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bulerias the "new rumba"?
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a_arnold
Posts: 558
Joined: Jul. 30 2006
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 bulerias the "new rumba"?
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I was just reading Conrad's post on "Jesus de Rosario Sin Tanto" and I was struck by a comment he made. It does seem like bulerias predominate the Foro discussions and audio uploads. Just as it does on Jesus de Rosario's CD.
When I was just starting to study flamenco, my teacher gave more or less equal emphasis to all the forms. Of course, he played nightly shows with a company, and HAD to have the variety, but 30 years ago, bulerias were nothing special -- faster and fun to play, and almost always presented as the "grand finale" of a company performance, but bulerias was just one of many forms.
Now, it has seemed to have taken on a life of its own.
Admittedly, I have not been following mainstream flamenco the way I should have (until a few years ago, the only recordings I had of PDL were 45 rpm vinyl! AND he still had hair. On top.)
In my youth, the rumba was considered to be the mainstay of the amateur's repertoire. Everybody could play it, and everyone (especially those who could do nothing else) did. And no-one took it seriously. (Except maybe those who took up flamenco in order to meet girls.)
Now, everybody seems to be focused on bulerias, almost like they used to be on rumbas. Why is that? What happened while I was gone?
Don't get me wrong -- I'm not trying to imply foro members are amateurs. I know many of you are pro. And I love to play bulerias. And to listen, too. And yes, I know members of the foro play other forms too, and I'm not trying to offend anyone, but the bulerias compas seems to take up a disproportionate space on this foro. And on audio uploads from the foro. Does my perception reflect reality? Has bulerias become the "new rumba"? Or is it just me?
If my perception is right, please enlighten me as to why this has happened. I'll take my answer off the air. . .
Tony Arnold
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Date May 10 2007 15:32:11
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Ricardo
Posts: 14828
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC
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RE: bulerias the "new rumba"? (in reply to a_arnold)
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quote:
but 30 years ago, bulerias were nothing special -- faster and fun to play, and almost always presented as the "grand finale" of a company performance, but bulerias was just one of many forms.
I don't agree with that at all. I would say, bulerias was always important. Pure flamenco happens most often in the juergas, and the main rhythm of the juerga is bulerias. Watching Rito y Geografia and seeing these old ladies from an old era, both pro and amature, they were all tapping their feet and doing palmas the same as the young people today. Only the guitar has gotten really funky and up beat, but the singing and clapping and dancing seems to not have changed much. And they will keep that rhythm going all night. So it has always been really important.
Rumba on the other hand has gotten to be more sophisticated and "artisitic" thanks to guys like Paco and other guitarists who chose not to look at rumba as cheesy pop music, but yet another rhythm on which things can be composed. As far as cante and the juerga, gitanos love the tangos beat almost as much as bulerias, and of couse doing it a little quick allows rumba elements to come into it. And vice versa, tangos can be done as rumba.
My personal feeling is, and I have no recording proof and am not an ethnomusicologist, is that RHYTHM especially beats where quarter note (foot tap) is around 115 bpm like bulerias (half note) or rumba, is OLD and fundamental. I believe the other types of rhythms in flamenco, slow solea, alegrias, or free style fandangos, evolved OUT of those types of rhythms, slowed down to become more deep and expressive. Old siguiryas or martinetes in Jerez were often sung over a real fast beat. That seems to be coming back with modern interpretations.
So I guess my point is that the up beat rhythm like bulerias was always real important, and still is today, and will be in the future for sure.
Ricardo
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Date May 10 2007 17:09:39
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wiseguy493
Posts: 73
Joined: May 9 2007
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RE: bulerias the "new rumba"? (in reply to a_arnold)
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I think the extreme popularity of bulerias has happened for many reasons:
(1) Audiences like fast, excited, highly flourished flamenco and bulerias is exactly that
(2) Dancers do wonderful things with bulerias
(3) The palmas rhythms are exciting and very active in bulerias
(4) There are so many very different varieties of bulerias structure, so a player can record many different bulerias that don't sound at all alike.
(5) The theatrical commercialization of flamenco was essential for the survival of the art. Bulerias was very successful theatrically, so naturally it became a very dominant form of flamenco
I think that comparing bulerias to rumba is pointless as the two are completely unrelated. Bulerias is traditional, rumba is not. Rhythmically their structure is quite different, but many nuevo players have combined characteristics of the two to create quite brilliant works.
In my own personal opinion, I believe that bulerias has been recorded too much while other forms have been less appreciated. Bulerias is not my favorite to play and not my favorite to listen to, but I do enjoy watching the dances very much. I would rather play and listen to solea, that is my favorite, and fortunately it is a form that must be appreciated =)
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Date May 10 2007 18:35:22
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a_arnold
Posts: 558
Joined: Jul. 30 2006
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RE: bulerias the "new rumba"? (in reply to Guest)
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quote:
I don't agree with that at all. I would say, bulerias was always important.
