More fun (not) trying out flamenco guitars in the UK

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Jon Boyes

Posts: 1377
Joined: Jul. 10 2003

More fun (not) trying out flamenco g...

Today I asked around several guitar shops if they stocked any flamenco guitars I could try out.

Here are the reponses:

"We sometimes carry the Yamaha but we don't have any in."

"No."

"When you say 'flamenco guitar', what do you mean?"

"So you're after a straight classical guitar, right?"

I can see this is going to take some time...

Jon

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 17 2003 15:08:44

Patrick

Posts: 1189
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Portland, Oregon

RE: More fun (not) trying out flamen... (in reply to Jon Boyes)

Jon,

You should live in Oregon. Here they call them "Geeetars"

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 17 2003 15:22:27

Thomas Whiteley

Posts: 786
Joined: Jul. 8 2003
From: San Francisco Bay Area

RE: More fun (not) trying out flamen... (in reply to Patrick)

Yes and they have real steel strings that are nice and shinney when new!

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http://home.comcast.net/~flamencoguitar/flamenco.html

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 17 2003 23:28:40

Guest

RE: More fun (not) trying out flamen... (in reply to Jon Boyes)

Spanish Guitar Centre in Bristol or London?

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 18 2003 10:39:11

Jon Boyes

Posts: 1377
Joined: Jul. 10 2003

RE: More fun (not) trying out flamen... (in reply to Guest)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Guest
Spanish Guitar Centre in Bristol or London?

Yeah, I have both of them linked on my website - I bought my Valdez classical guitar from Bristol.

Its just a shame that I have to make a two hour journey just to try out a few flamenco guitars.

Jon

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 18 2003 11:36:25

Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: More fun (not) trying out flamen... (in reply to Jon Boyes)

Yeah Jon,
It's pathetic. I bet El Zurdo has more Flamenco Guitars in his shop than there are in the whole of the UK!
I had the same problem only worse...
Even an Easyjet return to London would be about £100 + taxi to airport £20.
Travel Luton/London + B&B in London + grub etc...add another £150.
+ miss basically 2 days work.
All to try a few guitars in London which may be overpriced or not very good.
I phoned Ivor Mairant's and they had 4 in stock ranging from a £1K Student model to a £4k Conde.
With you living in the South, it may be worthwhile looking into a cheap flight to Jerez
(£50 return from Stanstead)?

cheers

Ron

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 18 2003 13:20:13

Escribano

Posts: 6416
Joined: Jul. 6 2003
From: England, living in Italy

RE: More fun (not) trying out flamen... (in reply to Ron.M)

yeah.... trouble is, the market in Spain for decent guitars seems to be a bit up and down - when I ask around I get replies like so-and-so might have one in blah-blah etc. My teacher escorted a student to Madrid, Cordoba Granada and Jerez before they found one he rated highly enough to be worth buying. All the Condes they tired were awful, Bernal and Gerundino came out top for consistency. I think they went for a Gerundino.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 18 2003 14:35:09

Miguel de Maria

Posts: 3532
Joined: Oct. 20 2003
From: Phoenix, AZ

RE: More fun (not) trying out flamen... (in reply to Jon Boyes)

Buy a Vicente Carillo online from El Zurdo. If that doesn't work, then go direct and get one from Vicente. These are awesome guitars, and great bargains. When I was in Sevilla, it was better than all the other students, and even the teachers liked it. Eduardo REbollar played my Carillo for a sec, and then said, "Es porque to corres!" "This is why you run!" Fast guitar.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 18 2003 17:05:38

Jon Boyes

Posts: 1377
Joined: Jul. 10 2003

RE: More fun (not) trying out flamen... (in reply to Miguel de Maria)

Does El Zurdo live in the States? If so, the guitar will double price before it would get to me. Importing guitars from the US is pretty much a no-goer for us in the Uk due to all the taxes and stuff.

Buying direct from Spain certainly sems the better option. After all, dealers in the Uk (if you can find them) will obviously be adding their profit on and its probably more than those cheap flights Ron mentions.

Plus, the idea of going to Spain to buy a flamenco guitar is just SO cool!! Any idea how much those Carillos were in Spain, Mike?

BTW, there's an article on buying guitars in Spaion/Spanish lutherie in the January edition of Acouistic Guitar magazine. It was written by a luthier that hangs out sometimes on FT and the classical forums. Apparently all the big makers (Contreras, Conde, Ramirez etc) get all their student models built by other makers - thery just stick their label on.

If you want the real thing its built to order (and expensive, of course). This would explain the deviation in quality that Simon talks about.

The frustrating thing is that with any other type of guitar I'd be trying out loads over a period of time, making comparisons, thinking about it etc. I know that if I went to Spain I'd just have to come back with a guitar...

Jon

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 19 2003 9:12:14

Escribano

Posts: 6416
Joined: Jul. 6 2003
From: England, living in Italy

RE: More fun (not) trying out flamen... (in reply to Jon Boyes)

I haven't heard of a bad Bernal yet. Join us for the Jerez festival in March and Melchor might get you a good deal at their workshop factory.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 19 2003 11:19:20

Jon Boyes

Posts: 1377
Joined: Jul. 10 2003

RE: More fun (not) trying out flamen... (in reply to Escribano)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Simon
I haven't heard of a bad Bernal yet. Join us for the Jerez festival in March and Melchor might get you a good deal at their workshop factory.

