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 RE: Flamenco and Respect? (in reply to Guest)
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Hey Romerito, if u could describe ottmar in one word, what would that word be?...o.k, use two words if u like. 
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Date Oct. 30 2006 9:44:07
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Guest
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RE: Flamenco and Respect? (in reply to Florian)
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i didnt read the hole thread either, rons post was just tooooo lllooooooong.....its got to grab in the first paragraph or u lost me...sorry
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Date Oct. 30 2006 9:51:17
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Guest
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RE: Flamenco and Respect? (in reply to Guest)
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quote:
I hope people will like my playing more than they like my posts
i like your posts
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Date Oct. 30 2006 9:53:34
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Ron.M
Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland
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RE: Flamenco and Respect? (in reply to Guest)
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quote:
GOD I HATE HOW EVERYTHING HAS TO BE SO POLITICALLY CORRECT
Yeah, I hate this "walking on eggshells" thing too.
I try to be tactful and respectful if I'm addressing someone personally, but if I'm speaking my mind in general about something, I prefer just to say what I think, rather than dilute it and confuse the meaning.
Sometimes I write stuff and then think later, "Oh Jeez...maybe I've gone over the top there"..
Luckily, not a lot of people seem to get upset though...maybe it's because they've got to know my style by now and know I would never mock or gratuitously ridicule a fellow student/enthusiast.
I like Ricardo's style of never putting down other artists, in fact I try to take a leaf out of his book now in that respect.
If someone likes Manitas or something, then it's up to them.
I won't put him down, but I will make it clear why I prefer other guitarists.
However, if I had a student wanting to learn Flamenco and he told me he had a bunch of his CDs and was trying to learn some stuff from them, then it would be my duty to tell him to put them away in a cupboard somewhere. (IMO  )
cheers
Ron
_____________________________
A good guitar might be a good guitar
But it takes a woman to break your heart
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Date Oct. 30 2006 9:59:03
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Guest
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RE: Flamenco and Respect? (in reply to Guest)
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c'mon Romerito, stop beating around the bush just say whats on your mind...ottmar blows.
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Date Oct. 30 2006 10:05:15
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Mark2
Posts: 1872
Joined: Jul. 12 2004
From: San Francisco
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RE: Flamenco and Respect? (in reply to Guest)
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Hey guy,
What is it about Ottmar's music that is flamenco? His guitar and the rumba strum-that's it. His music is pop played on a flamenco guitar. He didn't rape flamenco-he has nothing to do with flamenco. He took one element of it-the strum, and used it to support his pop music. His background is in top 40 electric guitar. The fact is he was in the right time at the right place, something I am sure about, because I was in that time and place too. But for a twist of fate and some personal choices, it could be me or any one of dozens of others all the mis guided flamencos would be hating. So I know all about Ottmar envy, and you seem to have at least a mild case of it. Which is also mis-guided, because unless you were writing and recording pop rumbas in 1990, you had no chance to make the money, gain the success, and the hate, OL has.
And in those days, you needed quite a bit of money to make a record. There were no G5's and pro tools. Just a 2" tape machine, an engineer, and a 40.00 per hour bill. Then of course you had to have the contacts to get your record heard.
I'd go so far as to say that Chus' attempt to cash in on the rumba pop thing is more unoriginal than Ottmar's ground breaking(seems funny to write that, but it's true) first record. Pop is not Chus' culture, it's Ottmar's. I'm not talking about Spanish rumba, but pop music played on flamenco guitar. Spanish rumba has never broken on US radio. GK's is as close as it's come. And I say that as someone who also studied with Chus and am full of nothing but respect for his amazing flamenco playing. Do you think Chus had nothing to do with Ottmar's involvement with his record? I don't know, but would guess he did.
Ottmar is not the first instrumentalist to make a ton of money without major league chops. Mislabeling his first record seems to be his major sin. That's hardly constitutes the rape of flamenco or it's culture.
quote:
ORIGINAL: romerito
Well,
first off we are talking about the same thing. He's got two albums out. One of them was remixed by ottmar. quote:
Then Chuscales put out another "nuevo flamenco" album that was recorded in Madrid, and (IMHO) sucked. So if you think ottmars got great instincts read your above quote. It's the same album with ottmars grubby fingerprints on it. This post is Flamenco and respect. How much more disrepectful can you get? You know ottmar overdubbed himself onto that recording. The flamenco stuff is incredible. Two tanguillos an alegria and a minera in C#.
Chusco feels disrespected. His culture, yet ottmar makes trillions and chusco is 100 times the guitarist ottmar could ever hope to be.
Chusco was doing pop rumba. He wanted to put the Flamenco back into rumba(Yes i know it is from cuba and "flamencoized) but ottmar learned flamencoized rumba then took the flamenco out of it.
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Date Oct. 30 2006 16:54:29
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Miguel de Maria
Posts: 3532
Joined: Oct. 20 2003
From: Phoenix, AZ
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RE: Flamenco and Respect? (in reply to Guest)
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It's okay, Mark, Rome is addicted and I bet he reads these posts even if he summons the willpower not to respond. I know how it is :)
It's kind of strange to me how people choose their idols, though. I mean, right now, my favorite guitarist is Baden Powell, but I'm not going to defend every choice he made or go off on how he got "left behind" although he was probably the most bada--s of them all (in the Bossa movement for example). I love Paco,but I'm not going to start talking s--t about John and Al for daring to share the stage with him.
I don't know how much of Encuentros is Chuscales and how much Ottmar, but it's a good record and it sold pretty well. Isn't that more important than some minor details about who's playing on it? Ry Cooder had the temerity to play some annoying slide guitar on the Buena Vista Social Club album but it didn't diminish the great accomplishment and the revitalization of some septegenarian's careers?
By the way, I listened to a bit of Ottmar's new stuff lately and his picado is pretty good now. Listening to his old stuff, it's pretty silly, but he can smoke me now! :)
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Date Oct. 30 2006 19:29:03
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Ricardo
Posts: 14832
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC
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RE: Flamenco and Respect? (in reply to Guest)
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quote:
I like Ricardo's style of never putting down other artists, in fact I try to take a leaf out of his book now in that respect.
I am not proud to say this, but I really feel that at some of my gigs where I play guitar duet or whatever, not real flamenco, that I am "raping" poor Ottmar.
Romerito, if you have any vids of yourself on the computer, like a wmv or quicktime movie, AVI, whatever, you can easily load to youtube. They give you like 100megabites and 10 minutes, free. I think that is easiest.
I am still confused about which album Ottmar messed up for Chusco. I have one with Omayra's picture inside. Ottmar produced it, and there is a quote on there about how "chusco came to me for help", but he does not play on it, and there is no flamenco either. EDIT-OK I figured it out. I don't know which cut but it says "Ottmar appears courtasy of....", so I guess it was the album I have that was messed up. But he did thank Ottmar in the notes.
And yi yi has an album too, very nice pop tunes he wrote with a couple flamencoish numbers. But those 2 could make a good puro album if they wanted. Actually they SHOULD do it.
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Date Oct. 31 2006 3:58:24
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