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beware of gypsies and skinheads
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ricecrackerphoto
Posts: 265
Joined: Feb. 5 2006
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beware of gypsies and skinheads
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so this moroccan guy i met in prague, when he found out what neighborhood i was going to that night for this bar, told me "to watch out for the skinheads and gypsies". thought it was sad and funny, but i did run into a boatload of skins that night who weren't happy with me at all. my question is this: are most nations in europe so racist against gypsies? i've only been traveling in europe the past few years but i've received warnings in france, italy, hungary and austria about gypsies, like "put your wallet in your front pocket cause there are gypsies about", or "don't go there at night, place is full of gypsies" kind of stuff. and man, they really hate gypsies in florence! is it like this everywhere? i'm assuming its not so in spain. or is it? that crap would fly only in the dumbest, most intolerant parts of the US. but i can't imagine someone saying to me "watch out for the blacks" or "that place is full of mexicans so be careful". just curious as its all new to me. skinheads however are everywhere and wear such lovely boots. doug
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Date Nov. 9 2007 8:03:31
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Florian
Posts: 9282
Joined: Jul. 14 2003
From: Adelaide/Australia
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RE: beware of gypsies and skinheads (in reply to ricecrackerphoto)
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They no more or less racist than anywhere else, just havent been trained or place as much importance on sounding politicaly correct, they are more direct. All gipsyes are not criminals but they are also not all Flamenco Stars, they will survive however they can, they have different values. I had many gipsyes friends in Romania growing up, i didnt and still dont see them as good or bad, i just see them as normal. Some will steal your wallet, some will feel sorry for you and help you, it is silly to assume that everyone is the same. At the same time this people that were telling you this things were doing it because they were looking out for you soo i dont know... the world is not as perfect as we would like to belive, and everything is not so black and white. right or wrong all the time when you look at the big picture. under the circumstances since they lived there and were looking out for you, i guess mibe they had theyr reasons for telling you this. I dont know I wish i had a simpler black and white explonation just cause someone says it more politicaly acceptable or dosent say it because of fear of how they will be precieved by others dosent make it any less racist if they are thinking it. I gues we all have a longher way to go before we can pretend like we are perfect as long as we all accept eachothers imprefections as humans, silly missconceptions, stereotypical mistakes, unawareness and not get so hang up on what we are thats close enough. u need a sense of houmor, your race or nationality is not you, the person you are is you.
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Date Nov. 9 2007 8:51:34
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andresito
Posts: 377
Joined: Feb. 20 2007
From: New Holland
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RE: beware of gypsies and skinheads (in reply to Florian)
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Well said, Flo. I'll be expecting a lot from your next post! I have a friend in Spain who gave me the impression that the Spanish think of gypsies as a kind of sketchy noveau-riche with holes in their shoes, mercedes and pockets full of crumpled $50 bills... Don't take this as anti-semitic but Jews tend to promote themselves as persecuted when not everyone knows there were also many, many gypsies sent to concentration camps, and they continue to be persecuted, treated like garbage or just ignored in most countries. I think the best music comes out of the ****tiest social situations, e.g. blues, jazz, reggae, flamenco, andean music, gypsy jazz... the music of slaves, the colonised, and outcasts. There's a depth of feeling and expression in the music that only comes from a struggle to survive and a fatalistic appreciation of the human condition. I can't explain this in words as well as Latcho Drom does in music and images. We despise in others that which we most fear in ourselves...
