here.

So, he still had and has a guitar that he is very happy with so everything is fine but he liked my one better in every sense and could have had it instead.

So I mean to say all of the guitarreros that you see discussed here all of them is good, every one makes a good flamenco guitar and negra yes of course but the question will be if you like it, if it is the correct guitar for you and this I think you cannot know from what anyone can say to you.
You must play it and you must know.

Saludos cordiales,

Tomás

_____________________________
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Nov. 15 2007 22:07:08
 
Doog

Posts: 59
Joined: Sep. 17 2007
From: Tennessee

RE: best negra flamenca? (in reply to TANúñez) 
quote:

ORIGINAL: TANúñez

quote:

Lester's guitars are based on the 1924 Santos Hernandez [with various personal modifications].


Doog,

Back when Lester started out, his guitars were based on the 24' Santos but now are more influenced by a Torres design. Unless he went back to his old method.



Thanks, Tom, that is interesting information. I know for sure that I really enjoy playing Lester's negra. It is so comfortable and easy to play and it has a great voice. I have several guitars and his is one of my favorites. I expect to get one of his blanca's before year's end.

Doog
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Nov. 16 2007 23:57:14
Page:   [1]
All Forums >>Discussions >>Lutherie >> Page: [1]
Jump to:

New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts


Forum Software powered by ASP Playground Advanced Edition 2.0.5
Copyright © 2000 - 2003 ASPPlayground.NET

0.0625 secs.