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RE: What is the essence of flamenco? (in reply to sonikete)
Sonikete, i think it would only be natural that a dancer gets into dance first and foremost a guitarist the guitar and the singer cante. What could flamenco not live without, well these days guitar. A dancer can dance without guitar but theyre not going to be able to do a 1-2 hour show on theyre own same for singing. They could, but i dought they would hold the audience the same as they would with a guitar, in fact guitar is probably the only single thing in flamenco that could do a show completly solo and still hold the audience for 1-2 hours.
Again its got to do with your own perspective, from a cultural and historical angle i aggree, cante. But this doesnt mean i place less importance on guitar. It really dissapoints me when you come accross this attitude from some dancers like your just a whipping boy or music box for them, and they feel in some way they have to assert theyre flamenconess over you and put u in your place. I know its natural and commonplace but i dont like social pecking orders of any kind.
After i posted this i realise while i was doing it the point had been covered sorry for repeating same point
RE: What is the essence of flamenco? (in reply to Guest)
quote:
Again its got to do with your own perspective, from a cultural and historical angle i aggree, cante.
I was talking from a cultural and historical perspective.
I already explained my views and clarified my position about this and this poll came from a discussion with ricardo where i said i thought that in spain cante is number one for most aficionados and outside of spain was the guitar.
So ricardo said - do a poll! And i did.
I never said that i had any disregard for sologuitar or dance, neither have i said that sologuitar isnt flamenco, or that a guitarist was in any way less worth than any of the other expressions.
All i ever said was that traditionally cante is the foundation all these other forms of expression gravitates around and that without cante they would be crippled. Nothing more or less.
RE: What is the essence of flamenco? (in reply to sonikete)
quote:
I never said that i had any disregard for sologuitar or dance, neither have i said that sologuitar isnt flamenco, or that a guitarist was in any way less worth than any of the other expressions.
I didnt thinks u did either, sorry i think i went off on a tangent about attitudes that a guitarist can come across when accompanying. I didnt mean to imply that was your attitude. I too voted 'cante' from a cultural and historical aspect.
RE: What is the essence of flamenco? (in reply to sonikete)
I guess one could argue that flamenco was never ment to become a proffessional performance art at all. It was born as a form of expression for gypsies and the poorer class, and they just happened to use it as a way to earn money as well. But in its 'pure' form it was theyre vehicle for expression and an identity. So one could argue that any proffessional flamenco no matter how good has lost its 'essence'. OOHHH **** that might open up a can of worms . I am of coure been hypothetical and subjective here.
RE: What is the essence of flamenco? (in reply to sonikete)
romerito i hope u dont mind, i just quoted u and took out a word or 2 just to make it eazyer to follow for myself
quote:
The essence of flamenco is to live from a very young age. To accept the resposibility of the flamenco way of life .
Wake up in the afternoon, play (dance or sing-whatever you do) eat lunch. Drink some beer with cousin. Take a siesta, then go for a walk and whistle at the women.
RE: What is the essence of flamenco? (in reply to sonikete)
I of course love proffesional flamenco What about the whole post punk movement? its huge but i bet sid vicious would roll over in his grave if he new how commercial it had become (incidently im not into punk and especially not post punk)
RE: What is the essence of flamenco? (in reply to ToddK)
I dont understand, r u referring to me? i already apologised for repeating same point. By the time i replied a new post i hadnt seen was there. So ill say it again, SORRY FOR REPEATING POINT is everything o.k now? merry christmas
Posts: 15725
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC
RE: What is the essence of flamenco? (in reply to sonikete)
quote:
and this poll came from a discussion with ricardo where i said i thought that in spain cante is number one for most aficionados and outside of spain was the guitar.
So ricardo said - do a poll! And i did.
Not exactly. What happened was we talked about a type of modern falseta when played in a solo, might not be considered "flamenco" where as if used in between letras of cante, it MIGHT be considered "flamenco" by some aficionados. I said you would get differing points of view. YOU said that in Spain you would get more "yes it is flamenco" answers regarding that modern falseta, in the cante context vs the solo context. My point was you would get the same differing points of view IN OR OUT OF SPAIN. So I said you should poll the people IN SPAIN ONLY to see if you are right or I am right.
This poll "essence of flamenco is..." has nothing to do with that.
Posts: 15725
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC
RE: What is the essence of flamenco? (in reply to Ricardo)
The essence of flamenco, for me, is "duende". That does not always mean that if there is no duende, it is not to be called "flamenco", but that is sort of the point of doing flamenco. Not always easy to find a performance where the "duende" is guaranted, but sometimes it gets captured on tape. Like here, everyone into flamenco would feel it watching this:
RE: What is the essence of flamenco? (in reply to Guest)
I just saw manolo carcol and remembred my old musictapes with mairena and co. I have to say, that I like the old singing much more than modern. They have some special flair. Old men well dressed and the hair waxed-back. Very very cool. No youth hang around and try to be cool. Just oldtimer.^^ I like this singing most. And in that case, its no problem that he letras are damn bad poetry. It sounds real from the mouth of these old people.
RE: What is the essence of flamenco? (in reply to Guest)
Personally, i love Camaron, Duquende and Montse Cortes as well as older heavyweights but i guess it will take a while until a new Camaron appears, so its nice to see that some in the younger generation continues the traditional cante.
Its funny Pitingo sounds like an old cantaor i play with sometimes who lives here, i like that style as well.
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sorry for repeating same point 
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