Well, I kind of got the response I expected, including automatic disagreement with something I didn't even say.
I'm not trying to say bulerias wasn't "important" 30 years ago. Take note that the word "important" didn't appear anywhere in my post. And please note that I also didn't say the compas isn't old, and I'm also not saying it isn't fundamental, Ricardo. I'm not making any value judgments about importance, priority, or fundamentalness. I'm just wondering why it seems to be played so much more now.
Or if I am even correct in that observation. I'm ONLY saying that it seemed to me (again, 30 years ago) that the attention it received was about the same as soleares, farruca, tientos, etc. The recording and performing time dedicated to bulerias (then) seemed about the same as that given to other forms, and even the juergas I attended in Almeria were more balanced (the internet wasn't even a twinkle in Al Gore's eye then, so I can't compare that.)
So, Ricardo, when you say. . .
quote:
Pure flamenco happens most often in the juergas, and the main rhythm of the juerga is bulerias.
Are you saying that bulerias was always played as much as it is now in juergas, and that the purity of juerga flamenco is onlt now seeping out into the more public repertoire, and that is the reason bulerias is played more? Does that mean flamenco is more pure now than it was then, because it is more reflective of the juerga setting?
And James, when you refer to ...
quote:
. . . The Holy Grail Of Bulerias...
you seem to be agreeing that bulerias has special status. Was it always the Holy Grail, or is this a recent development? And Ricardo, are you saying that bulerias has always had a special status, and I just never noticed?
I will be the first to admit I have been out of touch for a long time. My teacher was a stickler for tradition, and I've been playing in that tradition virtually unaffected by outside influence since 1970. I'm an out-of-date time capsule. One of the things I have noticed is that the landscape of flamenco seems to have changed somewhat in that time. Bulerias seems to be everywhere now. Am I wrong?
Erik (wiseguy493) seems to suggest that it is the innate appeal and rhythmic excitement that accounts for bulerias' growth in popularity. But it has always had that excitement, and something is different now. I suspect that if soleares were suddenly everywhere today, someone would attribute its popularity to its depth and soulfulness.
duende seems to agree with my perception of bulerias' disproportionate popularity, but offers no explanation. And I agree -- 2 bulerias is more than enough on any CD. But that's my personal taste for variety speaking, and yet, judging from what gets recorded, there seems to be enough audience out there to support an All Bulerias, All the Time radio station.
And no Ricardo, I'm not saying you are that audience. Just wondering what, if anything, changed?
Tony Arnold
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Date May 10 2007 20:49:07
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Ricardo
Posts: 14828
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC
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RE: bulerias the "new rumba"? (in reply to Guest)
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quote:
ust curious because I sensed a bit of contempt for ethnomusicology.
Hmm, no offense intended, nor contempt. I was making a statement about a personal theory to be taken with a grain of salt because I am not one to do the proper research to make such a claim. An ethnomusicalogist I guess would need to do some digging around inorder to make a similar claim to what I said. I am just assuming based on a feeling I have. So my idea about rhythm like bulerias being most fundamental is grain of salt stuff. That is all. No offense.
quote:
Ricardo, are you saying that bulerias has always had a special status, and I just never noticed?
Exactly. That is exactly what I was saying. I mean you guys are all entitled to the opinion that it is good to have variety on Recordings. I am just saying if you start playing flamenco, you will find yourself playing lots of bulerias all the time. It is only natural that any working guitarist will have lots of bulerias material prepared to record, if nothing else. I also think if you get bored or tired of listening to bulerias constantly, or playing it, then, well, I think that is strange. I mean, personally, I could listen to an album of only bulerias. I could have a juerga with people that only know 3 letras, and keep repeating them all night. With friends and colleages that are flamenco performers, it is buleras in the car, back stage, between sets, after words in the bar, walking down the street, you name it. In spain I got the same feeling.
Watching Rito y Geografia, filmed before I was born, I see old grandmas with the same groove going on, like it was always the same deal. Bulerias day and night. So all I can offer as my personal view and opinion, is bulerias was always the most important rhythm in flamenco, and always will be. I dont' think that means other forms are in danger of dieing out, nor should be neglected. I am just saying I have no problems with artists the choose to record only bulerias and tangos. I mean one of my favorite cante albums is the Zambo family, and it is ONLY bulerias. I can listen to that stuff all day. I would not say to sing and play that way is a modern trend. Quite the contrary.
Ricardo
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Date May 11 2007 5:45:17
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a_arnold
Posts: 558
Joined: Jul. 30 2006
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RE: bulerias the "new rumba"? (in reply to Ricardo)
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quote:
I am just saying if you start playing flamenco, you will find yourself playing lots of bulerias all the time.
