Arppegio

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Arppegio

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MARTINH

Posts: 26
Joined: Oct. 27 2005

Arppegio

Hi to one and all

Just wondering how long it takes to get to a good speed on this.
When you hear a good player its sounds almost unbroken in sound, very
rounded for want of a better word.
I know the more you play the better it gets but just wondered if there is
a trick or two to perhaps help.

Cheers to all

Martin

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 1 2006 14:02:47

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 1 2006 15:13:54

Miguel de Maria

Posts: 3532
Joined: Oct. 20 2003
From: Phoenix, AZ

RE: Arppegio (in reply to MARTINH)

control ----> speed

don't rush it, just strive for control over every sound, in rhythm, without strain. If you make precision your goal every single day, you will eventually have all the speed you need.

If you flout this advice, you'll flounder...

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 1 2006 15:33:20

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 1 2006 15:41:40

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 1 2006 15:42:44

Miguel de Maria

Posts: 3532
Joined: Oct. 20 2003
From: Phoenix, AZ

RE: Arppegio (in reply to MARTINH)

Neal,
could be. Whatever means it takes, I think. One thing is when you really pin down good players, they all mention slow play and striving for control. In my own playing, I have found it to be essential. It's almost like magic--you really focus and work hard on that, and one day you find out you can play fast. The alternative, hacking at the guitar with the metrnome, doesn't work. That's how careers are failed.

I might have told this story, but our best flamenco in town, named Miguel Rodriguez, was messing around with a guitar, and a bass player, Simon Ames, took it. He said, "I can't get the tremolo right." And started playing a sloppy Recuerdos del Alhambra. Miguel took the guitar and played it, very slow, maybe one note every foottap. Simon took it back and played it slow for about two measures, then sped it back up to full tempo, shaking his head.

I said to Miguel, "You tell everyone to play it slow, but no one ever really does. If people actually played it slow like you said, there would be a lot more guitarists, don't you think?" "Yes."

I think that what slow practice about is really focus. I think that it is FOCUS that is what is essential to guitar or anything else. Using that big hunk of gray matter (we have a lot up there), but we have to use it right. It's like when you take a magnifying glass, you can burn an ant with just the sun's rays (not that I would of course). I think that what slow practice does is allow your nervous system to solidly internalize what you are doing. Don't be thinking about your football team or your job, you have to be thinking and magnifying your brain power on the guitar.

This is what I've noticed from watching and talking to great players, no matter how "talented" they are, they are borderline obessive compulsive about this sort of thing. I think one reason a lot of great players are asses is this kind of singleminded focus, regular people just can't identify. As a friend of mine said to me, "I bet Paco is a ****!"

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 1 2006 15:47:59

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 1 2006 15:55:42

Miguel de Maria

Posts: 3532
Joined: Oct. 20 2003
From: Phoenix, AZ

RE: Arppegio (in reply to Guest)

Romerito,
we're in agreement, I think. What I meant was how guys will start slow and just keep cranking up the metronome until they're way out of control, as a daily practice method. I think at least half of all practice should be with a metronome.
at least...

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 1 2006 15:57:34

mkhn

Posts: 37
Joined: Mar. 2 2006

RE: Arppegio (in reply to MARTINH)

Romerito and Miguel,

How do you practice slowly or learn a brand new song with the metronome? My instructor keeps telling to stay away from the metronome. He's an a really old school flamenco guitarist. Perhaps you have heard of him, Mariano Cordoba from Madrid. He'a about 83 now, but dont let the age fool you. When's he's playing he still rips.

He keeps telling me to just start slow, play in time synching to my tapping foot. Am I missing a big piece of study, buy not using a metronome?

So I guess two questions:
1) how do you use a metronome
2) is not using a metronome really hurting my progress?

Thanks!

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 1 2006 22:50:35

Miguel de Maria

Posts: 3532
Joined: Oct. 20 2003
From: Phoenix, AZ

RE: Arppegio (in reply to MARTINH)

The problem with tapping the foot is you will tend to slow and quicken your foot with the music, but not notice it. The point is to attain an inviolate sense of timing.

