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NEW POLL-Do you think people are too rough on Juan Martin?   You are logged in as Guest
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[Poll]

NEW POLL-Do you think people are too rough on Juan Martin?
YES
  84% (32)
NO
  15% (6)


Total Votes : 38
(last vote on : Feb. 28 2008 11:10:04) 
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NEW POLL-Do you think people are too... 
Do you think people are too rough on Juan Martin?
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 19 2006 1:24:03
 
Florian

Posts: 9282
Joined: Jul. 14 2003
From: Adelaide/Australia

RE: NEW POLL-Do you think people are... (in reply to Guest) 
hmm why is that i wonder , i mean we never have this discussions about gerardo, paco, manolo, riqueni, tomatito.

we must not be jelous of them just Juan :-)


i think Juan gets enough respect.

than again we might just pick on him because we know its a eazy target, who knows , who cares.

noone has the answers but we just all have to accept that we all have different taste and just like one has the right o like him and praize him on the net another has the right to not like him and question his praizes.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 19 2006 2:16:39
 
sabo

 

Posts: 32
Joined: Aug. 15 2006
From: Poland

RE: NEW POLL-Do you think people are... (in reply to Florian) 
quote:

hmm why is that i wonder , i mean we never have this discussions about gerardo, paco, manolo, riqueni, tomatito.


coz they didn't publish books to teach!
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 19 2006 7:51:31
 
Anders Eliasson

Posts: 5780
Joined: Oct. 18 2006
 

RE: NEW POLL-Do you think people are... (in reply to sabo) 
Come on.

Leave JM in peace.

He has made A LOT of people sound flamenco after a short time, making them continue with a smile, so IMHO, he´s work etc. has been of great value

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Blog: http://news-from-the-workshop.blogspot.com/
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 19 2006 8:04:20
 
John O.

Posts: 1723
Joined: Dec. 16 2005
From: Seeheim-Jugenheim, Germany

RE: NEW POLL-Do you think people are... (in reply to Guest) 
There is little good learning material for beginners of the flamenco guitar out there. Anyone who's never played guitar that has a try with the Gerardo Nunez Encuentro video will give up within a day. It's like giving a book of Shakespeare to a little kid. Juan Martin is like the Jim Henson of flamenco, and that's okay.

He should get some respect. He's made more for himself than a lot of us and in that sense can't be so stupid.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 19 2006 8:25:53
 
el ted

 

Posts: 466
Joined: Nov. 13 2003
 

RE: NEW POLL-Do you think people are... (in reply to Guest) 
One thing doesn't appear to have crossed the mind of the JM critics, is that all the abuse you have heaped on him could also affect the reputaion of THIS WEBSITE!
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 19 2006 10:40:29
Guest

RE: NEW POLL-Do you think people are... (in reply to el ted) 
How the opinion of a few people gonna affect this website, there over 1000 members here. Besides, as you can see the poll is telling us that people in the forum think that maybe people are being too ruff on jm.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 19 2006 11:16:43
 
duende

Posts: 3053
Joined: Dec. 15 2003
From: Sweden

RE: NEW POLL-Do you think people are... (in reply to Guest) 
It´s not Juans fault that his books/videos and cd´s sell. And that people goes to his conserts.

If i made a book and a cd and happend the sell a million copys you´d all be on my ass.


If your not as good as Paco,vicente,Gerardo or Tomatito you obviously have to run and hide if you for some reason become popular.

..you don´t have to like his style and **** but he (juan) did not make his carrér. "we,us,guitarstudents" did.

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This is hard stuff!
Don't give up...
And don't make it a race.
Enjoy the ray of sunshine that comes with every new step in knowledge.

