Strings, Tension, type, and whatever relates!

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Bogdan1980

Posts: 370
Joined: May 23 2007
From: Frederick, MD

Strings, Tension, type, and whatever...

So guys
I was looking for a nice post about strings and there is not much in terms of just general info. I've noticed some people talk about mixing different makes and tensions for bass and treble. Care to venture more into it?

What does tension do? Which tension is easier to play?
Which tension makes strings brake sooner? What tension is good for bass and which for treble?

What about those black and red nylons, is it just a color and does it actually change properties of the strings?
Strings also have those numbers associated with them on the package (is it diameter or something). What does that tell you?

Please enlighten me.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 7 2007 19:28:54

wiseguy493

Posts: 73
Joined: May 9 2007

RE: Strings, Tension, type, and what... (in reply to Bogdan1980)

I think strings are a pretty important issue =)

Without a doubt, probably the most popular flamenco string brand is Hannabach. They are good strings but not my favorites.

I use Savarez Alliance 540R which are medium tension and they are very good strings for about 40 playing hours. For my practice guitars, I use D'Addario Pro Arte EJ45 strings which have about twice the life for half the price and similar playing characteristics and feel. The D'addarios are a bit bassier because they have bronze coated silver wound bass strings. The Savarez are also the best trebles of all brands, in my opinion.

As for tensions, that depends on your technique and preference. I use normal tension for most my playing but I like to use high tension when I'm playing classical or mostly rasgueado accompaniment. Normal tensions I think are better for more of the intricate techniques like tremolo, ligado, etc. but this is a technique thing and my own preference. You should definitely try many types to find what you like.

If you have a long or short scale neck you may want to go with more or less tension to adjust for scale. That's something you should experiment with.

As for colored strings that's mostly just for appearance.

What is important about the strings tonally is the type of polymer used in the core. Any concert grade flamenco or classical strings will have a very high grade micro-polymer. Cheaper strings like the lower La Bellas lack this grade of polymer and it can be heard in their tone.

Some strings like the ones I listed above Savarez 540R and D'Adarrio EJ45 are just like model numbers used to define the set, not the diameter or tension. 540 is a model, R signifies the variation. They make 540 strings with normal tension, mixed tension, high tension, super high tension, nickel wound, silver wound, bronze wound so there are a lot of different letters that may go after the 540 number.

I hope that covers a few of your questions =)

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 8 2007 21:07:29

Bogdan1980

Posts: 370
Joined: May 23 2007
From: Frederick, MD

RE: Strings, Tension, type, and what... (in reply to Bogdan1980)

You definitely covered a lot.
I used to use mostly Savarez (don't recall which one), but I changed to D'Addario Pro Arte EJ45 recently and they seem to perform very well.
I used laBella once they broke in a week, I never buy them again. Hannabach is nice, but I mostly played classical for about a decade now. I reseved to normal tension because at times that I got something different I had a hard time tunining them right

.

Well does anyone know why some musicians use one kind of strings for treble and different for bass? Is it because some makers make better bass strings than trebles?

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 8 2007 21:36:53

Ricardo

Posts: 14828
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Strings, Tension, type, and what... (in reply to Bogdan1980)

The best strings for flamenco are La Bella 820B. Second best are Luthier. Third best are Savarez. The rest are all the same.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 9 2007 0:06:54

Anders Eliasson

Posts: 5780
Joined: Oct. 18 2006

RE: Strings, Tension, type, and what... (in reply to Bogdan1980)

Ricardo. I you tired of explaining strings???

There´s only one string I cant live without. That brown third string from Daddario J45C.... Its just so flamenco. Percussive and loud. Beside, it lasts some 500 hours or more. The rest... Well

1st and 2nd. Luthier 20 or Labella820B

basses. New ones are good ones. If I have to choose, I go for Luthier 20.

I prefer normal tension. Luthier20 are low normal tension and I love their feel. Labella820B trebles also have a nice feel. Especially for picados.
I´ve come to a point where the feel is more important than the strings sound... If the string feels right, I play well and I sound well, if the feel is bad, the guitar might sound well, but I wont be able to produce that sound.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 9 2007 8:40:07

marc55

Posts: 21
Joined: Jan. 22 2007

RE: Strings, Tension, type, and what... (in reply to Anders Eliasson)

OK read this and have to ask -

1) what brown string is Anders talking about ? I got a new 'hermanos sanchis lopez' a couple of years ago and it came with a brown 3rd string - thought it was some factory temporary thing - was Anders joking or are these
agricultural looking strings a serious cure for 'dull 3rd string syndrome'.

