i am so pissed off from flamenco guitar prices

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Haithamflamenco

Posts: 927
Joined: Mar. 6 2007
From: Bahrain

i am so pissed off from flamenco gui...

hi amigos,

flamenco is great music,

great feelings, life style,palmas, dance, sing,

gitanos, payos, andalucia, torraros, fiestas, tablous, etc.....

all amazing,

just one thing i hate about flamenco,

the prices of the guitars!!!!!!!!!!!!!

its just too expensive, and its getting for day after day!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

its so painfull when u cant owned a flamenco guitar durning 9 years of playing,

just dreaming of it every day, looking at the photos, and squeezing your heart,

if i want a good guitar, i need to sell two cars, or get a big loan, or even sell my kidney!!!!!!!!

this is so sad about flamenco,

conde hermanos is an impossiple dream for me and alos for my friends we just knew inside our hearts that will never ever get a conde hermanos,

i dont know guys,

this is my hopless feelings,

so, what do u thing guys?!?!?!?!?!?!

_____________________________

Bahrain is my country and Andalucia is my dream

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 20 2007 8:57:56

Florian

Posts: 9282
Joined: Jul. 14 2003
From: Adelaide/Australia

RE: i am so pissed off from flamenco... (in reply to Haithamflamenco)

quote:

if i want a good guitar, i need to sell two cars, or get a big loan, or even sell my kidney!!!!!!!!

or get a job in a factory for a few months and save like yours truly.

be tankfull you are not a dancer, u know how much those dresses cost ? and they need more than just 2.

same with dance shoes etc, and yet outside spain in schools its always the guitarists , singer etc that get paid first and the most. I know greate dancers who get 40 bucs a gig, and many dont even get paid because of the competition.

once u got the guitar you got everything, all u need is new strings once a month or whatever... so i dont think we should complain just yet but count our lucky stars

Also compared to other instruments the prices are cheap, there is plenty of good resonably priced guitars around, a conde wont guarante you that its good.

ps. u can get a student conde like the one i am playing atm (its crap) for 1500

obviously there is top of the range guitars that are made for top of the game guitarists who can afford top of the range prices because they are pros.

nothing in life that its worth having ever just falls on your lap, most of the time u have to make sacrifices to get it.

and i say this with 40 bucs in my bank account atm

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 20 2007 9:13:17

Doitsujin

Posts: 5078
Joined: Apr. 10 2005

RE: i am so pissed off from flamenco... (in reply to Haithamflamenco)

To the hedline,... Im also pissed of these crazy prizes. well.. I think very good flamenco guitars are unique and really a piece of art. But these prices are loco.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 20 2007 9:58:46

Zorro02

Posts: 151
Joined: Feb. 23 2007

RE: i am so pissed off from flamenco... (in reply to Haithamflamenco)

I dont agree! Good flamenco guitars are relatively better value than other instruments, try buying a quality concert level violin, then you will be really pissed off.
I believe that it is more difficult to locate a quality guitar. I have tried many and quite often you will have to travel great distance to even try one.
We all have to make sacrifices to get what we really want, so perhaps one of your cars will have to go and then save or buy one interest free!
One final point. think of the materials, time, effort and craftmanship that goes into building a quality guitar. I guess for 2000 USD 1000 GBP or 1500EUR you could obtain a fair level flamenco guitar. Very good value in my opinion but you will have to go and search. It took me nearly a year to find the guitar I reallly love play

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 20 2007 10:14:51

Jim Opfer

Posts: 1876
Joined: Jul. 19 2003
From: Glasgow, Scotland.

RE: i am so pissed off from flamenco... (in reply to Haithamflamenco)

Top line Conde guitars are a bit of a myth.
They are generally pretty average instruments although from time to time a good one crops up.
They are over priced and you should not worry yourself about having to have one.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 20 2007 10:17:46

Haithamflamenco

Posts: 927
Joined: Mar. 6 2007
From: Bahrain

RE: i am so pissed off from flamenco... (in reply to Haithamflamenco)

quote:

and i say this with 40 bucs in my bank account atm

oleee hahaha

_____________________________

Bahrain is my country and Andalucia is my dream

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 20 2007 10:18:55

XXX

Posts: 4400
Joined: Apr. 14 2005

RE: i am so pissed off from flamenco... (in reply to Jim Opfer)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jim Opfer

Top line Conde guitars are a bit of a myth.
They are generally pretty average instruments although from time to time a good one crops up.
They are over priced and you should not worry yourself about having to have one.