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Date Nov. 9 2007 9:52:20
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Kate
Posts: 1827
Joined: Jul. 8 2003
From: Living in Granada, Andalucía
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RE: beware of gypsies and skinheads (in reply to ricecrackerphoto)
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When I first came to Granada I was told by a fellow student that the one area I should never go was the Gypsy barrio of Almanjayar. He said I should not even drive through it in case my car broke down as it was so dangerous. Shortly afterwards I met the kids from Almanjayar who invited us to their neighbourhood for a gig. We went in the car and guess what........it broke down. We pushed it to the side of the road and went to the party, afterwards we had to get a taxi home, not so easy as taxis just dont cruise round Almanjayar. Last week there was a bus strike as the drivers are refusing to go to that part of town. Anyway the following day we went back to fix the car and found it just as we had left it. We became regular visitors though it always amazed me how the kids would know we were coming like there was a bush telegraph that sent out smoke signals or something, 'guirris in a car heading your way'. One scary moment happened when I was there fetching some tools from a lock up with one of the group, we stepped out onto the street and there were some young lads with rifles pointed at us. "Just walk slowly and dont look back" was my friend's advice which is what I did, not easy with a gun pointed at you. So I guess I am saying that people who say beware can be right but maybe not for the right reasons, some areas are dangerous, though it probably has more to do with poverty and drugs than specific race. I would say it was no different from telling tourists in the States not to just wander into the housing projects or crack dens in the Hood. Without a doubt the guy who told me not to go Almanjayar was looking out for me, but he was also prejudice against the Gypsies, and I found working with Anaquerando ( a Gypsy Association which aims to help integration) that sadly this sort of ignorant prejudice is common. When we rebuilt our old house here we employed a load of friends who happened to be Gitanos from Almanjayar to work with us, the reaction of the builder we had contracted was that we woud get into a whole heap of trouble and be ripped off big time. However the reality was that we cut his fee for the work in half as he was charging us double what he actually paid his guys. So to my mind it was him trying to rip us off and using this 'fear' of Gypsies to convince us. There is still a long way to go to tackle this prejudice. One evening I was visiting a Gypsy family when their 17 year old daughter was doing her homework. I was shocked to see it was simply colouring in, and when I questioned this at the Gypsy Association I was told quite blatantly by the people who worked there that that was all that would be expected from a Gypsy girl. Without doubt there is an inequality here amongst the poor Gitanos. However many are well integrated and far removed from the poor Gitanos of the Poligonos. Also not all Gypsies in Europe are of the same 'tribe' and can be prejudiced against each other. The Cale generally do not like the Roma who beg, and have a total dislike of the 'Hungaros' who travel around with goats that sit on, actually they are tied on to, poles, though of course not all Roma beg and not all Hungaros stick goats on poles. In the UK they changed the laws and no longer recognise the Gypsy as a race but class it as a lifestyle, casually getting round any accusation of racial prejudice, as anyone can register themselves as a 'Traveller'. A recent case was an English MP whose village had a carnival where they pulled a caravan with effigies of Gypsies inside it, including children, through the streets and which they then set on fire. The MP who was involved registered himself as a 'traveller' and then claimed he could not be prejudice. It was a total disgrace but still the case against him for inciting racial hatred was dropped by the Commission for Racial Equality. Years ago I worked with the Anti racist campaign in London and was involved with a community of Romanichal who had bought and settled their own land in East London. I was saddened recently to find that these families are to be forcibly removed and their land taken from them to make way for the Olympics. As I was writing this there was a knock at my door and there stood an old Gitano, stick in hand, hat on head which he removed respectfully. He told me he had come to find the ' tecnico sonido' who worked with Gitanos. I had to ask him to return later as Harold is out so dont know what he wants yet but it made me think of one more thing before I finish this post. Which is that when we first came here and before we had our own studio we went to several recording studios in Granada and all of them said quite openly that they would not work with Gitanos. Its a crying shame but it is something that has to be tackled together, Gypsies and Payos alike. Kate
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Date Nov. 9 2007 10:47:14
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Ricardo
Posts: 14873
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC
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RE: beware of gypsies and skinheads (in reply to HemeolaMan)
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quote:
ricardo, i mean chicago. lol if the cops hear a white middle class irish kid got killed in the projects, you can bet everyone around would be taken in for questioning lol. That is better, specifics. The reason for THAT is because the cops there are on the payroll of the Irish mob, if not family members. So, see what happens if an Italian kid gets it! Sort of funny, but not really.... I have so many ugly real life examples of people close to me that I don't feel like sharing, but my basic feeling is that it does not matter what your race is, if you are alone and encounter a "gang" of another type, and they have a certain mentality at that moment, you are introuble. And if you live, there is very little that can be done unless you have witnesses and such, in other words, another "gang" on YOUR side. So avoiding these situations is smart, regardless of your race.
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Date Nov. 13 2007 7:38:33
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Kate
Posts: 1827
Joined: Jul. 8 2003
From: Living in Granada, Andalucía
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RE: beware of gypsies and skinheads (in reply to ricecrackerphoto)
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Last night BBC world were looking at the Roma in Europe. They reported that it was Europes' largest ethnic minority, but then they did not break it down into Roma, Sinti, Manouche, Cale etc or whether these people were immigrants or nationals or in which specific countries they were. There are currently court cases going on in Cheqslavakia ( sorry bad spelling) where Roma parents are demanding that their children be given the same education as others, currently Roma children are put in special needs schools regardless of their ability. The report also said that Italy is repatriating over 200,000 immigrant Roma back to Romania. The reports were accompanied by typical footage of Roma begging, no mention of those that have businesses or are professionals etc. Apparantly there are over 1,000,000 Roma in the States, there is a book called "The Hidden Americans" about this. Here's some interesting articles by Ian Hancock http://www.tsha.utexas.edu/handbook/online/articles/RR/pxrfh.html http://www.geocities.com/~Patrin/antigypsyism.htm Kate
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Date Nov. 14 2007 16:36:10
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