RON
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 19 2006 11:31:19
 
el ted

 

Posts: 466
Joined: Nov. 13 2003
 

RE: NEW POLL-Do you think people are... (in reply to Guest) 
Dominic,
A reasonable point. BUT this thread has already been read by 1660no people. This thread could be read by thousands more people over the years. Posting here is not like writing a note in the school magazine, who knows who will read this thread?
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 19 2006 11:48:28
 
XXX

Posts: 4400
Joined: Apr. 14 2005
 

RE: NEW POLL-Do you think people are... (in reply to Guest) 
I dont like his stuff. I dont like militant/fanatic fans either, who want to dictate that he is such a good player and blabla... and the he has done "much for flamenco" ... so what? If someone doesnt like the music of someone, does he suddenly begin to like it when its successfulll??? .........no.
Thus Juan Martin was NEVER the controversy. You can like him or not. Both is just a concidence. A matter of taste as such.

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Фламенко
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 19 2006 12:15:16
 
Florian

Posts: 9282
Joined: Jul. 14 2003
From: Adelaide/Australia

RE: NEW POLL-Do you think people are... (in reply to el ted) 
el ted i agree with you , perhaps we should leave Juan alone , i mean we have all said enough,
but i am not sure why u think that saying we dont like juans playing or whatever will influence the reputation of this foro ?

we are 1680 of the cd buying , dvds/books buying public, i am not sure why u think that expressing the opinion about one of them will reflect badly on us.

is like telling 200000 voters they voted for the wrong president, when the majority votes , there is no wrong decision , is the say of the people.

and btw, Juan has his supporters as you can see, but u cant stop the free will of people and they right to like what they like and dont like what they dont like, or control the fact that they wanna express that, he wanted to be in the public eye, great, brilliant we are the public, and we are not all pollitically correct and fair, we are what we are , as fair as any public can be, him and his die hard fans need to deal with it and accept it or if the pressure is too much, get out of the public eye.

Like it or not we are the public, we dont speak for all of it but we speak for some of it, we not here to protect juans reputation, if he wants to put cds out the he should be prepared to take in the criticism as well as the praizes from the public, simple as that.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 19 2006 16:38:59
 
veet

 

Posts: 231
Joined: Nov. 29 2004
From: L.A.

RE: NEW POLL-Do you think people are... (in reply to Guest) 
Who cares? His teaching tools have been well marketed, and he's entitled to his money as a result.
But my observation is he seems to be of zero influence except among English-speakers.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 19 2006 18:39:20
Guest

RE: NEW POLL-Do you think people are... (in reply to veet) 
C,mon el ted, a the end of the day its only opions. Thats what a forum does, put discussions on the table and everyone can have their say. The fact is juan is very sucessful and no one can take that away from him no matter how much critism he cops. sure hes really copped a beuty in that other thread, but for every critism he got he also had someone to defend him.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 20 2006 0:36:11
 
Graeme

 

Posts: 30
Joined: Apr. 2 2004
From: Lincoln, UK

RE: NEW POLL-Do you think people are... (in reply to Guest) 
These JM threads might actually arrive somewhere if we considered JM(performer) completely separately from JM(tutor).

It's one thing to perform music that inspires us to listen to it. It is another thing entirely to inspire people to pick up an instrument and then enable them to create music themselves.

I wouldn't have been playing "flamenco" for three years now without JM's books/DVDs. Reasons? 1. I find his instructional arrangements very good to listen to; 2. I then find that they are actually playable.

I am not a purist. For "flamenco" above, read: "having fun imitating a guitar style that I love". It takes all sorts...

Graeme
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 20 2006 8:10:13
 
PacoPaella

Posts: 163
Joined: Nov. 7 2004
 

RE: NEW POLL-Do you think people are... (in reply to Guest) 
sometimes i wonder if people just envy JM. I mean all this bs about his stuff not being deep or some such...after all he is not Liebert, and honestly i havent seen many videos here that could technically challenge the skills of Martin. Coincidentially none of his critics play in a league high enough to really look down at him, imho, they usually just come up with "Compare him to Paco" or so. Its like "OK so you are stronger than me but my brother can whoop yer ass!".