2) Was told that flamenco strings - name for name are NOT as hard as classical - so when I asked for Hannabach Hard tension the guy in the shop (a specialist flamenco shop) said they are similar in tension to D'addario or savarez normal tension - is this true - I'm now sooooooooooooo confused!!

I liked the feel of Hannabach MT but also have savarez and d'addario mediums on other guitars - which if what was said in the shop means I don't actually know what I like! I once had HT savarez but didn't really like the feel. I had Giannini low tensions (lasted ages) on an old guitar and liked the feel - so guitar/string match is obviously important ... I'd like to settle on a make/tension and buy a huge box of the buggers.

And some brown garden twine for the 3rd string.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 9 2007 18:50:27

Escribano

Posts: 6416
Joined: Jul. 6 2003
From: England, living in Italy

RE: Strings, Tension, type, and what... (in reply to marc55)

quote:

was Anders joking or are these agricultural looking strings a serious cure for 'dull 3rd string syndrome'.

Emilio Maya liked it very much on my Anders blanca and specifically asked what is was.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 9 2007 19:25:40

JBASHORUN

Posts: 1839
Joined: Jan. 23 2005

RE: Strings, Tension, type, and what... (in reply to marc55)

quote:

1) what brown string is Anders talking about ? I got a new 'hermanos sanchis lopez' a couple of years ago and it came with a brown 3rd string - thought it was some factory temporary thing - was Anders joking or are these
agricultural looking strings a serious cure for 'dull 3rd string syndrome'.

He's talking about the D'addario J45C 3rd string (like he said in his post). Apparently they are pretty good, although I can never be bothered to buy a WHOLE set of J45s JUST for the 3rd string.

I usually use Savarez basses and La Bella trebles. The basses are nice but they don't last long.

Jb

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 9 2007 19:51:38

Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: Strings, Tension, type, and what... (in reply to JBASHORUN)

Hey Bash,
Contact Henrik.
The sets come with 2 G strings.
One normal nylon, the other (brown) a special high tech mix.
Henrik throws the brown one away.
I think it's got a bit of edge over the normal (clear) one myself...

cheers,

Ron

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 9 2007 20:28:33

andresito

Posts: 377
Joined: Feb. 20 2007
From: New Holland

RE: Strings, Tension, type, and what... (in reply to Anders Eliasson)

I wondered from the photos of your guitars if that was a J45C coffee-coloured G you had on there, Anders... I like that string a lot too, some G's are kind of annoying, they seem to be the first to go our of tune and the hardest to tune... but that one is very very quick and precise to tune once you get the knack, since it's quite stiff compared to most others... why don't they make the B and E that way too?

But then maybe Anders just likes that string 'cause it's brown?

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 10 2007 7:41:36

Per Hallgren

Posts: 241
Joined: Jul. 1 2006
From: Sweden

RE: Strings, Tension, type, and what... (in reply to Bogdan1980)

For those who like the attack of the Alliance trebles but find them a little thin I can suggest trying treble strings from Carbon Line. I prefer those in front of all other carbon strings I have tried because the feel is more as a regular nylon string but still with the attack and sustain from a carbon string. I buy them from Saitenkatalog.

I have always disliked the brown d'Addario third on my classicals and never thought of trying them on a flamenco. I have a whole bunch of them somewhere. Will try one soon.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 10 2007 10:54:46

cneberg

Posts: 257
Joined: Apr. 20 2006
From: Sončno polje pri Večnosti

RE: Strings, Tension, type, and what... (in reply to Bogdan1980)

I really like this set:

The basses are really nice.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 10 2007 11:19:14

Doitsujin

Posts: 5078
Joined: Apr. 10 2005

RE: Strings, Tension, type, and what... (in reply to Bogdan1980)

I play this:

ok usually luthier coz I can buy single strings. Its cheaper. And the have a good tone longer than dadario. Well... at the moment I play adario coz they are good too and avalible in my local shop.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 10 2007 11:37:24

Jim Opfer

Posts: 1876
Joined: Jul. 19 2003
From: Glasgow, Scotland.

RE: Strings, Tension, type, and what... (in reply to Bogdan1980)

My choice

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 10 2007 12:09:03

Anders Eliasson

Posts: 5780
Joined: Oct. 18 2006

RE: Strings, Tension, type, and what... (in reply to Bogdan1980)

quote:

I have always disliked the brown d'Addario third on my classicals and never thought of trying them on a flamenco. I have a whole bunch of them somewhere. Will try one soon.

