"He's more flamenco than me!"

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John O.

Posts: 1723
Joined: Dec. 16 2005
From: Seeheim-Jugenheim, Germany

"He's more flamenco than me!"

Just wanted some of your opinions and experiences on this subject. I've personally never been told I "wasn't flamenco" or anything of the sort although I have heard it enough about others in my area. Dancers who hate each other, guitarists fighting with each other and dancers who aren't "for real". Why the aggression and the negative competition? Who's trying to prove what to whom, and non-Spaniards outside of Spain at that?

I don't know, this is probably existant in all music scenes. Again I haven't been personally effected ... YET ... it's just frustrating sometimes to know I'm part of such a difficult scene here - seems there's drama all over the place...

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 6 2007 15:04:55

Guest

RE: "He's more flamenco than me... (in reply to John O.)

yes its a common thing in any artform...and unfortunate. Its insecurities, and some people just have sticks so far up their ass they can never get it out. if someone is bagging others regually and bitching to you about others, theres a good chance they bag YOU to the same people they were bagging and bitching about. f*ck them

(scuse the french)

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 6 2007 15:18:19

val

Posts: 800
Joined: Apr. 4 2007

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 6 2007 15:42:39

Florian

Posts: 9282
Joined: Jul. 14 2003
From: Adelaide/Australia

RE: "He's more flamenco than me... (in reply to val)

quote:

Just wanted some of your opinions and experiences on this subject. I've personally never been told I "wasn't flamenco"

not to your face anyway

I dont know what my feelings are on the subject , it dosent matter, its normal, u need thick skin and just do your thing belive in yourself and be stubborn, there will always be others that dont like what u do, but u cant worry about those people, as long as you like what you do... even if u are wrong... better to be wrong on your terms then to be right on some terms you dont even fully understand but seems like the more "flamenco" thing to do.

remember even people like Paco and Vicente got called not flamenco at one time or another.

its not just in flamenco, its in everything but because the scene is smaller , it just seems like it happens more.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 6 2007 16:11:01

Georg

Posts: 405
Joined: Feb. 5 2006
From: Germany

RE: "He's more flamenco than me... (in reply to John O.)

I think that it is envy.

I've even experienced that I've always liked it more when I played where the people didn't know me. People from the hometown don't think it's anything special, so they don't pay attention.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 6 2007 16:18:26

NormanKliman

Posts: 1143
Joined: Sep. 1 2007

RE: "He's more flamenco than me... (in reply to John O.) 1 votes

Hi John O:

Maybe these people are still young and immature?

From what I've observed of the flamenco culture, I'd say that the general tendency is to avoid badmouthing anyone and, in general terms, to stay focused on feeling happy when you're around others. Why bring that kind of trash to the party?

But it's a famously different story outside of Spain.

In any case, the world over, when someone is treated cruelly, it's usually easier for them to pass on the same treatment to someone else. Courage and generosity go hand in hand. As Dominic mentioned, it has a lot to do with insecurity.

It's hard to define what is and isn't "real flamenco" but I'd say that one defining characteristic is widespread aversion to bitching and moaning in general and to character assasination in particular.

Norman
http://www.ctv.es/guitar/

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 6 2007 16:44:08

buleria

Posts: 88
Joined: Jan. 6 2005

RE: "He's more flamenco than me... (in reply to John O.)

It's not always so different outside of Spain because I've seen and heard about it there too! As for dancers 'hating each other' - come on - put a load of women in front of a mirror and what do you expect!!!

Karenanne

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 6 2007 21:55:42

Ailsa

Posts: 2277
Joined: Apr. 17 2007
From: South East England

RE: "He's more flamenco than me... (in reply to buleria)

quote:

ORIGINAL: buleria
As for dancers 'hating each other'

Actually I've heard some guitarists being far from polite!

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 6 2007 22:30:18

Florian

Posts: 9282
Joined: Jul. 14 2003
From: Adelaide/Australia

RE: "He's more flamenco than me... (in reply to Ailsa)

quote:

come on - put a load of women in front of a mirror and what do you expect!!! Karenanne

LOL

quote:

Actually I've heard some guitarists being far from polite!

lol, one of the dancers that just got back was telling me about this guy in her classes that was so arrogant, and used to scream out ' OMG, THATS OUT OF COMPAS AGAIN !"
but then she got to know him a litlle more and realised it wasent arrogance, was just the way he communicated, i mean he was serious, they might have been out of compas and he did want to point it out but was doing it kind of jokingly kind of giving them sh*t, rather then look down on them way.

So i gues that aspect of it was lost in translation.

lately in the advanced class i find it harder and harder to keep quiet if i know something is out of compas (sounds like nails on a blackboard) i go insaine if i dont say something, and u can spend about 10 minutes on what is the most polite way to say it, but by then u cant remember where it was that they did go out.
Its not something that happens alot but it does happen sometimes with new choreography. Its understandable dancers have alot to remember, feet, arms etc.

lucky the people i work with know what i am like, and i know what they are like ( we are all about the same age and same sense of houmor) so we dont have to pussy foot around, just say what we need to say , fix it and move on.

its not all one way lol, many times they stop me when i try out a new falseta or something "ultra modern

" in the dance , and they say " Thats Lovley... dont do it again"

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 6 2007 22:59:43

val

Posts: 800
Joined: Apr. 4 2007

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 6 2007 23:47:34

val

Posts: 800
Joined: Apr. 4 2007

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Post has been moved to the Recycle Bin at Nov. 8 2010 18:31:24

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 6 2007 23:50:23

gato

Posts: 322
Joined: Jun. 9 2007

RE: "He's more flamenco than me... (in reply to John O.)