I would say you need to get the stuff under your fingers by practicing the motions thoughtfully and without tempo, and then learn to play them at slow tempos with the metronome. When they feel very secure, play them at slow tempos longer. Eventually you can crank it up.

I think not using a metronome, rhythm machine, or dancers as a sense of time outside of yourself, will hurt you. Ricardo said he saw Paco de Lucia had a metronome in his guitar case.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 1 2006 23:10:18

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 1 2006 23:45:25

nickeyg

Posts: 56
Joined: Jun. 16 2005

RE: Arppegio (in reply to MARTINH)

Going back to the original question I think Romerito was correct about planting. The two types were discussed by Ricardo a couple of weeks ago in some other post. But I think practicing slow with a metronome is most beneficial if the technique is correct i.e. planting.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 1 2006 23:57:36

mkhn

Posts: 37
Joined: Mar. 2 2006

RE: Arppegio (in reply to MARTINH)

Romerito and Miguel,

Thanks for the advice. I'm going to continue this in a separate thread as I think its a beneficial topic and you guys have tons of great knowledge.

NickeyG, sorry for hijacking the thread.

Cheers,

Mike

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 2 2006 0:16:02

DoctorX2k2

Posts: 211
Joined: Jun. 14 2006
From: Quebec City, Canada

RE: Arppegio (in reply to MARTINH)

I've always been under the impression that to create adaptation, you needed to "push the enveloppe". I just started working my aperggios (just reached Graf-Martinez vol.2) and what I do is write a practicing tab in Guitar Pro then use the speed trainer to find out my breaking point, where I can no longer play relaxed and synched and I train from -50% to +20% speed at a 3% increment and repeat the whole tab 4 times before the speed increases by that 3%. The whole thing last about 10 minutes depending on speed... then I take a 5 minutes break and start over again, then swicth to a new sequence. I've seen a lot of progress, but since I'm only a beginner, I guess it's normal. Playing with audio support (GP5 playing the tab) really helps synching, at least for me.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 2 2006 1:15:59

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 2 2006 3:09:03

Ricardo

Posts: 14825
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Arppegio (in reply to Guest)

quote:

ALAWAYS practice with a metronome
ALWAYS practice slowly. Even when your playing improves it is still a good idea to practice very slowly.
ALWAYS practice everyday. Consistency is a very important factor.

Also, use a mirror. If you know what planting (sequential and full) is, make sure you are doing that. It is efficient and helps to get a more Flamenco attack(as oppose to classical although it is used in classical as well) If you don't know what it is get Scott Tenants "Pumping Nylon"
It is for classical guitarist but you can apply Flamenco technique to everything he says.

That and this:

quote:

Another thing to think about is playin only one beats worth and the next beat. For example, 1e+a 2. Then two beats worth. 1e+a 2e+a 3. When you have mastered small chunks then you can string them together and make a big chunk or a compas. THen you string multiple compases together and so on.

If you have mastered a small chunk practice the chunks you haven't mastered. I put my drum machin or compas cd on and practice beats 3-6 for example. Then beats 6-9. In this way you learn how to play "off" the compas. Not to be confused with "out" of compas.

Stuff I have been reitteratting forever, almost word for word. I mean these topics come up over and over, but it is good to have another like mind in this matter.

One more thing about metronome/foottap. I have heard students and even some "professionals", practicing with it wrong. Hard to say what I mean exactly without a demo, but it does not magically help you improve unless you understand HOW to work with it. Foot tap is good if it is even. Good to learn to tap foot with the metronome. Playing notes right on the click means you can't hear the click.

Ricardo

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 2 2006 8:37:46

Hugh

Posts: 130
Joined: Jul. 27 2006

RE: Arppegio (in reply to MARTINH)

Hi Martin. I just purchased a really good tutor through a site I found a couple of weeks ago.
The book shows you how you make the mistakes in the first place, and why you need to rectify them or you will never get very far in respect of good arpeggio's.

The site is...............www.guitarprinciples.com/index.html

I've just started using the book, and I can see right away where I've been going wrong right from the start of my guitar studies.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 2 2006 8:44:30

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 2 2006 8:48:23