Per. I think that "now famous" brown thirdstring (Daddario EJ45C) is about the worst classical string I´ve tried. Its stiff, agressive and spoinky. Very flamenco indeed.

The worst part is its color. Its really ugly

Its supposed to be a composite string, but it has nothing to do with carbon trebles ala Savarez, Hannabach etc.

You can buy them one a piece at stringsbymail, but dont buy to many. They last forever. I have one on a guitar which I play a lot and its more than 1 year old and no signs of being "tired"

Its personal of course and I´m sure some will hate this string.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 10 2007 15:43:29

marc55

Posts: 21
Joined: Jan. 22 2007

RE: Strings, Tension, type, and what... (in reply to Bogdan1980)

Thanks everyone - I now know all about the brown string (still looks like something that should be in the garden!)- what about Flamenco Medium tension being lighter than classical medium tension - is this true or a myth (I don't think many makes publish the actual tension of the string as a pounds or kg rating or whatever it is scientist measure tension in - giannini do - but I don't think anyone else does so can't do a straight check by looking at the packet)?

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 10 2007 17:09:05

Arash

Posts: 4495
Joined: Aug. 9 2006
From: Iran (living in Germany)

RE: Strings, Tension, type, and what... (in reply to Bogdan1980)

Unfortunately there is no "perfect" string set for flamenco. All brands and models have their pros and contras IMO.
I tried La Bella, Hannabach, Luthier, Conde Hermanos strings, Savarez Corum Alliance, Daddario and some others.
I also have a Hermanos Sanchis Lopez Negra and my choice is (which is also a compromise):
Daddario EJ45C Pro Arte Medium tension because 1) best feeling when i play 2)overall acceptable good sound 3) they live very long
The sound of the Basses are not the best (Savarez Corum Alliance Basses have the best sound but only for a short time)

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 10 2007 17:22:24

Ricardo

Posts: 14828
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Strings, Tension, type, and what... (in reply to marc55)

quote:

what about Flamenco Medium tension being lighter than classical medium tension - is this true or a myth

myth.

To Anders:
Yes.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 10 2007 18:01:40

marc55

Posts: 21
Joined: Jan. 22 2007

RE: Strings, Tension, type, and what... (in reply to Ricardo)

many thanks

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 10 2007 23:20:17

Francisco

Posts: 879
Joined: Jun. 13 2005
From: SW USA

RE: Strings, Tension, type, and what... (in reply to Bogdan1980) 1 votes

quote:

I also have a Hermanos Sanchis Lopez Negra

Same here. Here are some really basic notes I took on some of the strings I have tried on this guitar:

Hannabach Titanyl - Pros - sound/tone was awesome, the size of the trebles were perfect (almost a little too thin), quick tune. Cons - $18/set, trebles sounded dead only after about 10 days.

Hannabach Flamenc 827HT the only notes I took on this set stated "Do not buy these strings again!!!!"

Hannabach Goldin Pros - Feel of the string was great esp. trebles, Sound/tone was decent at first but they really started to sound great after a few days and lasted longer than others I had tried (1.5 months). Cons - took forever before they would stay in tune (2-3 days), Basses were a bit on the dull side.

Luthier Concert Dark Silver 45HT
Pros - tuned quick, feel and sound great, Cons - don't sound near as good on this guitar as any Savarez I have tried, seem to not sound as good after about 3 weeks.

Savarez Corum 506J HT
Pros - the best overall sound/feel of any string that I have tried so far, lasted about 5 weeks. Cons - just wished they would have lasted a little longer.

Savarez Corum Alliance500AJ HT
Pros - slightly better tone than 506J, same feel. Probably the best string I have tried so far. Cons - again wished they would last longer.

Savarez Corum New Cristal 500CJ
Pros - the best sounding trebles of all the Savarez I have tried, 'probably' my favorite string so far. Cons - what do I have to do to get a string to last longer than a month and a half?

Savarez Red Card Basses & D'Addario T2 trebles
These are currently on my guitar. They don't quite measure up to the Savares 500 CJs, but may give them a run for their money if they will last a little longer than 6 weeks. The tone & feel are comprable to the Savarez, at least to my ears.

