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Aches and Pains   You are logged in as Guest
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Stu

Posts: 2561
Joined: Jan. 30 2007
From: London (the South of it), England

Aches and Pains 
Hello folks
I have been playing some kind of guitar for about 10 years and for the last three and a bit I have been solely studying flamenco.

This last three years has been the most enjoyable guitar playing time I have experienced and am still loving learning more and more about flamenco. However I have recently started developing some horrible dull back pains during and after my practice.

I am right handed and the pains seems to be occuring just below my right shoulder blade.

I immediately thought my posture must be getting bad but it's the same kind of sitting position I've always used, I haven't really changed it.

I have tried changing the chair I use but that doesn't seem to help.

Lately I have been stepping up my practice and focusing a lot on technical exercises which obviously involves a lot of repetition.
Could this be the cause of the problem?

I have been considering getting a copy of "The healthy guitarist" book, available on the flamenco world website.
Any one got it and got anything good or bad to say about it?

Any help would be great.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 18 2007 11:17:05
 
guitarbuddha

 

Posts: 2970
Joined: Jan. 4 2007
 

RE: Aches and Pains (in reply to Stu) 
Hi Man, I am sorry you are experiencing pain.
I've had a lot of pain in the past but I've been pain free for around four years.
It sounds like you are probaly grabbing onto the guitar too hard and possibly pushing down on it. If your posture is poor then you may be using your shoulder to do the work of your back ( holding you up ).

If you can you should practice in front of a mirror. Try getting ready to play and checking in the mirror that your right shoulder is not too much lower than your left. Then start to play for a few seconds, check the mirror. If you look out of shape ( and you will ) then stop and let your body work out how to relax again ( try not to figit ). Repeat this several times, and you should learn a lot about your habits.

Before and after you play why not warm up your neck, back and arms. In that order. Youl learn to do this well at a Yoga or Tai Chi class.

This will make the muscles a little more resistant to the abuse of improper use.

You should aim to get rid of unnessecary tension in inappropriate parts of the body ( clenching your spine doesnt make your fingers stronger. ) The face making which is such a big part of rock guitar is a bad idea too.

When we are young we can misuse our body and it recovers so quickly that we never experience any pain. As you get older a new pain can be caused by an old problem or simply through an increase in practice which tips the scales against recovery. Unfortunately once you have a repeated strain injury it wont go away through rest you need to relearn to use that muscle group in your playing more eficiently and to rest it when it is not needed.


I'm glad that you are enjoying your flamenco. You could see this time whilst you are working on changing the way you play as an opportunity to improve your playing. The more complicated the music you are playing the more likely you are to revert to your habitual way of playing ( which leads to pain ) so try and work on simple excercises slowly .

You may find that as you go to make your first right hand stroke your shoulder stiffens. Now you wont notice this unless you are stopping a lot and listening to your body. But it will be this holding stiff of the muscles in question, throhought an entire practice session, which your body dislikes.

Good luck and have patience.

David.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 18 2007 12:26:01
 
Stu

Posts: 2561
Joined: Jan. 30 2007
From: London (the South of it), England

RE: Aches and Pains (in reply to Stu) 
Thanks very much.
Some good advice in there.
I will get my big morror out again. I used to use it but have neglected it for some time.

Also, When I started learning flamenco guitar the other thing I wanted to get into was tai chi, but I never did, so its funny you should mention that.

Maybe I will finally give it a shot.

thanks again
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 18 2007 13:43:28
 
guitarbuddha

 

Posts: 2970
Joined: Jan. 4 2007
 

RE: Aches and Pains (in reply to Stu) 
Looks like you've got the right attitude. I am sure that you will do well.

Perhaps one more piece of advice, since you were so gracious in considering my other suggestions, how about counting out loud as you play. Not only to help you focus on compass but also because to count OUT LOUD, you have to be breathing freely. When we are breathing freely a lot of other problems kind of fade away. Singing is even better, you can tell a lot about how you are using your body just by the tone of your voice. Rich full voice (spoken or singing ), good posture hollow sounding and short of breath then try and get it sounding more relaxed and full and the posture will change naturally.

