Learning the Spanish language

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Billyboy

Posts: 389
Joined: Aug. 18 2003

Learning the Spanish language

I have tried unsuccessfully to learn the Spanish language, even having private lessons without success, I just can't get my mouth round it, but Ive always been hopeless with language, it took me till I was twelve before I could speak English properly LOL, parents took me to the doc, no joke, although my brain seems to have changed recently to become more receptive to picking stuff up when In Spain, my question, which way is the best, I saw a program with Paul Daniels in the 80's where he learnt to speak fluent Spanish, from nothing in 3 days, even being tested by people in the audience, he said he used an intense word association technique. Anyone tried it?
Cheers
Dave
P.S please don't reply in Spanish LOL

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 20 2004 13:17:27

Escribano

Posts: 6417
Joined: Jul. 6 2003
From: England, living in Italy

RE: Learning the Spanish language (in reply to Billyboy)

quote:

which way is the best?

Try the Linguaphone All Talk CD course. Michel Thomas has a good two CD product as well.

I learnt French after 6 weeks of living there - nothing beats being surrounded by it and using it every day. Your grammar may end up somewhat limited with no formal study, but you will have a great accent, huge vocab. and lots of colloquial slang. Alternatively, try watching a Spanish-speaking tv station regularly.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 20 2004 13:23:43

Billyboy

Posts: 389
Joined: Aug. 18 2003

RE: Learning the Spanish language (in reply to Escribano)

Ive got tha Thomas CD, but he teaches daft things, like "where is the frog", couldent beleive it, the Lingaphone thing just as stupid, things like, "Now listen to my Question", things you would never need to say in real life, after learning some of the Lingaphone German a few years ago, I went sking, and asked one person, "Wo ist der Idioton hugle"mening the beginners slope, which was greated by howels of laughter, that Thomas geezer, speaks Spanish with a German accent which is bizzare.
Cheers
Dave

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 20 2004 14:58:15

Phil

Posts: 382
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Rota, Spain

RE: Learning the Spanish language (in reply to Billyboy)

quote:

I saw a program with Paul Daniels in the 80's where he learnt to speak fluent Spanish, from nothing in 3 days, even being tested by people in the audience, he said he used an intense word association technique. Anyone tried it?

And I say that it is impossible to learn a language in 3 days or even 3 months. It really aggravates me to see people make such claims. I've been looking for a good advanced level Spanish course on CD to improve my grammar, but haven't found one yet. Unfortunately, the teaching of Spanish as foreign language is not quite as developed as the teaching of English. The Brits really know how to teach English well, because they have had so much experience in teaching it around the world. I found a pretty good cassette program a few years ago that is probably available on CD. It's called "Skill Builder, Spanish Verbs" by Living Language. It focuses on all the verb tenses and has 4, 60 minute cassettes.

I recommend that you study the grammar a bit, get down some useful phrases, listen to as much as you can, (there are Spanish radio stations on the internet, for example), and go to Spain for a few weeks and try to communicate only in Spanish while you're there. A foreign language is not easy to learn (at least for me). Some people have a gift for picking up languages easily and the rest of us have to work our asses off to learn even the basics. Come to think of it, it's kind of like learning the guitar.

Good luck,
Phil

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 21 2004 0:21:40

Billyboy

Posts: 389
Joined: Aug. 18 2003

RE: Learning the Spanish language (in reply to Phil)

Thanks Phil, that Paul Daniels thing, it may be a big lie, don’t no, but maybe it wasn't, he went on a intense word association course where for example “Wald” in German meaning forest; so you imagine yourself Vaulting through a forest, but I would think it just works for words, cant see how it would work for grammar, the hard thing I find is asking a question, and making a statement, you use the same phrase, just emphasise a different part of the sentence, that might be wrong, maybe someone could correct me on that. Also reversing of sentences, Like "I have in Granada lived" Its like Guitar I suppose repartition, or exposure, I have never met anyone who has gone to night school, ever learn it fluent, I think you need to live there for a while.
Cheers
Dave

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 21 2004 18:33:45

Escribano

Posts: 6417
Joined: Jul. 6 2003
From: England, living in Italy

RE: Learning the Spanish language (in reply to Billyboy)

Building a vocab. is easy it you have a strong sense of Latin languages, an ear, a newspaper and a dictionary. The challenges are grammatic construction i.e. conjugation, gender and tenses. Let's not forget the accent

Paul Daniels is a dickhead. My wife speaks 5 languages, including Spanish and Dutch, with a TEFL and TEFL for Business. For her, there is no subsitute for formal lessons in the country of origin.