Like Dominic said ' it's a common thing in any artform.' But the arts is also about passion, vision, self expression, and a lot of hard honest work. I think all that is what goes on internally, and things like competition are more external, and we have to kind of choose where we're at. We're not really supposed to be mindful of all the egoists out there but the art of music making. It's simple....
Gary

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 7 2007 9:25:52

John O.

Posts: 1723
Joined: Dec. 16 2005
From: Seeheim-Jugenheim, Germany

RE: "He's more flamenco than me... (in reply to gato)

Yeah, there are a couple of people I know who do nothing but talk sh*t. I'm positive they do the same about me when I'm not around. Funny thing is, the sh*t-talkers don't get that everybody knows they're sh*t-talkers. Now, I'm not the smartest guy I know, but that does take quite a lot more ignorance than even I have

One thing I do understand is all the hard work that goes into playing and the urge to show people how good I am. Still, to go as far as one guitarist I heard about who screamed at a local group here in the area "Crap! It's all crap, what you're doing! You suck!" At least he was open

Took it a bit overboard, though...

quote:

better to be wrong on your terms then to be right on some terms you dont even fully understand but seems like the more "flamenco" thing to do

I love that

quote:

i go insaine if i dont say something, and u can spend about 10 minutes on what is the most polite way to say it, but by then u cant remember where it was that they did go out

During a show of course best to keep quiet, usually they know after the fact anyways. During rehearsal I never follow out of compás, though...

The instructor at the dance school I'm at encourages lots of falsetas to inspire the dancers. I needed to first get a feeling for what works at all for general technique practise and what not, certain syncopations and melodies sound cool but confuse the dancers. A lot of falsetas will follow the 3,6,8,10,12 in the rhythm but have interesting melodies, sometimes when I play one the first time I see the instructors eyes fix on me through the mirror until I come out again and she makes a face like "Ah, okay"...

I'm still slowly but surely working towards the goal of living from music with a part-time job. This year I'll be making the transition. It's tough keeping up technique and repertoire when 10 hours of my day are spent for my office job. I'm 30 and not getting any younger. For me it has more to do with being happy doing what I do than being "The Best", all talk of who's good or not, who said what about whom etc. are so meaningless it just makes me shrug. I just wanna play as often as possible, that's all

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 7 2007 10:20:23

Guest

RE: "He's more flamenco than me... (in reply to John O.)

quote:

quote:

better to be wrong on your terms then to be right on some terms you dont even fully understand but seems like the more "flamenco" thing to do
I love that

quote:

f*ck them (scuse the french)

what about that, did u like that?

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 7 2007 10:43:07

John O.

Posts: 1723
Joined: Dec. 16 2005
From: Seeheim-Jugenheim, Germany

RE: "He's more flamenco than me... (in reply to Guest)

Yeah, I like that too. The list of people I think that about gets longer and longer the older I get. By the time I'm 50 it should be "F*ck everyone".

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Don't sweat the petty things and don't pet the sweaty things

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 7 2007 10:51:00

Guest

RE: "He's more flamenco than me... (in reply to John O.)

its true mate, the older you get the less crap your willing to put up with.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 7 2007 10:56:53

John O.

Posts: 1723
Joined: Dec. 16 2005
From: Seeheim-Jugenheim, Germany

RE: "He's more flamenco than me... (in reply to Guest)

I'm loving it. I've been thinking of coming up with a poetic version of "F*ck everyone" and having it tattooed on my butt-cheek

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Don't sweat the petty things and don't pet the sweaty things

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 7 2007 10:58:59

henrym3483

Posts: 1584
Joined: Nov. 13 2005
From: Limerick,Ireland

RE: "He's more flamenco than me... (in reply to John O.)

Well john at least we dont have characters like emin boztepe, otherwise people would be getting snook up on and bashed from behind with a guitar!!!!

your flamenco is fake, you aint got the lineage

suerte

henry

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 7 2007 11:06:50

John O.

Posts: 1723
Joined: Dec. 16 2005
From: Seeheim-Jugenheim, Germany

RE: "He's more flamenco than me... (in reply to henrym3483)

When I hear people going at it verbally I sometimes do feel like I'm in a Bruce Lee movie...

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Don't sweat the petty things and don't pet the sweaty things

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 7 2007 12:21:40

gato

Posts: 322
Joined: Jun. 9 2007

RE: "He's more flamenco than me... (in reply to John O.)

Isn't it always true that the music speaks for itself? Alot of competitive talk is just static to me, so I don't care. If you want to talk about the music talk about the music. Competitive talk is on another level. Someone who is amazing and talented is worth mentioning, and talking about though. But diplomacy, is necessary in the arts, as I have said before. We all want to further the art before we further ourselves, and that is what is not happening in the psychotic world of competition and back stabbing. It's reaching the audience that is a kind of positive energy that takes a kind of team work among musicians, and if it isn't there there is usually little interest in the music by the audience.
Gary

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 7 2007 23:10:21

guitardode

Posts: 114
Joined: Jun. 29 2007

RE: "He's more flamenco than me... (in reply to John O.)

HI
Its best not to dwell on the more human aspects of the flamenco scene and just go along with the music- its what you express that matters most ,what others think really aint goonna matter too much longer term ,just look for the the positive vibes from it (even from the darkest taranta) and above all learn cause if you dont learn from each new bit of flamenco youv really lost a lot (not that youll think it matters that much maybe ) but youv had a experience thats now inside you- pain and pleasure jealousy etc are only human traits that fuel this wonderful way of life

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 8 2007 12:20:25