The Tai Chi is a good idea, we guitarists can be a pretty sedentary bunch and out bodies have got more sympathy for climbing trees than playing the guitar.

Cheers

David.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 18 2007 13:52:25
 
duende

Posts: 3053
Joined: Dec. 15 2003
From: Sweden

RE: Aches and Pains (in reply to Stu) 
i`ve just had one week with pain in my neck/shoulderblade.
you know i´ve been playing since i was 13 (not flamenco though) and now im 31.
i have come to expect to have some pain somwhere a few times a year.

Henrik

_____________________________

This is hard stuff!
Don't give up...
And don't make it a race.
Enjoy the ray of sunshine that comes with every new step in knowledge.

RON
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 18 2007 13:59:41
 
Stu

Posts: 2561
Joined: Jan. 30 2007
From: London (the South of it), England

RE: Aches and Pains (in reply to Stu) 
Buddha:
The "not breathing" thing is a classic.
I think I am guilty of that in more than just my guitar playing.
Anything where I am concentrating alot this seems to be a prob.
Counting out loud will be good for my compas too I guess.

Henrik:
I guess we have to suffer a little for our art then? If thats the case then I can deal with it. just dont want to do any lasting damge.

thanks
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 18 2007 15:39:35
 
duende

Posts: 3053
Joined: Dec. 15 2003
From: Sweden

RE: Aches and Pains (in reply to Stu) 
pain is never good. if it´s realy bad you should lay off for awhile.
thats a fine line.

i do areobic exersices 2 days a week to keep my body in some sort of shap at all.
it realy help any guitar practice you do. you can focus longer, need less rest cause you wont be getting as much back pains and **** if your fit.

of course it´s never good to do anything over a long period of time.

_____________________________

This is hard stuff!
Don't give up...
And don't make it a race.
Enjoy the ray of sunshine that comes with every new step in knowledge.

RON
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 18 2007 17:27:28
 
srshea

Posts: 833
Joined: Oct. 29 2006
From: Olympia, WA in the Great Pacific Northwest

RE: Aches and Pains (in reply to Stu) 
Manzmann,

I’ve had all kinds of nerve/muscular back problems for years, upper, lower, middle, shoulder: you name it, I’ve had it. I’ve also tried just about every chiropractic/acupuncture/electric-needle-stabbing approach out there, and I’ve learned that with some stuff you just gotta deal with it and learn how to live with it. My own humble suggestion is to put the guitar down every fifteen minutes or so when you’re practicing and get up, walk around, gently stretch, shake it out, etc. just for a minute or so before sitting back down and getting back to work. Not a miracle cure by any means, but I do find this to be really helpful and surprisingly effective for such a simple thing. Also, in general I find that breaking my practice up into half a dozen fifteen minute chunks with 60-90 second breaks keeps me a lot more focused/refreshed/stronger and more productive than I would be just trying to grind through a non-stop hour and a half. Oh, and I do take a day off from the guitar once a week, and I think that helps a lot for me too. Anyway, this is all pretty simple, common sense stuff so I hope I’m not stating the obvious, but the above has, for me, been really helpful in keeping the ‘ol back and shoulder situation in a manageable condition.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 18 2007 20:23:48
 
Georg

Posts: 405
Joined: Feb. 5 2006
From: Germany

RE: Aches and Pains (in reply to Stu) 
I guess a lot of guitarists have these pains. Even Paco mentioned it in an interview.

I think the flamenco way to hold your guitar is not the best posture for your shoulders. I do the same as srshea to get rid of it. Sometimes it works.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 19 2007 9:48:50
 
Stu

Posts: 2561
Joined: Jan. 30 2007
From: London (the South of it), England

RE: Aches and Pains (in reply to Stu) 
Thanks very much for the input guys.
Some good advice and assurance that these probs are part and parcel of playing.
As you say srshea, some of it is stating the obvious but I sometimes forget these obvious things when I'm wrapped up in my practice. I'll keep it all in mind.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 19 2007 20:02:49
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