Me, I pick it up from nagging au pairs and down the bar

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 21 2004 18:52:34

gerundino63

Posts: 1743
Joined: Jul. 11 2003
From: The Netherlands

RE: Learning the Spanish language (in reply to Escribano)

I have red, that you have to know about 5000 words to speak a language pretty good, let's say, as good as my english, LOL!
I hardly remember my shopping list every day, so 5000 words, in 3 days..........

So, your wife speaks Duch, here is a message for her!

Wil je Simon een dikke knuffel van me geven voor het geweldige werk wat hij voor iedereen op het forum doet? groetjes, Peter.

Now you are curious huh??
greetings, Peter

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 21 2004 19:19:14

Phil

Posts: 382
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Rota, Spain

RE: Learning the Spanish language (in reply to Billyboy)

quote:

Building a vocab. is easy it you have a strong sense of Latin languages, an ear, a newspaper and a dictionary. The challenges are grammatic construction i.e. conjugation, gender and tenses. Let's not forget the accent

Simon,
I agree with that 100%. I've always told my ESL students that vocabulary is the easiest part of learning a language. It's putting those words into understandable sentences and pronouncing them properly that's difficult. I know some Americans that have been living in Rota for years, and can't tell someone what happened yesterday in Spanish, because they can't put a sentence into any of the past tenses. Yet, they have relatively large vocabularies. That's not to say that you have to have perfect grammar and pronunciation to be understood, but you have to at least make an effort. Good pronunciation will make up for a lot a bad grammar,

but when your pronunciation AND grammar are bad it makes it very difficult for those who are trying to understand you.

BTW, does anyone know of a good forum for people learning Spanish? Please don't tell me to do a google search. I know I can do that. I want to know if anyone here has found any such forums and which ones they like.

Phil

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 21 2004 20:22:33

Escribano

Posts: 6417
Joined: Jul. 6 2003
From: England, living in Italy

RE: Learning the Spanish language (in reply to gerundino63)

quote:

Wil je Simon een dikke knuffel van me geven voor het geweldige werk wat hij voor iedereen op het forum doet? groetjes,

We are seperated, so I'll take a guess:

Will you give Simon a ....... from me for all the terrible (!!?) work he has done for everyone on the forum? groetjes being little groets

How'd I do?

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 21 2004 20:34:11

Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: Learning the Spanish language (in reply to Phil)

Phil,
Past tenses were always my weakness in Spanish.
I used to try to get round it by using the form "he hablado con... or he vivido en...or
he tocado en...." LOL!
Someone once told me that Spanish is a language of verbs, I really think that is true.
My old boss who was a language expert (Professor of Linguistics) always said to me to try to learn at least ten new words a day and that vocabulary had priority over grammar.
He always said that it's no good having fancy tenses and everything if you don't know what the damn thing's called!
So I smiled at Dave's example about the frog.
Well frog is an important word. All words are important.
Even "My aunt has a red pen"
What I used to do was, when I was waiting for a bus, look around the street and test myself if I knew the word for everything I saw.
Same when I was at work.
"Destornillador" is a good word, you may think it stupid and unimportant until the day you need one. LOL!

Ron

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 21 2004 20:37:38

Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: Learning the Spanish language (in reply to Escribano)

"Will you give Simon a "Dyke Nuffel" for all the work he's done on the Forum."

If you've never had a "Dyke Nuffel" before then you don't know what life's about yet!

Ron

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 21 2004 20:55:22

Escribano

Posts: 6417
Joined: Jul. 6 2003
From: England, living in Italy

RE: Learning the Spanish language (in reply to Ron.M)

quote:

Past tenses were always my weakness in Spanish.

Tell me about it. Apparently, I am the first to person speak French in the Past Historic

.

