Neck/Action Adjustments

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NeZ

Posts: 96
Joined: Feb. 14 2007

Neck/Action Adjustments

I have a 1997 Burguet model 3a.

The action is a bit higher than I'd like at the 12th Fret.

Several years ago the store where I purchased it did a saddle adjustment which helped some but didn't totally fix the problem.

Without a truss rod as steel string acoustics have, what are the options for making action adjustments after the nut and saddle have been tried?

Am I just stuck with the string height where it is?

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 16 2007 16:45:15

Jim Opfer

Posts: 1876
Joined: Jul. 19 2003
From: Glasgow, Scotland.

RE: Neck/Action Adjustments (in reply to NeZ)

It depends how serious you feel about this.
A good luthier will be able to plane down the ebony from the 12th fret back up to the nut inorder to re-fret and re-set the action. It might be that the work won't be too hard to do but it's a professional job.
Best also to find a maker who has experience in flamencos as classical makers might not understand what you are looking for.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 16 2007 17:55:47

stephen hill

Posts: 300
Joined: Feb. 16 2004
From: La Herradura, Granada, Spain

RE: Neck/Action Adjustments (in reply to NeZ)

you need to check how much saddle is above the slot on the bridge, if there is some left and the break angle is still good you can still lower this. A good guitar maker, as jim suggests, one who knows flamencos should be able to get things right.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 16 2007 18:22:07

JasonM

Posts: 2065
Joined: Dec. 8 2005
From: Baltimore

RE: Neck/Action Adjustments (in reply to stephen hill)

What is a good break angle for a flamenco. For all fixed bridge instruments it doesn't even look like there is any break angle. Like 5 %?

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 16 2007 21:06:49

Anders Eliasson

Posts: 5780
Joined: Oct. 18 2006

RE: Neck/Action Adjustments (in reply to NeZ)

Nez

What is the problem? Do you want the strings closer to the frets?
In this case the two options that has been mentioned are what you have.

1) lowering the bridge saddle..

2) if you cant, refret and plane (sand) the fingerboard. Do as Jim sais if you want the strings higher at the bridge and the opposite if you want them lower.

A trussrod is not for changing neck angle, but for adjusting relief.... Changing neckangle with the truss rod gives poor playability....

Jason. I find that 20 - 30 degrees are a good breakangle.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 17 2007 8:45:43

NeZ

Posts: 96
Joined: Feb. 14 2007

RE: Neck/Action Adjustments (in reply to Anders Eliasson)

Hi Anders,

The problem is the strings at mid-neck and up are higher off the neck than I'd like. I want them closer to the frets if possible.

I'll have to take a look at the bridge saddle and see if there's any more room to lower it.

The other options seem like probably more work and expense than it's worth for this guitar.

It still plays fine but it's not ideal.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 19 2007 15:39:44

Anders Eliasson

Posts: 5780
Joined: Oct. 18 2006

RE: Neck/Action Adjustments (in reply to NeZ)

How straight is the neck?
If you put a short straight edge from fret 1 to 12 and look underneath how much space do you have at 5th and 7th fret? This is called the relief and its what you adjust with a truss rod.

Un saludo
Anders

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 19 2007 16:29:28

NeZ

Posts: 96
Joined: Feb. 14 2007

RE: Neck/Action Adjustments (in reply to Anders Eliasson)

I'll give that a try tonight.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 19 2007 17:54:50

NeZ

Posts: 96
Joined: Feb. 14 2007

RE: Neck/Action Adjustments (in reply to NeZ)

Anders,

I tried the straight edge measurement you suggested and the neck appears to be straight. I put the straight edge at various places on the neck and there were no gaps underneath it wherever it was placed.

I also looked at the bridge saddle and there's not much material left for adjustments. The white plastic part of the saddle is probably only about 1/8" or so, if that, above the wood portion.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 20 2007 14:51:30

Per Hallgren

Posts: 241
Joined: Jul. 1 2006
From: Sweden

RE: Neck/Action Adjustments (in reply to NeZ)

Not all straight edges are straight or at hand but every guitar has six that are always there and guaranteed for straightness. Just press a string at two frets and read the gap between string and neck (or the frets rather) between these two frets. For example, press the string at 1st fret and 13th to check the whole neck.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 20 2007 15:22:37

Anders Eliasson

Posts: 5780
Joined: Oct. 18 2006

RE: Neck/Action Adjustments (in reply to NeZ)

Yes of course. I forgot that....

You are not totally right, they are not there when you take the strings of or before you finish the instrument. I guess thats why I forgot to mention the strings, because I work a lot of guitars without strings on.

NeZ
Then the problem is not that the neck has warped. There´s an option of shaving a milimeter or so of the bridge. It depends on 2 factors:

How high is the bridge and how steep is the breakangle of the string over the saddle.

Anders

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 20 2007 17:53:19

Per Hallgren

Posts: 241
Joined: Jul. 1 2006
From: Sweden

RE: Neck/Action Adjustments (in reply to Anders Eliasson)

Anders, I didn't try to correct you. It was just a tip for all guitarists that forget their straight edge going for the gig.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 20 2007 19:57:18

Anders Eliasson

Posts: 5780
Joined: Oct. 18 2006

RE: Neck/Action Adjustments (in reply to NeZ)

Hejsan Per
I did not feel corrected at all

and you are completely right... And besides relief should be tested with strings on, because a lot of guitars, especially those without neck reinforcement change relief with different string tensions.

You know sometimes we all forget the easiest solutions, but I also check relief using the "string straightedge" There are no better way...

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 21 2007 8:05:33

NeZ

Posts: 96
Joined: Feb. 14 2007

RE: Neck/Action Adjustments (in reply to Anders Eliasson)

Hi Anders,

I did a couple more measurements on my guitar.

I checked out your website (very nice looking guitars, by the way) and saw that you set your Flamencos up with 3mm or so string height at the 12th fret.

I measured mine (with admittedly inaccurate tools) and it looks like my classical is somewhere in the 5.5mm range for string height at the 12th fret, give or take a mm or so due to my measuring tools.

What's the average or standard height for Classicals? Maybe mine isn't so far out of whack as I thought.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 27 2007 16:30:34

Anders Eliasson

Posts: 5780
Joined: Oct. 18 2006

RE: Neck/Action Adjustments (in reply to NeZ)

Classicals... Well, it depends on the player.. Between 3,7 and 4,5 is the normal. I´d say a standard is 4mm.

5,5 mm is high.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 27 2007 17:20:01