I am not owning a single JM CD (though i happen to know his stuff). I rather listen to Vicente myself. However i respect JM and i wish i had his abilities and success.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 20 2006 12:37:52
 
seanm

 

Posts: 169
Joined: Apr. 5 2005
From: Halifax, Nova Scotia

RE: NEW POLL-Do you think people are... (in reply to Guest) 
Whenever I see guitarists bashing other guitarists (or any true professional for that matter) ... it always strikes me that the great ones never seem to trash others (professtional or amateur). They don't need to. They are above that and secure in their own abilities. If someone plays poorly, offer encouragment. If the play well, offer praise. If they "sell out", play 12 tone, wear costumes in stage, that's their thing. It doesn't affect me.

As an aside, I was at a concert where a great guitarist played a Rodrigo concerto. I saw a person I knew there and afterwards they said how much they liked the concert and that they had also seem Jesse Cook recently and just loved it. They were beaming with joy at these performances ... why would anyone want to take that away from someone else by trashing the player. I don't get it (well I do ... its ego and insecurity, I assume). My two cents.

Sean
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 20 2006 13:39:53
 
koella

Posts: 2194
Joined: Sep. 10 2005
From: holland

RE: NEW POLL-Do you think people are... (in reply to Guest) 
@Paco paella. What's all that nonsense about. I speak for myself here:
I'm working on a lot of things like "tone",aire, compas. And I will probably be doing that for the rest of my life. Hey, and just for fun.

In the meanwhile, I rather not take JM's playing as example for my flamenco-struggle . Because there's a lot of flamenco parameters I don't hear in his playing. Is that forbidden ?

@Seanm. Of course proffessional players don't bash each other ! For they are in a much more vulnerable position then me, the audience. They could be bashed themselves, or worse, they could bump in to each other at some gig. So for bussines sake, it's better to keep there ( negative ) opinions to their own.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 20 2006 14:16:57
 
PacoPaella

Posts: 163
Joined: Nov. 7 2004
 

RE: NEW POLL-Do you think people are... (in reply to Guest) 
@seanm

thats exactly what i meant to say, only my limited english abilities kept me from doing so. Its really only those slightly above average (but far from being really good) that usually feel inclined to point out all the deficiencies of other artists. I have seen the same thing happen in sport, in chess and at work. Those who are really good dont waste their time on that destructive nonsense.

@koella

dunno what you mean. Maybe you should carefully re-read my post, and also sean's.

Good for you if you are in a position to find more weakness in JM's play than in yours. I certainly cannot say the same about me. I saw some of his performances on youTube and i have to say, respect to his technique. No faked audio, no tricks or a dozen takes on video, but just live performance on TV.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 20 2006 14:56:01
 
koella

Posts: 2194
Joined: Sep. 10 2005
From: holland

RE: NEW POLL-Do you think people are... (in reply to PacoPaella) 
quote:

ORIGINAL: PacoPaella
dunno what you mean. Maybe you should carefully re-read my post, and also sean's.


If you don't know what I mean then maybe you should carefully read mine instead

I don't suggest that I'm playing better then JM for christ sake.
Only the things I like to work on I don't hear in his way of playing. It doesn't inspire me. Get it ?

So in short: me practising > me want a good example > me don't like example
JM >
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 20 2006 15:14:43
 
PacoPaella

Posts: 163
Joined: Nov. 7 2004
 

RE: NEW POLL-Do you think people are... (in reply to koella) 
quote:

ORIGINAL: koella

quote:

ORIGINAL: PacoPaella
dunno what you mean. Maybe you should carefully re-read my post, and also sean's.


If you don't know what I mean then maybe you should carefully read mine instead

I don't suggest that I'm playing better then JM for christ sake.
Only the things I like to work on I don't hear in his way of playing. It doesn't inspire me. Get it ?

So in short: me practising > me want a good example > me don't like example
JM >

Hmm...so?

