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Juan Martin
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Ricardo
Posts: 15165
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC
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RE: Juan Martin (in reply to r0bbie)
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quote:
and I see that the guy playing it is using the exact same techniques. Uh oh! Before the action gets started, let me say, it is not the "techinques" themselves that is the issue, rather, the way they are used. Does that make sense? That is the thing you need to learn to distinguish to develop your "tastes" for the art. In the mean time, it is exactly that, which becomes the "arguement". No one says Juan does not do rasgueado, or tremolo, or picado (techniques of playing flamenco), rather, the WAY he does it. Hope you follow? OK, I am out of here!!
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Date Feb. 16 2007 22:32:12
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srshea
Posts: 833
Joined: Oct. 29 2006
From: Olympia, WA in the Great Pacific Northwest
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RE: Juan Martin (in reply to r0bbie)
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Hi Rob, I think the old adage that “you don’t need to be a great player to be a good teacher” applies here. Applies to Dennis Koster too: as a Flamenco player- not so hot, but his books are an excellent learning resource for beginners. I think most folks here would agree that Martin’s teaching material is very good to start learning with, it’s just that when it comes to judging him as a player at the world-class level, especially considering his level of fame and notoriety in the Flamenco world, a lot/many/most/all-but-a-few(?) people here feel that he doesn’t measure up, which in the end has pretty much nothing to do with whether or not his teaching books/dvds are any good. All the Flamenco methods out there have their strengths and weaknesses and I think Martin’s is just as good as any of the others available (the ones that I’ve tried myself, of course). I’m about halfway through is El Arte Flamenco series, and of all the materials that I’ve been using I feel that I’ve probably gotten the most out of his stuff, so far. Anyway, bottom line point is that if you’ve already got his book or dvd or whatever I can’t see any reason why you shouldn’t work through it, dig out the good stuff, and then move on to the next thing. I can’t imagine that there’s any danger of you learning any improper technique from his book that will harm your playing in the future, if that’s what you’re worried about.
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Date Feb. 17 2007 0:03:34
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legrec
Posts: 248
Joined: Jan. 26 2006
From: France
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RE: Juan Martin (in reply to JasonM)
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quote:
Excuse me Senor Martin, could you explain that?? Actually I thought the same in almost all the vids... Except perhaps the Herrero series. The first one i had was Moraito. The sort of thing which makes you want to quit in 5 minutes... Seems the guys are in a hurry and have a plane to take.. "And now alzapua full speed, because i'm off to Rio de Janeiro" But for sure it's too long to explain everything and their media are full of time/space constraints (vids or books). So they assume that the audience will have some basis or will do some researchs... When i teach at the university, i simply don't have the time to start from scratch, even if there are some poor students who are beginners in the field... But this "fight" with a hard material/teaching is also very good for the teaching process I believe. And Yes, for the "several" methods thing. But, don't make my mistake Rob : I grabbed so much methods, transcriptions, etc I was changing palo/song each 15 minutes. So I wasn't able (and i'm not much more now) to play one palo correctly, and to understand all it's complex aspects. So i guess a good behavior would be to have two or three methods and also two transcription books (and for sure a teacher, as long as it's possible). Not too few, not too much... Suerte y salud-
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Date Feb. 17 2007 1:15:36
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Guest
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RE: Juan Martin (in reply to Florian)
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quote:
but i bet 1 million bucs there will be atlist 100 replies on this tread and ill be here to add a running commentry on all the highlights of the thread
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Date Feb. 17 2007 2:07:00
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Guest
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RE: Juan Martin (in reply to Guest)
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quote:
Here come the vultures MWUHAHAHAAAH !! Yeah and it looks like you and Ricardo are the first to hit the carcass! Hey dont worry people, theres plenty to go around for everyone! Incidently whos firefingers?
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Date Feb. 17 2007 3:37:24
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legrec
Posts: 248
Joined: Jan. 26 2006
From: France
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RE: Juan Martin (in reply to r0bbie)
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Rob, Let me share with you my beginner's experience : I started, like lots of people, by saying and thinking exactly what you've said. BUT, after three-four years of playing, I painfully realized in several occasions (and in this foro) that I was still a TOTAL beginner in flamenco, after all these longs months of work and efforts. So, the question is : do you want to be in some "always stuck at beginner level" relation with flamenco ?? The point that is central here is that a very large amount of what makes flamenco great to listen and play, is rhythm, compas and palo structure ! It's fun because it's fast, complex, groovy, syncopated, etc. So, if you like the music, you can't really dislike or neglect the compas and rythm... And the problem is that when you begin by ignoring the rythm, as I made it myself, it's very very hard to get back, like Ricardo said. So one day you pay the bill, and it's rather annoying because you could have avoided that bill rather easily... And about the "i won't show my playing or play with others". Look, you've already said you wanted to make an upload ! Believe me, I was thinking the same, but after several years of pratice, you WANT to express your music to others, and even if you don't want it, you'll be placed into situation where you play with others (it can be also with your family, friends, teacher, foroflamenco mates, etc. ). It's not a "i wanna be a star or a pro" thing. It's just that music take sense in sharing with people. When you'll be advanced enought to feel this, you will know... I'm now ashamed and frustrated because i'm a full beginner after several years of playing ! Just because I'm not being able to hold a simple compas. On the other aspects of guitar playing, i think i can do some things right. But everywhere in flamenco land, and in my own opinion by listening to records, the truth is I'm still a total beginner. And it's not really pleasing. Please, manage to avoid this boring situation by giving a little attention to compas. That is not to say giving up everything but compas, it's just trying to invest yourself 50/50 : note, techniques, musicallity / compas, palos structures... My 1 cent Saludos-
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Date Feb. 17 2007 14:47:16
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