Asian Flamenco

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Asian Flamenco

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Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

Asian Flamenco

I think this wee band is wonderful!
Some great playing there.

They just look really miserable, like they hate every minute of it!

cheers

Ron

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 9 2007 21:27:24

Jim Opfer

Posts: 1876
Joined: Jul. 19 2003
From: Glasgow, Scotland.

RE: Asian Flamenco (in reply to Ron.M)

Any links Ron?

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 9 2007 21:31:58

Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: Asian Flamenco (in reply to Jim Opfer)

Sorry Jim!

I've edited the post.

They have a really great "groove", but look really miserable like it was a punishment or something.

(Maybe it's the Asian "inscrutibilty" thing??)

cheers

Ron

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 9 2007 21:43:30

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 9 2007 22:29:51

Arash

Posts: 4495
Joined: Aug. 9 2006
From: Iran (living in Germany)

RE: Asian Flamenco (in reply to Ron.M)

I think they play very good.

I bet if they just upload audio instead of video, then they would recieve 4 or 5 stars instead of the 2 stars rating in youtube.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 10 2007 1:52:32

Mark2

Posts: 1872
Joined: Jul. 12 2004
From: San Francisco

RE: Asian Flamenco (in reply to Ron.M)

Wow! I really enjoyed seeing those young players working out those PdL falsetas. I liked how they shared the lead. The palmas guy is in need of a little swing, but it's so great to see the impact that that music is having on guitarists everywhere. It makes me feel like I wasn't crazy when I blasted the volume on that Fuente y Cauldal record a thousand times!

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 10 2007 4:13:06

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 10 2007 7:17:07

Doitsujin

Posts: 5078
Joined: Apr. 10 2005

RE: Asian Flamenco (in reply to Ron.M)

The beginning is bad. But arounf 4min, they have some good moments. They could play the tango a bit faster. It would make it a lot better. But its good.
By the way, I wouldnt put it into a category like "asian flamenco". Thats bad. Its just have to be called "flamenco", or world music. Yes,..come on.. in real flamenco is world music.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 10 2007 14:16:42

DavidT

Posts: 181
Joined: Mar. 17 2005
From: Seattle, Washington, USA

RE: Asian Flamenco (in reply to Guest)

Come on now,

no more asian bashing!!!
It's the asian looks. What can you expect? Just go back and look all classical/flamenco performance live they're all the same. You dont jump up and down like rockandroll do you?

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 10 2007 15:14:20

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 10 2007 16:13:59

JBASHORUN

Posts: 1839
Joined: Jan. 23 2005

RE: Asian Flamenco (in reply to Ron.M)

Mmm. Just because you may LOOK like you're not enjoying a performance on the outside, doesn't mean that INSIDE you aren't enjoying it in reality.

But if you really aren't then its time to re-consider playing it in the first place.

Jb

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 10 2007 18:10:51

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 10 2007 18:40:34

JBASHORUN

Posts: 1839
Joined: Jan. 23 2005

RE: Asian Flamenco (in reply to Ron.M)

Well, like was said above... if there was no video to accompany the audio, I think the response would have been better.

Personally most of my music (Flamenco AND otherwise) is on CDs, so I can't really tell what the musicians look like when they play.

But I still enjoy them, even though I can't see them.

So maybe Youtube was the wrong place for their upload.

Jb

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 10 2007 18:47:54

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 10 2007 19:34:16

Ricardo

Posts: 14835
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Asian Flamenco (in reply to Guest)

Asian or not has nothing to do with it. They all appear nervous, not so secure about their technique and stuff. The playing is "carefull" but not bad really. Looks like a student recital. Only one palmero? Por guy. Comparing to Yerbabuena, that is not fair man.

Speaking of that vid of Yerbabuena, man I get annoyed how often dance accomp guitarists are never given enough volume. You can barely hear the strumming, but the falsetas sound like a little fly getting swatted by palmas and feet. The overall impact would be much stronger if the guitar is brought up. This is typical, and even when it is obvious, no one in the group listens or cares so you have palmas going smack smack, dancer stomp stomp, and the singers yelling. I know that is part of the feeling, to be loud, but all the time? Sorry for the off topic.