My post (as this whole thread) does not refer to people who dont like JM, or who think ther are better guitarists than JM. Its about people who seem to have dedicated their life to screwing up JM's reputation and to convince everyone that is is the personalized anti christ. If you are not one of them, then i didnt mean to describe you in my previous post. I thought that was obvious.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 20 2006 15:29:28
 
koella

Posts: 2194
Joined: Sep. 10 2005
From: holland

RE: NEW POLL-Do you think people are... (in reply to Guest) 
Uh..allright. I understand.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 20 2006 15:43:16
 
Florian

Posts: 9282
Joined: Jul. 14 2003
From: Adelaide/Australia

RE: NEW POLL-Do you think people are... (in reply to koella) 
PacoPaella


U got me courious now, who exactly do you think that has dedicated they'r life to destroing JMs reputation ?


and who says u have to be an actor to be able to say you dont like a movie.

personally i think its really silly insulting forum member possible friends who you see everyday here (who might have possible helped you in the past or could do so in the future) who are expressing theyr opinions over some guy youl never meet or even gives a crap that you exist or even knows this conversation is going on. Give me a brake, you dont like everey single thing you see and hear, why is it so hard to belive that others dont either ? its a discussion forum.

Its like me sitting and having a beer with you, i tell you i dont like TOm Cruise as an actor and you say' Shut up , youre just a try hard, when you can act like him then criticize him".

U know i didnt start this thread and i wasent even plannig on getting involved in it (read above) but when i see people putting other forum memebers down only because they expressing theyr opinion...I cant shut up.

Belive me any one who knows .. knows if they dont say anything is not because they dont know or dont think it but is because theyr beeing diplomatic and cant be botherd having this argument all the time. Every single flamenco dancer guitarist singer here or from Spain i talk to says the same thing. the only ones that dont know is those who dont network with other flamencos outside the internet and only play guitar or the ones that are in some remote place in the world here the only cds u can buy in the stores is Juan. Or they are too old and refuse to look at the new stuff and Juan makes them feel like they understand it.
certanly not in Spain and certanly not in any Flamenco dance school whos teacher has been to spain in the last 20 years.
so u are fighting a losing batlle because besides on the internet forums like this the feeling is exactly the same. he makes good beginner dvds and books thats about it.

since u ask..

no i dont think i am a better guitarist but i do have eyes and ears, i respect flamenco , Juan is not flamenco is one of the people in it not necesarly the most talented one but one who has made a huge name for himself trough beginner books, thats it. If it wasent Juan there could have been a million other guitarists. hes just the first one that did the best beginner book first.

quote:

i havent seen many videos here that could technically challenge the skills of Martin

willing to put your money where your mouth is ? lets put an end to this once and far all

i dont think his technique is that amazing but its eazy make it seem so with eazy music, pick any Juan Martin Solo give me the tab, and i will play it for you exactly as he does ( ofcourse minus the 20000 dollar guitar and studios sound he has at his disposal), i mean it. mibe after that I can get me statue in Poland
and i am not even that good...do it, it might seam like a an ambitious statment but its not really and i wouldnt make it if i didnt think i was capable of doing it, i may be hot bloded but i am not stupid. You see a couple of videos people make in theyr pijamas at 3 am in the morning in theyr living room when they just really developing ideas before they go to bed and think that you know what they can and cant do ?


and when i do i want you to say it with me " Every forum member here has to right to express they'r view on any cd they purchase with out me trowing theyr own abilities back in theyr own face and making them feel unwordy to do so everytime they do".

wanna know who i respect ? i respect those arent techniaclly brilliant but have the balls to upload audios and videos here, and take criticizm and wanna improve, instead of those who are so paranoid of god forbid beeing criticised that they never ever upload, its a good way of mantaining status, and i respect all my fellow forum members who respect eachother i wouldnt put any of them down just because they say they dont like some guitarist i never meet.
I dont care who Juan is , this forum members are in my life, are my friends and to me they come first , after that anyone else i dont know.