I have also tried the LaBella 820B & the Lutheier Supreme 20, but it's been a long time, and I didn't keep any notes on them. Guess I'll have to give them a try after the second set of Savarez 500CJ that are going on after the RedCard/T2 set that are currently on my guitar.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 11 2007 14:59:40

marc55

Posts: 21
Joined: Jan. 22 2007

RE: Strings, Tension, type, and what... (in reply to Francisco)

Excellent information thanks a lot - I've actually got a Blanca 2f - currently with Hannabach silver 200 MHT basses (cost $18 for basses only!!!) and luthier trebles - worked well but now need a change - I'm no professional so they stay on a long time and dull gracefully. I did like the Hannabach flamenco MT that came with the guitar ( new set of strings put on after purchase that is) but it could be misty nostalgia remembering how blown away I was by its sound first time I played it.

Got d'addario ej45s on a Montalvo Flamenca negra which sound great. But everything sounds great on it - note for note that is - not my playing (but getting better).

Hated Augustines - dulled fast and turned grey brown in a week - put some awfull Rotosound MTs on a classical I've got - dull and awful.

Found Gianninis surprisingly good and very cheap - use them on the e-bay bargains I've got laying about the house! I'm tempted to try them on one of my two good guitars - but only tempted.

Again thanks for the information -really useful

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 11 2007 20:02:16

Arash

Posts: 4495
Joined: Aug. 9 2006
From: Iran (living in Germany)

RE: Strings, Tension, type, and what... (in reply to Bogdan1980)

what is the difference between La Bella 820 and 820B?

I have just experience with 820.

Is the difference just Black trebles instead of the red trebles or any other difference in sound?

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 11 2007 20:41:41

Anders Eliasson

Posts: 5780
Joined: Oct. 18 2006

RE: Strings, Tension, type, and what... (in reply to Bogdan1980)

Officially they identical and I cant feel any difference myself, but some say the blacks are the best.... (when it comes to strings, there´s always someone dissagreeing

)

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 12 2007 8:16:37

Bogdan1980

Posts: 370
Joined: May 23 2007
From: Frederick, MD

RE: Strings, Tension, type, and what... (in reply to Bogdan1980)

Anders
So what strings do you put on a finished instrument?

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 12 2007 14:18:03

Anders Eliasson

Posts: 5780
Joined: Oct. 18 2006

RE: Strings, Tension, type, and what... (in reply to Bogdan1980)

In general I put Daddario EJ 45 on a new flamenco guitar. The reason is NOT that they are the best..

But.
They are cheap
They have a very good consistency. Maybe the best on the market.
They are nothing special, meaning that I will hear a standard response from my guitar. They are very much "middle of the road"
They are a good reference point because they are nothing special and because a LOT of people play them.

A thing that I find to be very good in a guitar is that you can use different strings on and so, colour your own sound. My guitars are quite indifferent to strings and I havent tried anything that didn´t work.

Sound is personal and I prefer brighter trebles, but cannot stand carbon trebles. So I put strings on my personal guitars that fits my ear and my fingers.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 13 2007 8:51:40

Guest

RE: Strings, Tension, type, and what... (in reply to Anders Eliasson)

as mentioned before luthier are excellent strings. You should try a set of these on your guitars anders, if you buy them in pack of 12 sets they are cheap too.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 13 2007 9:49:14

Guest

RE: Strings, Tension, type, and what... (in reply to Guest)

and there a picture of tomatito on the back

(it used to be paco)

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 13 2007 9:50:34

wiseguy493

Posts: 73
Joined: May 9 2007

RE: Strings, Tension, type, and what... (in reply to Bogdan1980)

I also agree that D'addario are the most consistent string on the market. With most good brands you can rely on them sounding good and somewhat the same in tone, but with D'addario they always sound identical to the last set.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 13 2007 20:25:42

MarkMc

Posts: 121
Joined: Oct. 1 2005
From: Wilsonville, Oregon

RE: Strings, Tension, type, and what... (in reply to Bogdan1980)

Hi,

I use Luthier 20 basses and LaBella 820B trebles.
A great combo!

The Luthier bases IMO sound and feel much better than the D'addario basses.
And they last about as long, much longer than Savarez Corum basses...

And the LaBella 820B trebles have that crunchy, earthy sound with lot's of punch.

cheers!
Mark

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 13 2007 23:54:55

Anders Eliasson

Posts: 5780
Joined: Oct. 18 2006

RE: Strings, Tension, type, and what... (in reply to Bogdan1980)

I Like the Luthier 20 basses as well, but I have a clear feeling that one of the reasons is that they are lower tension than Daddario normal tension. On some guitars I use the Luthier 20 trebles and on some the 820B´s from Labella

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 14 2007 8:06:39