Ricardo

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 10 2007 20:21:40

Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: Asian Flamenco (in reply to JBASHORUN)

quote:

so I can't really tell what the musicians look like when they play.

Yeah Bash...
I'd much prefer hear Julian Bream play rather than watch.
Always makes me think that the guy's had a bad curry (or Kebab) the night before and it's just suddenly caught up with him and he can't wait to get to the end of the piece.

cheers

Ron

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 10 2007 20:24:00

Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: Asian Flamenco (in reply to Ricardo)

quote:

The playing is "carefull" but not bad really

Hi Ricardo,
I think that's what kinda charms me about it.
There seems to be a great amount of respect given to the music as passed down, which you don't hear too often in "foreign" Flamenco, which sometimes seems too eager to stamp it's own personality upon it, maybe after only a year or two's study listening to CD's at home etc...after spending the previous 6 years listening to and playing Thrash Metal...

The visual effect is really dire though!

More like a bloody Wake than a Juerga IMO...

Nice stuff though in places.

cheers

Ron

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 10 2007 20:35:50

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 10 2007 20:50:50

Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: Asian Flamenco (in reply to Guest)

quote:

there is something nice about their playing that comes from a great respect for the material. But to say being asian has nothing to do with it is absurd. Is it possible for asians to play very flamenco-

I totally agree Rom...it's what we feel in our Souls and do with our hands that really counts.

The reason I titled the thing "Asian Flamenco" is because folk title stuff "Icelandic Flamenco" or "Scottish Flamenco" etc... just to let you know where it's coming from.

Actually I used that title only because of the Americans here...that's the term you guys seem to use, although it seemed strange to me at first.

Here in the UK we'd call them "Chinese" people... (even though they may not be)
"Asian" people here are folk mainly from India and Pakistan.

Anyway...who cares!

I love other people's cultures and have never had a problem with that.
I'm sure I'd have a whale of a time with those guys with our common connection of Flamenco.

cheers

Ron

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 10 2007 21:06:16

JasonM

Posts: 2058
Joined: Dec. 8 2005
From: Baltimore

RE: Asian Flamenco (in reply to Guest)

Yeah I found this "charming" . thats a good word for it. I liked the bulerias too where the girl is just taping the accents on the cajon. I don't know why, but I the I find watching the Japanese play flamenco to be really interesting.

I actually thought the palmero was part of the entertainment. What are you guys talking about?

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 10 2007 21:06:36

JBASHORUN

Posts: 1839
Joined: Jan. 23 2005

RE: Asian Flamenco (in reply to Ron.M)

quote:

Here in the UK we'd call them "Chinese" people... (even though they may not be)
"Asian" people here are folk mainly from India and Pakistan.

I think "Oriental" is the prefered term. I've met some non-Chinese Oriental people, and they were quite offended at being labelled Chinese. Ron, its a bit like a foreigner calling you an Englishman!!!

Jb

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 10 2007 21:13:23

Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: Asian Flamenco (in reply to JBASHORUN)

quote:

I think "Oriental" is the prefered term. I've met some non-Chinese Oriental people, and they were quite offended at being labelled Chinese. Ron, its a bit like a foreigner calling you an Englishman!!!

That's the word I was searching for Bash!

Still, I suppose it's better than being called "chinky" as our beloved Prince Philip (the Greek) husband of the Queen prefers to use.

Outside the borders of Scotland, I'm just used to being referred to as"The Jock"....

cheers

Ron

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 10 2007 21:23:06

koella

Posts: 2194
Joined: Sep. 10 2005
From: holland

RE: Asian Flamenco (in reply to Ron.M)

When I see those Japanese ( or whatever..) I am very surprised that they go through all the trouble to learn this tiny, very difficult segment of western civilisation.

Imagine us putting all that time in learning to play the Koto and live the Japanese culture.

Chapeau! They have discipline !

