Questions about Home Training System

Costs are rising and times are tough.
Please consider a donation to keep this
place going.

Welcome to one of the most active flamenco sites on the Internet. Guests can read most posts but if you want to participate click here to register.

This site is dedicated to the memory of Paco de Lucía, Ron Mitchell, Guy Williams, Linda Elvira, Philip John Lee, Craig Eros, Ben Woods, David Serva and Tom Blackshear who went ahead of us.

We receive 12,200 visitors a month from 200 countries and 1.7 million page impressions a year. To advertise on this site please contact us.

You are logged in as Guest

Users viewing this topic: none

Printable Version

All Forums >>Discussions >>General >>

Page: [1]

Message

<< Newer Topic Older Topic >>

Guitarist

Posts: 13
Joined: Jan. 18 2007

Questions about Home Training System

Hi everyone,

I'm a beginner in the flamenco world and I really need help because there is so much to practice in Flamenco music! If I were to practice all that I needed: Right hand, left hand, rasguedos, picado, scales, chords, I would need about 3 hours a day and maybe more! Perhaps I am doing it the wrong way!

I am trying to create a daily training system to cover all the flamenco guitarist's skills. But all the time that I can give is only two hours a day. So I will start with some basic knowledge:

Skill 1: Techniques (Right and left hands, rasguedos, picado, scales, chords)
The techniques should be separated in two divisions:
1- Review what already learnt. (30 minutes)
2- Learning new technique. (30 minutes)

Skill 2: Playing Solos (listening, reading and playing notes)
The playing should be separated in two divisions also:
1- Review what already learnt. (30 minutes)
2- Learning new solos. (30 minutes)

To be specified, here are my questions:
1- What do you think about my system mentioned above and expected results?

2- Should I work on the Chords and Scales, or they will come with the time as a result of playing solos?

3- If anyone has a training system, please describe it here with time details if possible?

Thanks a lot,

Guitarist

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 22 2007 12:15:00

John O.

Posts: 1723
Joined: Dec. 16 2005
From: Seeheim-Jugenheim, Germany

RE: Questions about Home Training System (in reply to Guitarist)

There are so many different systems and styles of teaching, makes it tough to know what's best for you. I can only give a tip based on what helped/helps me:

You should ask yourself if you want to eventually accompany dance and song or just play pieces for solo guitar.

Spend loads of time with rhythms as a beginner. Learn loads of different rasgueado/tresillos in the different palos, concentrating on one at a time, spending lots of time on each one learning as many simple falsetas as you can. Get a flamenco metronome for your computer for practising.

I split my technique practise into 6 parts: picado, thumb, arpeggio, rasgueado, tresillo, tremolo. I incorporate things I want to learn into this technique practise, meaning different falsetas that are fit for certain techniques.

For you as a beginner though I'd say it's important to learn the basic scales and chords, understand their relationships to each other as well as practise dry technique. There are some great books out there for beginners and intermediate players from Oscar Herrero and Gerhard Graf-Martinez to name just a couple.

The best of course is to look for a flamenco dance school in your area and find out if they work with guitarists - then you'll have your own teacher!

Hope this helps,
John

_____________________________

Don't sweat the petty things and don't pet the sweaty things

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 22 2007 13:37:31

guitarbuddha

Posts: 2970
Joined: Jan. 4 2007

RE: Questions about Home Training System (in reply to Guitarist)

Pieces are made up of chords and scales. When you learn a piece try and be aware of what chord you are playing and make a connection with that and any melodies ( scalar for the most part in flamenco ).

You will get double the value from your repetoire practive if you do this. The Oscar Herrero books have the chords at the top of the stave ( as do most published transcriptions in guitar magazines ) force yourself to learn them as you learn the piece and a lot of the 'mystery' of music will be revealed.

Oh and another thing when I practice I ALWAYS have electronic acccompaniment ( ie loops or metronome ) I suggest that you do the same otherwise when you go to play with others there will be a nasty awakening.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 22 2007 14:37:57

Ricardo

Posts: 14829
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Questions about Home Training System (in reply to Guitarist)

quote:

To be specified, here are my questions:
1- What do you think about my system mentioned above and expected results?

2- Should I work on the Chords and Scales, or they will come with the time as a result of playing solos?

3- If anyone has a training system, please describe it here with time details if possible?

1. You should not be trying to learn complete "solo" pieces. Your focus should be on compas (rhythmic strumming), and falsetas (very short melodic pieces). A solo can be constructed or improvised even, after many of the above has been mastered.

2.If you don't know how to play basic open chords, work on that first, switching them in rhythm. Scales not so important unless you feel a need to learn the neck well for improvising in a jazz way. Otherwise, the neck reveals itself to you intime learning fasletas and pieces of music not even flamenco related. Again, don't try to learn flamenco through complete solo pieces like one would do in classical guitar.

3. 2hours is all you got, so ONE hour just doing COMPAS strumming. Old patterns, new patterns, bulerias, solea, tangos, whatever you know or want to learn. Then the 2nd hour work on FALSETAS, old or new. That is it.

Ricardo

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 22 2007 19:02:53

boral

Posts: 68
Joined: Apr. 27 2007

RE: Questions about Home Training System (in reply to Ricardo)

Hi Ricardo,

In My first two years of flamenco I tried to learn mostly solo pieces.
Now, I am almost about to say that you are right.
That system seems much more logical to learn flamenco. Unless you live in a place were you would not meet any flamencos (that's my case); in these case one can IMO try some solos

Cheers

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 22 2007 22:00:09

Wannabee

Posts: 131
Joined: Jan. 13 2007

RE: Questions about Home Training System (in reply to Guitarist)

Something no one else has mentioned.....a lot of listening is also good.

