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whats the benefit of 660mm scale compared to 650mm?
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whats the benefit of 660mm scale com...
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whats the benefit of 660mm scale compared to 650mm, there must be some reason they have the bigger scale but im not sure i havent played the 660mm before. Thanks in advance for any info.
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Date May 12 2007 22:58:06
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Guest
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RE: whats the benefit of 660mm scale... (in reply to jshelton5040)
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Hey thanks for your help! quote:
At the risk of making myself a target for ridicule I'll make a stab a answering this question c'mon it wasnt such a stupid question was it well all i thought it would do was make it more of a strech to play on i would never have thought the sound itself would be different.
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Date May 14 2007 2:32:26
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Guest
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RE: whats the benefit of 660mm scale... (in reply to Guest)
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now u made me paranoid. Did i miss out on the whole 650-660mm scoop somewhere on the way. Everyones like, you spazzy dont u know anything, of course 650mm sounds different to 660mm.
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Date May 14 2007 2:35:55
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TANúñez
Posts: 2559
Joined: Jul. 10 2003
From: TEXAS
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RE: whats the benefit of 660mm scale... (in reply to flamencoguru)
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quote:
I believe flamenco guitars that have a scale of 660mm or more have bigger, more flamenco sound. I have a few friends that are very well known luthiers and they swear that flamenco guitars should have a scale no shorter that 660mm. I believe them because I have played quite a few guitars and I can confirm this. I don't know why guitarists are so hung up on scale length. I think it's a bunch of bull when the excuse is....... "I have small hands". I've seen Manolo Sanlucar and I can tell you he probably has the smallest hands on the planet...... he plays a 660mm. Now, what do the have to say? Hey Errol, There is one thing you have to consider. I don't know at what age Manolo started playing but I'm assuming it was while he was a child. A child will develop dexterity in his fingers/hands and once an adult, will have, or should have, the dexterity to reach difficult chords and make long stretches. An adult, learning to play the guitar at say...30, will never develop that dexterity. He'll develop some flexability, but his hands will not be like they would had he started playing the guitar as a child. Same applies to a pianist. Which is why it is so important for a child to begin piano lessons before he is 10 years old. After that, the hands will not develop the same way. My hands aren't that big. Probably small to medium. I have trouble playing longer scale guitars without a capo. However, since I'm always using the capo, longer scale do not matter to me. I do however practice a lot without it to help with flexibility. Given the fact that the capo is used so much in flamenco, we should not worry so much about longer scale guitars. Lester DeVoe told me a while back the he feels that many hand injuries are a result of long scale guitars. So he prefers to build 650 and 655 scale lengths and accomodates larger hands by wider nut widths. I personally like 655. It's a nice compromise.
_____________________________
Tom Núñez www.instagram.com/tanunezguitars
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Date May 14 2007 21:50:20
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Guest
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RE: whats the benefit of 660mm scale... (in reply to jshelton5040)
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Hola I have discussed this with Jose Romero, one of the finest guitarreros de España and his opinion is that 655 centres the sound. His prototype flamenco guitar is abeto, cipres and palillos, 655 de tiro. One day I will have the money to order it. I have 2 guitars. One is 650, the other 660. The 660 sounds better, not because of its tiro, but because it is a Gerundino. The only great Conde I was ever offered, I rejected, because it was 670. What a mistake:-( The idea that a long scale is better because of the cejilla convinces me completely. That the sound is noticably different, no. Sean
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Date May 16 2007 16:22:44
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a_arnold
Posts: 558
Joined: Jul. 30 2006
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RE: whats the benefit of 660mm scale... (in reply to Guest)
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I've got at 650 blanca and then commissioned a 660 negra by Salvador Castillo. He told me before he made the 660 that it would have more sustain, a more "profound", bigger sound. At the risk of disagreeing with John Shelton (never a safe thing to do), all that Salvador predicted is true. The difference is immediately noticeable. But, as John would point out, that's just 2 guitars. I put a new set of strings on them both after they were both played in and compared them side by side. The 660 has the same "punch" as the 650, but the longer sustain tends to mask the punch somewhat (during fast picado runs, for example.) If you blindfolded me I couldn't tell the difference with my hands as far as the "feel" of the extra 10mm goes, but the sound is unmistakable. The big difference is in sustain. Having more sustain means the effect of the strings aging and going dead becomes more noticeable earlier on the 660. I think the 660 has a more classical sound, and is therefore better suited to flamenco solos that have a more lyrical feel (alegrias por Rosa, zambra mora, granainas, etc.) It would also be a good compromise for someone who wanted to play both classical and flamenco and only had one guitar. By the way, I understand PDL's conde is more than 660 -- maybe 667, if I remember correctly. And (although I disagree with him) Huber's book (the Development of the Modern Guitar) makes the (unsupported) claim that professionals prefer the longer string length, and implies that this is because the "bigger" sound is necessary for concert performance, even though it is harder to play, especially for "amateurs". Take Huber's academic opinion for what it's worth. It's a good book, but not intended to be scholarly, and I doubt he took a census of professional players' string lengths. I guess opinions are allowed in a non-scholarly book, even when unsupported by data. Huber does, however, provide an extensive list of the proportions and string lengths of a large number of top-end guitars made by respected luthiers. Apparently he has been taking measurements through his entire academic career. Hope that helps. Tony Arnold
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Date May 16 2007 22:11:33
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