I get by with "Tomorrow, I go to the beach", "Yesterday, I go to the beach", "Today, I go to the beach", "You go to the beach with me, yes?".

When you live in another country (even the US), a bit of mimicry, a good accent and a passion for the life is the way to go. The rest may follow.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 21 2004 21:15:31

gerundino63

Posts: 1743
Joined: Jul. 11 2003
From: The Netherlands

RE: Learning the Spanish language (in reply to Escribano)

well done Simon!

translate: Can you give Simon a big hug from me, for the terrific job he is doing for everyone on the forum
greetings, Peter.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 21 2004 21:57:56

Escribano

Posts: 6417
Joined: Jul. 6 2003
From: England, living in Italy

RE: Learning the Spanish language (in reply to gerundino63)

See, my tenses let me down again

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 21 2004 22:03:13

Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: Learning the Spanish language (in reply to Escribano)

Ah!, but the "Dyke Nuffels"....
Well, I never experienced them until I got to Brazil!
Total culture shock!
Nuff sed!
Although, there was this great guy called Charlie, an absoulutely brilliant Louisiana guy who was completelety over-the-top "camp" and maybe "a wee bit Gay" as we like to say in Scotland!
Anyway Charlie liked to look for the "Diike Nuffels" when he was on his free time!
Lord love him!

Ron

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 21 2004 22:11:23

Phil

Posts: 382
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Rota, Spain

RE: Learning the Spanish language (in reply to Billyboy)

quote:

Past tenses were always my weakness in Spanish.
I used to try to get round it by using the form "he hablado con... or he vivido en...or
he tocado en...."

Well, Ron, that's a perfectly acceptable way to talk about the past, it may not always be the absolutely 'correct' way, but at least you're conveying the idea of a past event. The other day I heard an American, who has been living here in town, (he's not connected with the US Naval Base) and associating with Spaniards for at least 6 years, say, "Yo vamanos a mi casa hora." He can't even conjugate a verb in the simple present tense.

Now that just shows a complete lack of desire to learn or is an example of extreme laziness. Americans, in general, are notorious for their inability to speak other languages (there are some valid reasons for this). I'm not sure if Brits share that same 'mala fama'. The most important thing is that you have to want to learn. Anyone that really wants to learn another language, and puts forth the effort, can do it.
Phil

This thread has motivated me to break out the books and review those verb tenses again.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 22 2004 0:18:06

Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: Learning the Spanish language (in reply to Phil)

quote:

Americans, in general, are notorious for their inability to speak other languages

In a pratical history of Englishmen abroad, it was a required function of the person to
shout loudly in English if the native did not understand.
So I do not think Americans hold a patent on that concept

Ron!

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 22 2004 0:35:30

Ted G

Posts: 56
Joined: Jul. 19 2003

RE: Learning the Spanish language (in reply to Billyboy)

Billyboy,
I can relate. I've taken many Spanish classes as well as acquired many learning materials and still lack skills in conversing in Spanish. So you might find the attached link inspiring. At least it's an interesting read. Hope it helps.

http://www.finefretted.com/html/how___why_of_languages.html

Ted G

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 22 2004 4:48:22

Billyboy

Posts: 389
Joined: Aug. 18 2003

RE: Learning the Spanish language (in reply to Ron.M)

quote:

Dyke Nuffels sounds like a lesbian

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 22 2004 12:10:37

bailoro2000

Posts: 93
Joined: Jul. 7 2003

RE: Learning the Spanish language (in reply to Billyboy)

Ain't no magic wands Billyboy. I spent 5 years at night school and have continued learning ever since. No pain, no gain. It's well worth it in the end though, so keep at it.

There was a course about at one time called "Hugo's Spanish at the wheel" Two cassettes that you listened to whilst driving, and a few reminder cards. I'd recommend it or something like it. Thing to remember is that Spaniards respect you for trying and will usually be very helpful as long as you can laugh at your own mistakes. A good tip is to try and get children's books in Spanish. That's how kids learn and it's a good way to start. Best of luck.

(Si a Roma fueres, haz come vieres) When in Rome, etc....