If you're interested in a certain palo, do a search on youtube for that palo and listen to as many examples as you can. Don't be discouraged if they seem way beyond your level, just enjoy the music at first. Gradually, things will fall into place.

If you can find some good flamenco CD's, thats good too.

If you are using a "method book", listen to the examples over and over. It's very easy to think you know how something goes.....but later you discover you were not quite right. Course books with just CD's are OK, but DVD or videos are better.
It really helps to be able to see the correct hand positions and watch the various techniques in action.

There is no substitute for a good teacher, but if you get a course with a DVD, then it's possible to learn.

Good Luck

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 23 2007 1:47:55

John O.

Posts: 1723
Joined: Dec. 16 2005
From: Seeheim-Jugenheim, Germany

RE: Questions about Home Training System (in reply to boral)

quote:

Unless you live in a place were you would not meet any flamencos (that's my case); in these case one can IMO try some solos

Let me just tell you about my experience with that: I spent years learning solo pieces thinking there was no flamenco happening in my area. After years I found I was completely wrong and the pieces I had spent so much time on were rhythmically wrong - had to change everything...

Still today once in a while I'll play a falseta I've known for years and don't count anymore, not noticing it's wrong until I'm sitting in front of a flamenco metronome.

In any case if you're going to try some solos there are certain pieces you'll need to keep away from if you don't know where to look for rhythmic errors, like those from Manitas de Plata, Carlos Montoya, even some old Sabicas stuff is off. One of the first pieces I tried was a guajira of Sabicas' which actually had less to do with the actual feeling of a guajira, it was just a bunch of picados and rasgueados in three keys.

_____________________________

Don't sweat the petty things and don't pet the sweaty things

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 23 2007 7:45:48

boral

Posts: 68
Joined: Apr. 27 2007

RE: Questions about Home Training System (in reply to John O.)

quote:

In any case if you're going to try some solos there are certain pieces you'll need to keep away from if you don't know where to look for rhythmic errors, like those from Manitas de Plata, Carlos Montoya, even some old Sabicas stuff is off. One of the first pieces I tried was a guajira of Sabicas' which actually had less to do with the actual feeling of a guajira, it was just a bunch of picados and rasgueados in three keys.

Only these year I have tried to play with a metronome. You are correct; it is the only way to know if you are doing it right. About the solos, I was thinking more of Juam Martin, Graf-Martinez, Granados and Paco Peña.

Cheers

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 23 2007 9:09:14

Guitarist

Posts: 13
Joined: Jan. 18 2007

RE: Questions about Home Training System (in reply to Guitarist)

Hi all,

I really thank you for your helps, and I did not know the metronome is very important! I will get one very soon.

But I have one more question and it is very important:
I notice that when I work out on some exercise and during the first 7 or 10 days, I feel that I learn very quickly and the exercise improves in every day. But I reach to a level that I can not improve it any more! The fast improvement is gone! At least this is what I see.

Do you have any idea about this?

Thanks

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 23 2007 23:46:57

wiseguy493

Posts: 73
Joined: May 9 2007

RE: Questions about Home Training System (in reply to Guitarist)

My opinions =)

I think the first 6 months at least should be spent learning the most traditional falsettas and learning the ins and outs of the compas for the most essential palos (Soleares, Seguiriyas, Bulerias, Alegrias, Tangos, Tientos are what I think are most essential). Any method book can teach you this, Manuel Granados is commonly known as one of the best but also kind of expensive. I would avoid Juan Martin's method books, this are very sub-par. Gerhard Graf-Martinez is OK if you can find them for a low price.

While learning these traditional falsettas, you will also pick up most of the basic techniques. Once you master these falsettas and learn to feel the compas, you should start learning solos. As you learn solos, it's not so important to learn to play the solo as it is written, the purpose of flamenco solos are to learn the ideas. So when you learn a solo, say Soleares, mix it with the other material you already know. Learn a solo one falsetta at a time, mixing it with your own material, and with falsettas from other solos from other players. This gives you more diversity in your playing and will help you understand how to compose your own solos and improvise.

Whether you plan to play with singers or dancers or not, you should still learn about these arts because it will help you understand compas and is very important. You should also practice accompanying palmas, and clapping the palmas yourself. Understanding these counter-rhythms is essential for playing Bulerias and the more advanced Tangos, Zapateado and other palos.

One thing to be sure of, flamenco does not come quickly. It takes a passion to learn it and you have to be dedicated to it. If you can't play more than 2 hours a day (this is sufficient) you should still listen to flamenco whenever you can. Put some solos on your MP3 player, learn to recognize them by how they sound, and expose yourself to it at every opportunity.

Good luck to ya!

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 24 2007 0:35:53

John O.

Posts: 1723
Joined: Dec. 16 2005
From: Seeheim-Jugenheim, Germany

RE: Questions about Home Training System (in reply to Guitarist)

quote:

But I have one more question and it is very important:
I notice that when I work out on some exercise and during the first 7 or 10 days, I feel that I learn very quickly and the exercise improves in every day. But I reach to a level that I can not improve it any more! The fast improvement is gone! At least this is what I see.

The improvement with techniques will become slower the better you get. What you'll find though the more your learn is that you'll have less time per day for each technique, and you want to have everything down, not only picado for example. The trick is practising every technique everyday keeping it warm while constantly learning new things.

_____________________________

Don't sweat the petty things and don't pet the sweaty things

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 24 2007 7:19:05