I only tested 3 Conde Media Lunas, but there is one BIG advantage in Condes, besides the VERY good sound, and that is price stability!
You could buy a perfect flamenco guitar from a german luthier for 6000 Euros, but u wont be able to sell it for that price. Everything perfect: tone, playing, asthetics, wood, craftmanship... but u wont sell it.

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Фламенко

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 20 2007 10:29:03

buleria

Posts: 88
Joined: Jan. 6 2005

RE: i am so pissed off from flamenco... (in reply to Haithamflamenco)

Old gypsy proverb : (well, not really - I just made it up!)

"he who has the most expensive guitar is not guaranteed the most expressive flamenco"

Obviously I can see why you would want one but don't let it get you down. I know some great guitarists with quite average guitars - and have seen some fantastically battered ones passed around parties in Spain. Karenanne

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 20 2007 12:00:33

guitardode

Posts: 114
Joined: Jun. 29 2007

RE: i am so pissed off from flamenco... (in reply to Haithamflamenco)

HI MATE
DONT GET PUT OFF --TRY YOUR LOCAL MARKET/INTERNET / ITS AMAZING WHAT YOU CAN TURN UP -----GOING TO THE GUITARMAKERS IS TO0 EXPENSIVE FOR MOST FOLK EVEN IN SPAIN IV SEEN KIDS DOING SUPERB STUFF ON MEDIOCRE GUITARS EVEN STEEL STRUNG!!!

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GUITARDODE

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 20 2007 16:38:23

Per Hallgren

Posts: 241
Joined: Jul. 1 2006
From: Sweden

RE: i am so pissed off from flamenco... (in reply to Haithamflamenco)

So what would a fair price be for a nice luthier made guitar?

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 20 2007 16:42:59

guitardode

Posts: 114
Joined: Jun. 29 2007

RE: i am so pissed off from flamenco... (in reply to Haithamflamenco)

HI PER
YES A GOOD QUESTION !!! THIS WOULD DEPEND ON MATERIALS YOUR TIME ETC BUT WHERAS BEFORE YOU HAD CERTAIN CEILINGS IN PRICE ON CERTAIN MODELS WITH CERTAIN TOP LUTHIERS NOW EVEN WITH HELP IN CONSTRUCTING THE GUITAR THE WAITING LISTS ARE EXTREME AND PRICES TO MATCH -MANY GUITARS BOUGHT AS INVESTMENTS NEVER FEEL THE TOUCH OF A FINGER OR SWEAT HENCE THE FRUSTRATION OUT IN GUITARLAND THERE ARE HOWEVER CERTAIN LUTHIERS WHO ARE AFFORDABLE DELIBERATLY SO TO ENCOURAGE YOUNG AND OLD ALIKE IF ONLY THERE WERE MORE!!
COULD YOU BUILD A GOOD FLAMENCO CYPRESS FOR SAY 800 EUROS???

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GUITARDODE

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 20 2007 17:16:26

duende

Posts: 3053
Joined: Dec. 15 2003
From: Sweden

RE: i am so pissed off from flamenco... (in reply to Haithamflamenco)

i think Anders got good priess for the quality.
And from what i´ve seen Per, you are not into fantasy pricess either like 70.000-90.000 kr (swe)

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This is hard stuff!
Don't give up...
And don't make it a race.
Enjoy the ray of sunshine that comes with every new step in knowledge.

RON

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 20 2007 17:26:25

Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: i am so pissed off from flamenco... (in reply to Jim Opfer)

quote:

Top line Conde guitars are a bit of a myth.

Get an Anders IMO...Good price great sound.

cheers,

Ron

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A good guitar might be a good guitar
But it takes a woman to break your heart

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 20 2007 17:43:24

Per Hallgren

Posts: 241
Joined: Jul. 1 2006
From: Sweden

RE: i am so pissed off from flamenco... (in reply to duende)

Well Henrik, I still owe you a favour, remember? When you come I can show you my latest Negra. I concider the asked price fairly reasonable.