Well, Ricardo, you have me there. I've been playing a long time, and you're right, I DO play more bulerias than anything else. It drives my wife crazy -- and I don't mean in a good way.
But I still feel like it gets performed/recorded to the exclusion of too much of the rest of the repertoire. Do you think this is a permanent state or a passing phase? Is the palo so popular (I don't deny it is) because it's innately superior in some way, or is it a matter of changing fashion? Is it's popularity akin to that of the rumba? (OR: here's a hypothesis: the rumba is popular because it's easy; bulerias because it's more interesting/exciting. Or because it has a longer history?)
Are you saying that flamenco, basically, is a steady diet of bulerias with side dishes of everything else, and that's the way it should be?
you say . . .
quote:
...if you get bored or tired of listening to bulerias constantly, or playing it, then, well, I think that is strange.
Constantly? Sounds almost like everyone has a basic, fundamental, inborn biological drive to play bulerias, but most sublimate it into activities like eating, sleeping, and sex.
Superficially, that sounds like an extreme position, but note: I'm not actually disagreeing with you. Still, you have to admit, it's an interesting perspective.
Okay, I have to admit, that when I listen to a new CD, I do perk up when a bulerias starts. But all bulerias all the time. . . ?
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Date May 12 2007 23:42:15
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a_arnold
Posts: 558
Joined: Jul. 30 2006
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RE: bulerias the "new rumba"? (in reply to a_arnold)
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Ricardo,
I recall you saying that you believe bulerias is an older, more fundamental palo than soleares, which the majority of "authorities" seem to agree is the "root" palo. Is there any actual evidence for either position?
My teacher taught me soleares s my first piece, and told me it was the oldest, deepest (I think most "profound" might have been his word), and, being a dutiful student, I didn't think to question him. But I'm sure he was just telling me what his teacher (Ramon Montoya) had said, who was undoubtedly passing on what he had learned.
A lot of people might regard Ramon Montoya as a reliable source, but I get the sense that all we really have is a lot of "authorities" quoting each other's opinions, and everybody else then deciding that because the authorities agree, it must be so. I'm not sure how such a question could ever be resolved in a poorly documented oral tradition like flamenco, but I'd be interested in knowing what led you to draw your conclusion, or if you know why some think soleares is the older form.
Yes, I know you aren't an ethnomusicologist, but maybe you know of a source you trust. . .?
The word bulerias is supposed to mean joke, or mockery (it's probably cognate with burlesque in french and english, derived from the Latin "burla", also meaning joke.) The Latin origins of the word don't imply that bulerias is old, but the idea of mockery does suggest that bulerias is a mockery of something -- possibly another palo . . . which I know is stretching for an answer.
It would be easy to assume, because the compas of bulerias is a speeded up soleares, that bulerias is derived from soleares, and the majority opinion may have no more basis than that assumption. But it seems equally rational to say soleares is a slowed down bulerias.
Any evidence either way?
Tony Arnold
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Date May 13 2007 15:20:46
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Ricardo
Posts: 14828
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC
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RE: bulerias the "new rumba"? (in reply to a_arnold)
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quote:
I recall you saying that you believe bulerias is an older, more fundamental palo than soleares, which the majority of "authorities" seem to agree is the "root" palo. Is there any actual evidence for either position?
That is not what I said. I was talking specifically about the rhythm. A rhythm more or less LIKE bulerias in terms of feel and tempo I am saying I personally believe to be a predasessor, not the song form "bulerias". Bulerias is believe to evolve from Soleares, but the flamencologists are talking about the song form, the melody of the cante. My point is that the seeming popularity of bulerias today is not such a big deal when you consider the importance of the rhythm of that song form, all along. I mean the bulerias sung today are not necessarilly the same as the ones that evloved from Solea. Some are of course, but you can sing any song in the bulerias rhythm. My point is that the rhythm itself has always been important, so it is not surprising that it is still popular today.
Perhaps you should investigate what Solea evolved from. I have heard that it evolved from "Jaleos", which is rather similar rhythm to bulerias today. Also the melodies of "Romances" are a lot like Solea and bulerias, versus Siguiriyas which are more like Martinetes, Tonas and Saetas.
But without recordings it is hard to say since everything is "oral". I recommend watching Rito y Geografia and listening to the oldest recordings you can find if you are interested in evolutions of flamenco song forms. In the mean time, I say try to put up with all the bulerias going on, it is good stuff. 
Ricardo
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Date May 16 2007 6:25:21
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). Perhaps this superficial lack of challenge for the performer makes it seem shameful to play too much of it. It is still a lovely vehicle for improvisation and this seems to be where the main focus is in recordings where the guitar is more often than not used like a jazz/fusion instrument in a percussion based ensemble. 