They have encouraged me when i needed it , i encouraged them when they needed it, they helped me when i needed it etc.
u wanna help flamenco ? this is flamenco right here, with your fellow forum members, not in some book u buy for 50 bucs.

and heres the finall kicker if god forbid you got sick tomarow i can guarantee you that i would care more about it than Juan would, same goes for anyone else of you so dont be silly and insult eachother over the sake of some guitarist who dosent know u exist.

god damn it beeing this right always makes me horny...back in 5 minutes.

_____________________________
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 20 2006 19:58:45
Guest

RE: NEW POLL-Do you think people are... (in reply to Florian) 
LOL...dude, that has to be the longest post yourve done yet
quote:

pick any Juan Martin Solo give me the tab, and i will play it for you exactly as he does ( ofcourse minus the 20000 dollar guitar and studios sound he has at his disposal), i mean it. mibe after that I can get me statue in Poland

what about 'la feria'?

Seriously though, even though its simple material you still have to put in the time to learn it. Why would you learne some crap you dont wanna play when you could be spending that time on a falsetta you like?
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 21 2006 2:09:49
 
Florian

Posts: 9282
Joined: Jul. 14 2003
From: Adelaide/Australia

RE: NEW POLL-Do you think people are... (in reply to Guest) 
It would be worth it, Always talk talk talk talk its boring ,cmon then lets do it, lets make it fun, lets see some actions.

anyone can just say whatever they like. I am saying his technique is nothing special and i am willing to prove it, surely if a nobody like me can do it it mustnt be.

if i do it then hopefully i can earn the right to not like his music

what upsets me is not juan martin or people who like him but people jump in and insult people they know here over him.

_____________________________
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 21 2006 2:41:42
Guest

RE: NEW POLL-Do you think people are... (in reply to Florian) 
are you hearin' this tluckez (is that how u spell it), give the man his peace!!
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 21 2006 2:45:13
 
Miguel de Maria

Posts: 3532
Joined: Oct. 20 2003
From: Phoenix, AZ

RE: NEW POLL-Do you think people are... (in reply to Guest) 
tluck isn't really a forum member, he just comes here to defend Juan Martin's honor.

By the way, this seems an appropriate time to announce that MY CD IS READY!!! It just came in today, but I had a gig and wasn't able to go down to pick it up. So I have to wait until Monday.

I'm going to upload one of the songs on it so people can hear it. And I invite tluckez to come and tell me what Juan Martin grade it is.

Warning: it's not really flamenco. There's a few JM-level flamenco pieces on it, but it's really more of an "easy latin lover listening" album. However, I look much sexier than any other latin guitarist on the cover. Tell all of your Ottmar- Esteban- JM- loving friends to buy one!

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Arizona Wedding Music Guitar
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 21 2006 4:41:54
 
Florian

Posts: 9282
Joined: Jul. 14 2003
From: Adelaide/Australia

RE: NEW POLL-Do you think people are... (in reply to Miguel de Maria) 
Hey :-) congratulations Miguel i am looking foward to hearing it.

hope it does well for you.

_____________________________
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 21 2006 7:47:43
 
Doitsujin

Posts: 5078
Joined: Apr. 10 2005
 

RE: NEW POLL-Do you think people are... (in reply to Guest) 
I´m very interested in hearing it, too!!
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 21 2006 7:53:43
 
Florian

Posts: 9282
Joined: Jul. 14 2003
From: Adelaide/Australia

RE: NEW POLL-Do you think people are... (in reply to Guest) 
quote:

easy latin lover listening


ive always said if u wanna make money outside Spain with a cd, thats the best kind to do, smart move.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 21 2006 7:57:21
 
Doitsujin

Posts: 5078
Joined: Apr. 10 2005
 

RE: NEW POLL-Do you think people are... (in reply to Guest) 
Look at Juan Martins homepage and compare it to every other guitarrists homepage.

What do you see?

You see a big commercial site for his stuff, but not a musician site.

Doesnt that explains all?

Hes good in managing his stuff. By the way, I would do the same. But its too late. All the traditional beginners stuff is already wrote doen by him.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 21 2006 9:40:07
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