No, I can't build a guitar for €800, that is only possible for a factory or an artisan not treating every guitar as an individual. As every where else in life you get what you pay for and I hope no one is asking us luthiers to give up a reasonable price level (and I'm not talking about the "collectors price level"). As a serious musician you need a serious luthier and you don't get that without paying him decent payment for his serious work.

The problem with high prices start when the waiting list is growing and people start to invest in your instruments. That's true. But how can you handle that situation as an individual luthier. Give me a hint so I know when my time comes...

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 20 2007 19:04:42

n85ae

Posts: 877
Joined: Sep. 7 2006

RE: i am so pissed off from flamenco... (in reply to Haithamflamenco)

I think in the US the entry level price to a good accoustic guitar of any sort is
about $2000 and goes up from there. Luthier made, I think the current prices,
if somebody built the guitar for you (Per, Anders, Stephen, etc). I think paying
$3-5000 US is not out of line.

Imagine if Per makes 20 guitars a year at $3000 each, then he's grossing
$60,000. If you subtract his costs, he's not making big bucks by any means.
If he's paying for a shop, and a home, and supporting a family I'd be surprised
if he can afford a holiday ...

Jeff

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 20 2007 19:10:53

Per Hallgren

Posts: 241
Joined: Jul. 1 2006
From: Sweden

RE: i am so pissed off from flamenco... (in reply to n85ae)

Actually I had vacation the first two weeks in July. It was then I built the flamenco negra, off my two years waiting list of classical guitars....

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 20 2007 19:14:59

Crows

Posts: 89
Joined: Sep. 27 2004

RE: i am so pissed off from flamenco... (in reply to Ron.M)

Another 'see Anders' suggestion.
Nice man, nice guitars, nice price!!!
And I'm not even on commision

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 20 2007 20:39:11

Mark2

Posts: 1877
Joined: Jul. 12 2004
From: San Francisco

RE: i am so pissed off from flamenco... (in reply to Haithamflamenco)

A really good violin BOW cost more than most flamenco guitars.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 21 2007 0:46:57

Guest

RE: i am so pissed off from flamenco... (in reply to Crows)

dont go for the big names, especially condes. i tried a few $7000 media lunas and yes they had a nice action but i honestly didnt like them. i have played guitars at half that price that ran rings around them. go for an unknown maker if you want bang for your buck. even snachis lopez are starting to get really expensive because they have a name now.

from all these accolades on anders he sounds like a great option, but his guitars may well go up a fair bit to if demand grows (and rightfully so). the fumero i bought plays like a dream and ABSOLOUTLY sh*ts all over a medio luna (the ones i tried anyway). you can get one of these for around US$3400, and they play more like a guitar you would expect to pay at a very minimum US$5000...easy. If he was well known they would cost a lot more.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 21 2007 0:50:49

ToddK

Posts: 2961
Joined: Dec. 6 2004

RE: i am so pissed off from flamenco... (in reply to Haithamflamenco)

Im with Dominic. I really believe you can find a great guitar in
the range of 3000 to 3500.00 usd.

They're out there. It just takes time and patience to find them.

TK

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 21 2007 4:28:22

Haithamflamenco

Posts: 927
Joined: Mar. 6 2007
From: Bahrain

RE: i am so pissed off from flamenco... (in reply to Haithamflamenco)

I did alot of research about flamenco guitars since i joined this forum, ask alot of players, even try some of flamenco guitars while i was in uk and switzerland,

i belive the three best choices acoording to quality to price are:

1. Rafael romero
2.Valeriano Bernal
3.Hermanos sanchis lopez

but unfortunatly HermanosSanchis Lopez are keeping the prices higher every time!!!!

i belive the best thing after buying a new guitar is a second hand one,

there are alot of great second hand guitars,

currantly there are a Valeriano Bernal blanca "Pasion" model orignal price is 3800 euros selling price is 1000 euros only,

in this way i can see some hope,

oleee

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Bahrain is my country and Andalucia is my dream

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 22 2007 5:33:46