If only! Lovely idea, but very unlikely Simon, I have a baby on the way, I'm just to about to start a new (day) job, and we are building a house extension.

ie in maths terms: house + baby + job = very busy + very poor

If I do plan a visit to Spain, it will probably be a long way off.

Just out of interest, how much dosh are we talking about here?
The only Bernal I found in the UK was a 'Prodigio' at £800:
http://www.spanishguitars.co.uk/shopguitars/shopguitars.html

Realistically, money wise I am looking at nearer half that!

Second hand might be my only hope, but in the UK, 2nd hand flamenco guitars are a bit like lesser spotted dodos.

Jon

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 19 2003 11:40:42

Guest

RE: More fun (not) trying out flamen... (in reply to Jon Boyes)

Jon.

Why not contact Danny of Stockport. He's a member here and Simon may have his e-mail address. He runs a guitar studio and knows his flamenco. He's the one who hosts
Juan Martin's workshops in Manchester. Just a thought.

Jim.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 19 2003 12:06:40

TANúñez

Posts: 2559
Joined: Jul. 10 2003
From: TEXAS

RE: More fun (not) trying out flamen... (in reply to Jon Boyes)

Hi Jon, yes I'm in the US. What about these guys www.staffordguitar.com

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www.instagram.com/tanunezguitars

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 19 2003 12:07:42

Escribano

Posts: 6416
Joined: Jul. 6 2003
From: England, living in Italy

RE: More fun (not) trying out flamen... (in reply to Jon Boyes)

Go to http://www.foroflamenco.com/showprofile.asp?memid=48 and email Danny

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 19 2003 13:27:29

Melchor

Posts: 87
Joined: Sep. 1 2003
From: Jeré

RE: More fun (not) trying out flamen... (in reply to Jon Boyes)

I bought my second hand Valeriano Bernal with a few dents from El Carbonero with a small discount for me of course. I remember going to Mundo Flamenco in London and trying a similar one, I think it was over 1000 pounds, too expensive, I paid 560 pounds. A friend here in England wants to learn flamenco and has asked me to buy a student guitar for him next time I go to Jerez. Don´t really know too much about guitars and prices but I am sure they are much cheaper in Spain, specially if you buy a second hand one from somebody who wants to buy a better one. In the board in the CAF there is always an ad from a famous guitarist from Jerez selling his guitar.

Melchor

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Carpe Diem y no dejes para mañana lo que puedas hacer hoy

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 19 2003 13:51:14

Jon Boyes

Posts: 1377
Joined: Jul. 10 2003

RE: More fun (not) trying out flamen... (in reply to Melchor)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Melchor

I bought my second hand Valeriano Bernal with a few dents from El Carbonero with a small discount for me of course. I remember going to Mundo Flamenco in London and trying a similar one, I think it was over 1000 pounds, too expensive, I paid 560 pounds.

Thats more like it..

Whats the CAF, Melcgor, and what/where is El carbonero?

Jim - good idea to contact Danny, I remember him but he seems to have disappeared off the internet flamenco scene. I'll try that email (thanks Simon).

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 19 2003 13:58:04

Escribano

Posts: 6416
Joined: Jul. 6 2003
From: England, living in Italy

RE: More fun (not) trying out flamen... (in reply to Melchor)

Good point, Melchor - I guess there could be a few guitarists at the festival open to trading up their guitars if Jon made them a cash offer (just don't flash the stuff around too much). I may even do so myself, in which case, Jon might want to buy my Bernal - £450 new - but nearer £600 in the UK. The one you have is probably of the Prodigio family, ebony fingerboard, triple piece back.

When you look Jon, ignore the tuners, they are cheap and nasty on a lot of guitars, sometimes they also have plastic nuts and saddles. They can all be replaced for better quality items for about £50 and make a huge difference to playability e.g. Schallers with ebony buttons are nice.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 19 2003 14:22:38

Melchor

Posts: 87
Joined: Sep. 1 2003
From: Jeré

RE: More fun (not) trying out flamen... (in reply to Jon Boyes)

John CAF stands for Centro Andaluz de Flamenco ant it is located in Jerez. There you can do research on flamenco, watch videos, listen to recordings, photocopy tabs , etc.. with free entrance. El Carbonero is my guitar teacher in Jerez. I created a website for him www.escuelaguitarracarbonero.com He sells guitars as wellto his students.

Simon if you went to buy a guitar to somebody from Jerez I would recomend somebody Spanish, preferebly from Jerez bought it for you. They have the feeling that "guiris" come with a lot of money to spend. I can give you a hand on this.

Melchor

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Carpe Diem y no dejes para mañana lo que puedas hacer hoy

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 19 2003 14:38:56

Escribano

Posts: 6416
Joined: Jul. 6 2003
From: England, living in Italy

RE: More fun (not) trying out flamen... (in reply to Melchor)

quote:

Simon if you went to buy a guitar to somebody from Jerez I would recomend somebody Spanish, preferebly from Jerez bought it for you.

That would be you then?

I know I owe you some thoughts on our recent conversations. I have stopped work for the holidays, so keep an eye out for it in the next week or two.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 19 2003 15:01:32