Btw. I read in an interview with Paco Pena that, of all foreigners, Japanese people are the ones that come closest to the real flamenco spirit when it comes to playing guitar. Due to their "no nonsense-discipline" attitude.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 10 2007 21:39:57

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 10 2007 21:40:04

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 10 2007 21:41:16

koella

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Joined: Sep. 10 2005
From: holland

RE: Asian Flamenco (in reply to Ron.M)

What are you talking about Romerito.
This is just one video on you tube.
Wanna see all the "bad" flamenco on you tube from spanish people ?

Don't judge Asian flamenco on one video fragment.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 10 2007 21:43:27

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 10 2007 21:45:03

legrec

Posts: 248
Joined: Jan. 26 2006
From: France

RE: Asian Flamenco (in reply to Guest)

quote:

There were dancers that wanted to rehearse 20 times before they would do a show for intermediate material. If you think it has absolutley nothing to do with culture go play for free for them for twenty rehearsals.

I agree Romerito, my girlfriend is Japanese also and for sure, they have a great sense of discipline and honor when it comes to work or cultural passions (the background thing is that it's a total shame if you're so-so or if you miss something. You're whole life could be affected by a failure. I must say that, in french culture, we're very very far from this way of thinking !).

But I'm not so sure about the "yuism"/"weism" thing. It's a historical tradition for Japanese (and "oriental") people to have this weism attitude, but since several decades this "lecture grid" of the society had probably lost most of his sense and power, to let the room for more individualistic thinkings and behaviors - Modeled after the north american and european ways of thinking. The process started around the 70's in Japan, when they decided to be a big economy before being a country. China had also taken the turn. With few doubts, economism and individualism are the most contagious phenomenons of the last decades. Lots of Japanese are "escaping" their country because of this contradiction (still speaking and "ritualizing" in weism, but mostly acting in yuism).

And this leads me to the point of saying that if so much Japanese loves flamenco and some are now able to go to spain and "taking the skin of gypsies" it's perhaps partly because they are now very much attracted with individualistics ways of living and thinking (it's not really individualism, it's "familialism") with also the refusal of the "strategization" of all aspects of life, which had raised to an unbelievable level in Japan now.
Flamenco is a real escape from a bunch of nonsense and psychological pression the japanese society (and I dare to say the "world village") is going into very deeply now.

And for the "so-so" scenic presence of this flamenco group, perhaps we can attribute it in a great part to their inexperience. I'm 100% "latin" (mediterranean) but put me on stage in front of 300 people now : I will glue my head to the side of the guitar and concentrate like an autist not to throw out too much false notes. For sure, the audience will laught at my "scenic presence" and the communication with the public wil be poor, to say the least.
Probably they don't have the necessary "juerga" or scenic experience to raise the head, smile, express themselves with body, voice, etc. Kinetic communication (or "body language") is not the same than linguistic communication. I believe they have learn the lingo (to play guitar) but do not have yet the "kinetics" of flamenco (the scenic attitude), that you can only learn with scenic experience...Perhaps it will come with time, no matter they're east asian..(just look at "modern" japan tv. "Show off" is a too small expression to trancribe the things they're doing).

Most of you must have seen vids of this very young spanish flamenco "prodige" (can't remember his name, his father was selling a conde on ebay recently). His playing is amazing, but his scenic presence is close to zero. "Roh-bote"

The exact opposite of this attitude for me is the bass player of Paco in Carlos Saura's movie "Flamenco". Do you have seen him ?!!! His "kinetic" communication is unbelievable - he makes one with the music and the instrument, and looks so enjoying and dominating his subject, like an old tough wolf entering a garden full of virginial sheeps...

But for sure also, Flamenco requires showing off and "extraversion" on stage (don't know if it's correct in english) and East Asian people have to overcome a lot of their cultural habits to make this "show off"...It's not easy to make a fin de fiesta with "cojones on the table" when coming from a country where saying "hey, I wasn't so bad" is a deep mark of arrogance and stupidity...

(sorry everyone for such a long post)

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 10 2007 23:16:00

Ricardo

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Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Asian Flamenco (in reply to Ron.M)

quote:

But to say being asian has nothing to do with it is absurd.

Sorry, but that is a predjudice. I have seen many nervous folk from around the world with similar stage presence do to lack of confidence. Has nothing to do with where you are from.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 11 2007 3:24:36

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