Jim.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 22 2004 12:56:09

sbarnard

Posts: 75
Joined: Jul. 6 2003
From: Marengo, IL, EE UU

RE: Learning the Spanish language (in reply to Phil)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil

Americans, in general, are notorious for their inability to speak other languages (there are some valid reasons for this).

I lived in Germany for two years when I was 18 and only knew the what was needed: Ein bier bitter!

Really, the only thing that was on my mind at the time was getting drunk or getting... well, let's not go there.

Most Americans have trouble with English, let alone another language. I have found that I learned more English grammer taking Spanish classes than I did in English classes when I was a kid. Maybe it was a comparison thing, I donno.

Scott

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 22 2004 14:29:31

Billyboy

Posts: 389
Joined: Aug. 18 2003

RE: Learning the Spanish language (in reply to Billyboy)

The Spanish are as bad as us Brits at learning a foriegn language, also I met a classical guitarist called Stephan Gondrola, or something similar, and he said he went to Granada where he lives, not speaking a word, and could speak it fluent within a couple of years, I have always fancied going there myself, and sitting in on dance classes, but my lack of language skills is a massive barrier.
Dave

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 22 2004 17:36:41

Paco E.

Posts: 70
Joined: Nov. 16 2003
From: Wieringerwerf, Holland

RE: Learning the Spanish language (in reply to Phil)

Phil,

Do you know why the dutch people speak so many languages?

An American has maybe the biggest country, America.

The dutch has the biggest foreign country(s)

Thats why

Ed

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 22 2004 19:25:38

Escribano

Posts: 6417
Joined: Jul. 6 2003
From: England, living in Italy

RE: Learning the Spanish language (in reply to Paco E.)

Not forgetting that New York was once called New Amsterdam, of course, and that you had a fair chunk of the East Indies (I think we went to war a few times over that one)

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 22 2004 19:32:16

Billyboy

Posts: 389
Joined: Aug. 18 2003

RE: Learning the Spanish language (in reply to Paco E.)

The Dutch are amazing at languages, its because so many people from all over Europe pass through, where I live and probably Ron, you never see a French, Spanish person from one year to the next.
Dave

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 22 2004 19:45:53

Paco E.

Posts: 70
Joined: Nov. 16 2003
From: Wieringerwerf, Holland

RE: Learning the Spanish language (in reply to Billyboy)

Billyboy,

Do you know what I am doing here right now?

Improving my english. LOL

Ed

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 22 2004 19:47:39

Paco E.

Posts: 70
Joined: Nov. 16 2003
From: Wieringerwerf, Holland

RE: Learning the Spanish language (in reply to Billyboy)

Does somebody speak German here? (except from Gerondine63, because he's my brother in law.

Ed

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 22 2004 19:51:21

Paco E.

Posts: 70
Joined: Nov. 16 2003
From: Wieringerwerf, Holland

RE: Learning the Spanish language (in reply to Billyboy)

Simon,

The Dutch did a bad job in the Indonesia.
It is still a trauma.

And of course New York was first Nieuw Amsterdam, grounded by Peter Stuyvesant. (from the sigarettes)

The Dutch sold it to the English, for a few thousant, I think.

Potverdorie het stomste wat ze hadden kunnen doen, de ezels.

Ed

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 22 2004 19:55:17

Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: Learning the Spanish language (in reply to Billyboy)

Actually Dave, the Oil Industry opened up the N.E of Scotland.
Even in my little village, the couple who live across the road from me are French (He's a Diver with Occidental) and the guy two doors up from me is Dutch!
There are also various German, Italian and Norwegian families here!
(I don't know of any Spanish folk though.)
But I do agree, the Dutch are amazing at languages.
In fact it was only after talking to Rudy, (the Dutch guy) for about 10 mins did I notice a slight accent....I thought he was maybe from Inverness!
It put's us to shame.

cheers

Ron

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 22 2004 20:28:15

Billyboy

Posts: 389
Joined: Aug. 18 2003

RE: Learning the Spanish language (in reply to Paco E.)

ja spreche ich deutsches wenig, aber nur wan sie langsam sprechen. Or something, I love the German language, I can get my tongue round the words, although not a great lover of the people.
Dave

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 22 2004 20:48:55